These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A question regarding the privacy of EVE-mail.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#161 - 2015-02-16 14:48:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?

just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client


So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it?

At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get.

it looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users. in eve, it is. that's not obvious. the api system is not obvious. i don't expect people to know about such out-of-the-way things right when they begin the game. that's an unreasonable expectation

it's not at all dumb behaviour to be ignorant of some things when you begin the game
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#162 - 2015-02-16 14:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?

just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client

Well, it IS a normal mail client. It is easy and quite normal for recipients of email to have their email clients set up to forward all incoming mail to all kinds of places and third party applications. An eve user having an API key set up to forward their mail to third party applications is exactly the same as what a lot of people do with their "real" email.

Do you people run around screaming that Mozilla should remove all options dealing with automatic mail forwarding from Thunderbird, because a recipient might forward your mails to someone else?

Quote:
It looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users.

This is the dumbest thing I have read all day. Sending information to other users is LITERALLY the purpose of a mail client.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#163 - 2015-02-16 14:50:24 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I just read that apparently full API access allows corporations to read the EVE-mail of potential new recruits.

I wonder if that includes any EVE-mails sent to that person, or being quoted by that person. Question


Yep. Any evemail.


That's interesting, as nobody CCP warned me that full APIs would compromise my privacy if I as much as sent a evemail to someone and that someone intended to join a player corporation and provided a full API.

Let's say that for some reason, I trust someone and evemail him some personal data, and that someone joins a corporation unaware of what a full API does mean to any personal data being shared through CCP's services...

I really wonder now whether CCP warns of that, somewhere.


You sent your personal info to someone, and then complain that someone might be able to read it via an API call. Do you even realize what you're saying? You yourself released that information. If you didn't want it released, why did you release it? Internetz 101, m8.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#164 - 2015-02-16 14:51:10 UTC
Is it too early for this?

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#165 - 2015-02-16 14:52:17 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy:

- I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them
- I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet
- Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname
- I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it

I consider myself a tech-luddite.

And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to *my* privacy and not just *theirs*.

Specially since there is no warning anywhere.


no warnings anywhere yea,,,,

https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/



yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

CCP wrote:
What is an API key? What do I use it for?

The API key is a private code that identifies your account and allows third party programs and web sites to access information about your characters and corporations. Using this data, such utilities can improve your EVE experience by providing useful functionality such as wallet exports, skill training notifications, and other tools.

Is this safe? Can someone steal my account?

It is safe to provide your API key to applications and web sites as long as you are prepared to allow the application or web site to see your character and corporation information. You can specify which information is accessible for each customizable API key.

Sharing an API key does NOT give people access to your account while sharing your account password would. Therein lies the whole purpose of API keys. An API key only allows the recipient to view your character and corporation data but gives them NO control over it. They are NOT able to log in to the game or post on the forums with the API information. No part of the API key information is in any way generated from your account password - there is no way to calculate your password using this information.

This is the only safe way to give programs and web sites access to your data. Do not give out your account username or password to any person, program, or web site. Please keep in mind that doing so is a violation of the EULA and can lead to account termination.

I still don't like it.

If you are not certain that the web site or program asking for your API key is safe, please do not give it to them! You are responsible for any usage of the information obtained by using your API keys.

I gave someone my API key and now I want them to stop using it!

If you believe that someone is misusing your API key, you can delete it from the list above or simply change the Verification Code. Please note that all programs and web sites that are using your old API key information will no longer be able to access your data unless you provide them with the updated info or a new API key.

You can view API activity on your account by using the API Access Log. If you believe someone is misusing one of your API keys, please change the Verification Code or delete the API key from the list above.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#166 - 2015-02-16 14:52:32 UTC
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Is it too early for this?



no not at all,, if you ask me it's late.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#167 - 2015-02-16 14:53:38 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
This is the dumbest thing I have read all day. Sending information to other uses is LITERALLY the whole purpose of a mail client.

'other' being third-party users. don't be dense.

Quote:
Do you people run around screaming that Mozilla should remove all options dealing with automatic mail forwarding from Thunderbird, because a recipient might forward your mails to someone else?


did i suggest that api functions be removed? no. don't be dense.

did i suggest that most users of mail are aware of the possibility that the intended recipient may do something with the contents of the mail? yes. learn to read.
Jallukola
#168 - 2015-02-16 14:53:41 UTC
That is why you always keep the EVE Mail cleared everytime you move to another corporation, wipe it all and tell contacts to stay in touch via third party.

