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Latest CSM notes : Rumours of attribute points/implants being removed.

First post First post
Author
vccv
#321 - 2015-01-27 20:53:17 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

Soon, we will all be the same, which will create outcry to 'let us be different', which will create need for a cash shop to sell 30 day SP boosters.


You shut your ***** mouth.


NEVARRR!!! AUR for golden ammo! AUR for 30day SP booster! AUR for Lvl 90 Panda Warrior! AUR for T4 Super Star Destroyer! Whole System Mega-Doomsdays now on sale only 8000 AUR! Platinum level Uber-barges for 12000, now includes Ultra-ORE strip miners for 2000% yield! 120000 AUR pants! Want a titan, and don't want to train for one? Fly a titan on day one with the new 120mil SP bundle, comes Titan of your choice with 30 day highsec capital use certificate! Do what you want with the 15day CONCORD BRIBE pass!

Let the Pandaverse reign supreme!


**** just got real!
Solops Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2015-01-27 20:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Elenahina wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I pay $100 or more in Plex.a month to play this game


Who cares? I am sure there are people that pay more every month - does that mean they have more value than you?

It never ceases to amaze me that people somehow think they're special because they know how to spend money
I am Special Big smile And I do care where I spend my money if a game or community ceases to be fun and becomes Lame Inplants or no inplants I will Take my money else where.Trust me I wouldnt think twice kamikazeing my thousands of dollar worth of accounts.The reason I havnt is Eve has Hope And Im a Sucker For Sci Fi Fiction.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here

Memphis Baas
#323 - 2015-01-27 20:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

NEVARRR!!! AUR for golden ammo! AUR for Lvl 90 Panda Warrior! AUR for T4 Super Star Destroyer! Whole System Mega-Doomsdays now on sale only 8000 AUR! Platinum level Uber-barges for 12000, now includes Ultra-ORE strip miners for 2000% yield! 120000 AUR pants! Want a titan, and don't want to train for one? Fly a titan on day one with the new 120mil SP bundle, comes Titan of your choice with 30 day highsec capital use certificate! Do what you want with the 15day CONCORD BRIBE pass!


You laugh, but I'll take everything above for about 1% of the AUR price, with the proviso that everything self-destructs in 2 weeks. Another Armageddon event like on release day would be fun. I'd bet they'd make money on the promotion, even though ultimately we're paying for stuff that will self-destruct guaranteed. Y'all hardened PVP'ers would have your easy titan killmails, us PVE folk would get to fire a doomsday, happiness all around.
Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
#324 - 2015-01-27 21:01:23 UTC
We have 2 sets of implants. One for hardwires for ship/eq bonues, and one set for learning or learning + set bonuses. I don't see how having learning implants is hurting anyone. They have benefits with risk, just like anything else in this game.

Back when we had learning skills, I remember that if you trained them all to 5, you shaved like 2 months of training off over a 3 or 4 year period. We didn't have skill queues, we didn't have remaps. If you felt the best way to play Eve was to sit docked up for 2 months and just train learning skills first. You were either an alt or an idiot.

What most people did, and I know what I did, is train short skills while you were playing, and long skills when you weren't , especially on those short CCP patch day, when sometimes they lasted a week of the game being up and down before they got **** stabilized. Those were the days we trained the advanced learning skills to 5.

I was ok with learning skills being removed, because everyone got compensated for what they put into it. And they added remaps. Remaps help people fall into the same camp as the "I can't play for 2 months because i have to train learning skills first" crowd. Be glad you can even remap, most Achura can't.

We started with less than 20k sp, and we ratted, humped veldspar in a frig, scammed and whatnot just to be able to afford +1\s and 2's. +3's were viewed as a luxury until at least a few months into the game.

If you want to take out learning implants, fine. But everyone should get a boost like the learning skill removal.. if you have +3's you get the +3 boost, if you have +5's you get the +5 boost etc.

What don't do is give out the biggest reward for the least risk.
Memphis Baas
#325 - 2015-01-27 21:04:42 UTC
No that's not what most people did, stop inventing statistics unless you have some sort of proof. Most people sat in station for 2 months to learn learning skills.

You're as bad as the guy who's telling us what people, and especially WE, will and will not do if there's a change.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#326 - 2015-01-27 21:05:13 UTC
UberFly wrote:
Yep, I'd be all for the removing the remap / SP implants. The resulting SP/hr is meaningless to me, having the option right now, I choose to train faster.

It doesn't make any sense. Undock button is not locked when clone has +5 implants. SP/hr is meaningless to you, yet you choose to plug +5 to train faster, and not playing the game/undocking. Do you have kneecaps, sir? You shooting at your own arguments.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Solops Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2015-01-27 21:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
vccv wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

Soon, we will all be the same, which will create outcry to 'let us be different', which will create need for a cash shop to sell 30 day SP boosters.


You shut your ***** mouth.


NEVARRR!!! AUR for golden ammo! AUR for 30day SP booster! AUR for Lvl 90 Panda Warrior! AUR for T4 Super Star Destroyer! Whole System Mega-Doomsdays now on sale only 8000 AUR! Platinum level Uber-barges for 12000, now includes Ultra-ORE strip miners for 2000% yield! 120000 AUR pants! Want a titan, and don't want to train for one? Fly a titan on day one with the new 120mil SP bundle, comes Titan of your choice with 30 day highsec capital use certificate! Do what you want with the 15day CONCORD BRIBE pass!

