EVE General Discussion

I appreciate that you have that perspective, but not every player does. I certainly don't and since I can really only talk about me, I'll use myself as a different example and then hopefully draw a conclusion we can both agree on.

Here's my eveboard: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Scipio_Artelius

Implants are not hidden. They just don't exist and is my remap optimal? I guess clearly not.

And I don't care. When it comes to playing the game, I don't compare myself to other players that started at the same time as me (since that's the only measure of whether gaining more or less SP has any meaning).

I pvp and select targets on the basis of what ships I'm in, what ship they are in, whether they have friends or I do. Do I have links? Are they likely to? Am I using drugs? Can I get the engagement to start under optimal conditions for me, or will they be at an advantage initially? Not a single thing in my own personal decision making comes down to whether I am training skills faster than they are. I don't feel any sense of loss for training at the rate I train at, because I look for targets that I will be competitive against, regardless.

But skill training is still part of my game. I change my queue regularly to meet different goals. Sometimes I use implants, sometimes I don't. I have multiple clones (even if it's not a perfect system, it is what is currently available and I choose to use them) for different pvp fits. I also remap annually based on what my short-term goals are and accept that at different points in the year, my training won't be optimal because I'll switch to something else.

Overalll, I like the complexity of these choices to be made. The challenge of Eve on the whole is what attracts me to the game and in analysing my own play, I play the different elements that present the most challenge and avoid the simple ones.

So, for me personally if the system was made less complex, that would reduce my overall enjoyment of the game.

But I totally appreciate and accept that you have a different view. That you see the rate of SP gain as critical to you and the current system not optimal.

And there is the challenge that the devs face. To, on the whole, produce a game that interests as wide a group of people as possible, while never meeting all of the needs of any single person (that will never happen).

Recently, in my view, the trend has been to simplify and whenever we as players propose changes to systems, we always seem to propose changes that will benefit us individually, while not caring or considering broader effects, or the negatives of our ideas.

That doesn't mean don't propose. We all should, but we should all also speak up when we don't agree. The devs can then make their decisions based on total feedback. Hopefully (for me) that won't always be to simplify choices.


Sure. I agree with that. Those negatives would have significant effect and the idea is flawed.

I don't see how making them removable would upset the market any more than removing them all together though. All options involve change.

The rest of your post I still personally disagree with. It would take more away from the game than it adds in terms of choice for players.

Might not be the best solution but its well balanced.

Considering newbies cant screw themselves by derp remapping ( since there is no remaps )
Encouraging people who just use attribute implants to pvp since they get a ship bouns from using learning implants .
and giving the option to veterans to go balls deep wiith pirate faction set , hardwiring and learning implants .

OK, would you agree to a flat 2000-2200 SP/h instead?

you are just saying hey i don't undock because of them therefore CCP remove them .



finally someone noticed my suggestion i know my suggestion has flaws like the combined boosts of all implants injected might be overpowered.

but hey i don't think you can make everyone happy

I acutally don't care to be honest. If they can't or don't want to remove learning implants they should at least remove attributes. Its just useless pseudo-gameplay crap like clone costs. Do it and get max SP/h or don't and don't get max SP/h. I never did it because I couldn't care less about SP/h.


No I don't. I say that they are just an XP-Boost that doesn't belong to the game and mention the docking thing as a side note.


I'm reading this thread backwards and I'm already sick of your crap. All of your posts are selfish, insulting, passive aggressive and filled with 'arguments' and 'facts' that are just made up by yourself on the go. Pathetic.

That's ok, did you also notice the obvious lies and fake argument posts I aimed those replies at?

in my opinion , removing is not the answer . Encouraging players to undock in them is the answer

[preface]Over the years I have restarted so often I can't even list the "mains" I've had, let alone all the alts, side projects and whatnot, this STILL happens. So from my personal pov it would benefit me if I didn't have to buy them all implants and keep track of their remaps and whatnot. The reason I'm against these ideas is because it's not in the "spirit of EVE" and it doesn't help actual players.


Stated argument for removing learning implants:

- "pvping will be cheaper". Not the case, CCP already stated they will be making new combat related implants which will then become the norm (or at least will be used more) "forcing" others to use them as well. Clone cost will not change. This is also why higher quality 0.0 alliances are pushing for this, they will train faster to their next Scap while sporting funky combat implants, giving them another edge. Their CSM will of course ask for these changes

- "it would help newer players be in 0.0 and pvp more". Not the case, what is actually meant is "it would help lol blobs full of younger players to whelp without cost while they're training up for the next meta, since we didn't figure out that meta ourselves we're kinda behind and thus we'd like them to train faster". The question is if we should push younger players to lol blob alliances where they're taught to follow orders and be a tiny insignificant cog, a worker bee (how apt) in a cubicle. Lol blob alliances who do the "we care for newbies, this would help them" are lying: they don't care for newbies at all, they just care for a continuous stream of new players to boost their numbers. Their CSM will of course ask for these changes

- "people who now sit in station with +5 would actually start pvping". Not the case, people who do that are, by definition, min-maxers or alts. Neither of these will undock till he's "ready" (ie, max skilled or at least having attained a specific SP target). They're not sitting in station because they have +5, they're sitting in station because they haven't reached their goal yet. Nothing will change

- "choices suck, I want max benefit without having to think about it or having to make a risk vs reward assessment". No comment

- "I die a lot because I still haven't learned (after all this time) how not to be really terrible. This would help me". No comment



Implants are fine, they're risk vs reward which is what EVE is about. They're a choice giving different people with different motivations different options for different situations. Choice is good, even if some of those choices would not necessarily be beneficial because choices should come with consequences. On top of that, removing them would create room for (already announced) combat implants which (for reasons stated) will NOT help newer players, they will only help older/richer/established players and groups. There is no valid logical reason to remove implants that isn't short sighted, selfish and/or very anti-newbie.




Stated reasons to remove remaps:

- "newbies might mess it up". Easily solved by a wiki link that pops up when you open your attrib window explaining the dos and don'ts.

- "I just ran out of remaps and I really need one so I'm posting in this thread hoping for change". No comment

- "I just want maxed everything". No comment

- "it's all a bit silly and arbitrary, it's not really a gameplay choice or feature and doesn't add anything of note". I partially agree with that, you could remove remaps and give everyone flat attribs meaning you could learn everything at the same speed (not counting implants). But is that really any different from players choosing a well balanced remap of their own? Doesn't it remove possible choice with its own possible consequences and risk vs reward? Would removing it actually solve anything, realistically?



I see no reason to remove implants and remaps/attribs. All I've read is lies, fake arguments and hidden agendas.

The idea of using forums is to brainstorm your ideas , add and edit any idea you may have missed since others will give you ideas you might miss or don't realize , there is no need to fill GMs mail inbox with ideas that lacks many perspectives .

Locking someone in a skiltraining plan is not very good gamedesign. It forces you to stick to your skillplan (to min-max) even if you want to do something else after a few weeks. It happens a lot with new corp fitting requirments, new gameplay elemnts you want to try, etc.