All posts and mails screencapped and time stamped, including out of EVE, you will not reverse on me.

Might come in handy!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#169 - 2015-02-16 14:55:05 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?

just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client


So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it?

At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get.

it looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users. in eve, it is. that's not obvious. the api system is not obvious. i don't expect people to know about such out-of-the-way things right when they begin the game. that's an unreasonable expectation

it's not at all dumb behaviour to be ignorant of some things when you begin the game


The OP didn't begin the game, he's been here for 6 years.

Still that excuse making is useless. If someone is dumb enough to not understand it's email in a video game, whatever happens is on them. Being old enough to us a computer means being old enough to take at least some responsibility for yourself.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#170 - 2015-02-16 14:56:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#171 - 2015-02-16 14:59:43 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api



I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE.

You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#172 - 2015-02-16 15:01:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The OP didn't begin the game, he's been here for 6 years.

i seriously don't care about the op

Quote:
Still that excuse making is useless. If someone is dumb enough to not understand it's email in a video game

i've said repeatedly that it's not entirely the users' fault if they misinterpret the security of evemail. that implies some fault. i am saying it's an understandable mistake to make, and one that's ok to compensate for. it's not a case of being dumb, it's a case of being ignorant. where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#173 - 2015-02-16 15:02:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api



I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE.

You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness.

evemails can be accessed from the recipient's api. if you ever need me to help you understand eve online, i'm here to help.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#174 - 2015-02-16 15:02:35 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api


most people are stupid.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#175 - 2015-02-16 15:05:45 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api


most people are stupid.

which is a good case for our services being designed to cater to our stupid needs
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#176 - 2015-02-16 15:06:59 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:

where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider


it's the providers fault that someone refused to read ? or it's the providers fault for not explaining it barney style ?

because this is pretty clear.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#177 - 2015-02-16 15:07:53 UTC
If you call someone, they can record your phone call and send it to FOX News. Should phones have warnings about other telephone users?

If you send someone a letter, they can take a BILLION photocopies of it and scatter them all over the continent if they wish. Should mailboxes have warnings that you should not send mail to people you don't trust?

If you send someone an email, they can forward it to their entire contact list and all the mailing lists of the world. Should all computers come with warning stickers about not sending sensitive information to suspicious people?

If you send someone an EVEmail, they can copy paste it to anywhere, forward it to anyone or make it readable by anyone if they wish. Should EVE come with warnings about not trusting random people with sensitive information?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#178 - 2015-02-16 15:08:35 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
yea, how dare they not warn anyone!

most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time in the day to live their damn lives

at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api



I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE.

You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness.

evemails can be accessed from the recipient's api. if you ever need me to help you understand eve online, i'm here to help.


You think you're helping, all who 'think of the (stupid) children' think that. What really helps is telling someone "you are responsible for yourself". Anyone with any brains knew from day one ( day two at the most) that video game email isn't secure in any way , even if the video game company doesn't tell you.

Talking to you is exactly like talking to my kids about this. With one, i decided to let them be hard-headed since he wanted to argue with me. Their is still an....unflattering....picture of him floating around the internet forever.

He is no longer hard-headed on the issue.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#179 - 2015-02-16 15:10:20 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:

where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider


it's the providers fault that someone refused to read ? or it's the providers fault for not explaining it barney style ?

because this is pretty clear.

where most people don't read it before using the evemail service, which i'm willing to bet occurs, yes, it needs to be more obvious. the issue is not comprehending the information, it is an issue of the information being delivered to the users effectively
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#180 - 2015-02-16 15:11:36 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
If you call someone, they can record your phone call and send it to FOX News. Should phones have warnings about other telephone users?

If you send someone a letter, they can take a BILLION photocopies of it and scatter them all over the continent if they wish. Should mailboxes have warnings that you should not send mail to people you don't trust?

If you send someone an email, they can forward it to their entire contact list and all the mailing lists of the world. Should all computers come with warning stickers about not sending sensitive information to suspicious people?

If you send someone an EVEmail, they can copy paste it to anywhere, forward it to anyone or make it readable by anyone if they wish. Should EVE come with warnings about not trusting random people with sensitive information?

if you want to read my posts again, you can go to eve-search and see all the posts made just by me. please do so before replying again, and try to comprehend them this time