EVE General Discussion

these are the sort of question we should look at in regards to this issues maybe CCP Darwin can provide information by mining the data

1 - how many trail accounts not linked to an active account are remaped towards skilling
2 - of the player base how many have the attreibutes set as balanced
3 - how often are players loosing implants and what type of implant skills vs hardwires
4 - how often are people jc to training clones

yes, i was going to type a more detailed rationale, but actually, "yes" says it all.

After a lot of discussions with friends concerning the current setup and the advantages/disadvantages to it, I can see the argument for a change. Rather than argue for keeping the current system, or hammer one specific point over and over again, I’d like to state a few things that came up in conversation that are liked and I feel should be considered for any future changes. Note: these points may have been brought up before, or arguments made against. I’ve had a hard time keeping up with the thread and just feel that a basic contribution is better than none. I don’t intend to argue points back and forth for pages on end.

• Flexibility to train towards specific goals quicker

There is mention that the attribute system both rewards, and hinders players in their training. While it does allow us to train a specific type of skill quickly, it ultimately is very limited due to remap timing, and the attributes and can potentially hinder a long term training regiment because of prerequisites, or that skills necessary to complete their goals are too far spread out (attribute wise). However, the flexibility to train some skills quicker is a great boost, especially to new players who choose a goal and want enjoy their reward of reaching it. Not only accomplishing their training should be rewarding, but putting thought, research, and planning into setting your goals should be rewarded.

• Skills should be grouped appropriately, but separated enough to provide a unique experience and individuality to a character

Skills are one of the major aspects that make characters unique. Not only in the abilities they can offer to a corporation, but also in other areas such as the character bazaar. Cross training into skill groups should help in specific careers. Example, training into scanning skills would help a Data/Relic Explorer, but also benefit a DED site runner, someone who mines gas sites, or a combat scanner. However, chances are a person that does one of those things, doesn’t necessarily do the others and helps makes the character as unique as the person that is controlling it.

• A system that both persists through death of a clone, as well as one that is destroyed on the death of a clone

Having a system that contributes based on both time and money is nice for all players in the game. For those that have planned out their skill training, but don’t have money to drop on implants, a remap system is a great benefit to hitting their goals quicker (and rewarding for putting the effort into planning), while the implant system is great for those that want to remain flexible (flat attribute map) but don’t mind dropping money on increasing their training. Additionally, both provide a risk versus reward mechanic to the player. You can risk taking out a +5 clone and losing it in a PvP situation, but ultimately will train faster if you survive. On the other side, a heavily focused mapped player is rewarded by quicker training in areas they want, but don’t have the flexibility to train other areas.

• A training system should support multiple “types” of training

From my point of view, there are three types of training that typically take place in EVE and the current system seems to work well for it:



The “bounce around” trainers seems to be new players getting a feel for the game, or those who like to do a little bit of everything. If efficiency of a career were to be scaled from 1 to 5, they would be a 3. They see skills they need, or lack, and train them regardless of map. They don’t care about specialization and enjoy being well rounded.

The “good enough” trainer likes to take specialization skills to almost max, but don’t want to spend 4 weeks of training on a 2% bonus. They tend to be more specialized, but like to be somewhat flexible. When asked to fly a HAC, they immediately hop in any one available and undock and are still effective.

The “max everything” trainer wants the best capability to do the thing they’ve chosen. On the career scale they are a 6. They are the people that have perfect refining skills for everything, or max out large blaster specialization for that extra 2% damage for for their 10b isk incursion ship. They want to do be the best in a field.

My primary concern is the loss of choices. The attribute/implant system allows a lot of choices, and choices lead to gameplay experiences. Not only for the person doing the remap, but also the person sitting on station with a sebo’d Thrasher about to destroy their +5 clone. I am not opposed to a rework of the system, provided that it allows the pilots to have options that our current system does, as well as a risk/reward factor that we love about EVE.

Attribute implants have to go they're ******* stupid. Just let people play the damn game make all base attributes the same for everyone.

Because by SP and born date, 7, 8, and 9 are the core of rainfleet. Seemed a more symmetrical arrangement.

We really need a way to jump into clones in the same station without a cooldown. Even allow us to store several clones in a single station. Being able to hop in and out of clones with learning implants and into combat implants would be nice.

Want to move around a lot and be a mobile operation/fighter? Then you'll have to choose which implants you want to roll in.

Want to be able to swap clones more often and have more options? Then you'll have to settle into a smaller area of operations.

Just a quickly thought out idea. Whatever ends up happening with this whole thing though we need to retain the ability to make choices with each one having an upside and a downside.

*snip* nevermind, sorry.

You can't have two JC's in the same station. If you try it by installing one JC, JC'ing away, flying back to the station and JCing to a third JC, the second JC will overwrite the first.

pretty sure the implcation was to also enable in station jump cloning as well.