Let the Pandaverse reign supreme!


**** just got real!

Hail Panda!http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/207/f/3/all_hail_the_panda_reich_by_shiuman-d41pldb.jpg

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2015-01-27 21:14:20 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

Soon, we will all be the same, which will create outcry to 'let us be different', which will create need for a cash shop to sell 30 day SP boosters.


You shut your ***** mouth.


NEVARRR!!! AUR for golden ammo! AUR for 30day SP booster! AUR for Lvl 90 Panda Warrior! AUR for T4 Super Star Destroyer! Whole System Mega-Doomsdays now on sale only 8000 AUR! Platinum level Uber-barges for 12000, now includes Ultra-ORE strip miners for 2000% yield! 120000 AUR pants! Want a titan, and don't want to train for one? Fly a titan on day one with the new 120mil SP bundle, comes Titan of your choice with 30 day highsec capital use certificate! Do what you want with the 15day CONCORD BRIBE pass!

Let the Pandaverse reign supreme!


I have to admit, I laughed out loud at this. <3 u UAE. You know, in a bro-no-homo kind of way.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
#329 - 2015-01-27 21:21:37 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
No that's not what most people did, stop inventing statistics unless you have some sort of proof. Most people sat in station for 2 months to learn learning skills.

You're as bad as the guy who's telling us what people, and especially WE, will and will not do if there's a change.


link
Chaotix Morwen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2015-01-27 22:04:01 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
No that's not what most people did, stop inventing statistics unless you have some sort of proof. Most people sat in station for 2 months to learn learning skills.

You're as bad as the guy who's telling us what people, and especially WE, will and will not do if there's a change.


Are you familiar with the term hypocrisy? Can you provide proof that the majority of Eve players sat in a station whilst they trained the learning skills instead of out flying?
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#331 - 2015-01-27 22:44:27 UTC
Removing attribute boosting implants I can go along with, will free up those slots for more defining boosts. But I believe we should keep the current attribute system with the remap functionality.

Reward players for dedicating their training time to specific areas, if anything consider rebalancing the stat distribution on skills.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#332 - 2015-01-27 23:04:50 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
Removing attribute boosting implants I can go along with, will free up those slots for more defining boosts. But I believe we should keep the current attribute system with the remap functionality.

Reward players for dedicating their training time to specific areas, if anything consider rebalancing the stat distribution on skills.

Remaps heavily favour alts, as newbies who need to actually play the character instantly and not wait six months or a year have to train across a high range of skills. (as do implants as well of course, but hey).
Remapping also creates the environment where 'I need to wait for a remap to train that skill optimally, so right now I can't do what I want'. Argue over 'need/want' division all you want, but anyone with at least half a brain can see that it does create that effect, and arguments that it's just a want are just derailing it in order to keep the status quo.
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#333 - 2015-01-27 23:25:16 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Logan Revelore wrote:
Removing attribute boosting implants I can go along with, will free up those slots for more defining boosts. But I believe we should keep the current attribute system with the remap functionality.

Reward players for dedicating their training time to specific areas, if anything consider rebalancing the stat distribution on skills.

Remaps heavily favour alts, as newbies who need to actually play the character instantly and not wait six months or a year have to train across a high range of skills. (as do implants as well of course, but hey).
Remapping also creates the environment where 'I need to wait for a remap to train that skill optimally, so right now I can't do what I want'. Argue over 'need/want' division all you want, but anyone with at least half a brain can see that it does create that effect, and arguments that it's just a want are just derailing it in order to keep the status quo.


You are correct in your analysis, I however don't believe the gains of removing the attribute system are worth it. It would be removing what I feel is an important choice a player has to make.

Noone ever died from training below 2700 SP/hour. The newbies that stay in the game will cope, and the ones that leave over this would've found some other reason to leave anyway.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#334 - 2015-01-28 00:07:30 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:

You are correct in your analysis, I however don't believe the gains of removing the attribute system are worth it. It would be removing what I feel is an important choice a player has to make.

Noone ever died from training below 2700 SP/hour. The newbies that stay in the game will cope, and the ones that leave over this would've found some other reason to leave anyway.

In a binary world, you would be right, however we are not in a binary world, but the complete spectrum of grey from white to black.
And on that spectrum, changes such as this will catch some people who otherwise would have left. I imagine most of those caught will be the smarter ones also who would have left because they understood that the current system actually benefits the old & rich. While the proposed newer system is simply flat.

Does it remove a tiny element of choice, maybe, but that element of choice is not part of the undocked gameplay, but part of the docked gameplay. And we should be focusing on making choices while undocked, not making all your choices before you undock and knowing things are set in stone after that.

So, to me, this thought of CCP is a step in the right direction for two reasons, as it removes a biased system that still has elements of the learning skills (PS, there is a 'slave set' skill, it's called Hull Upgrades, so the comparison between learning implants and slave implants is exactly like learning skills vs hull upgrades), and moves the focus more onto game play decisions made while in space.
Chaotix Morwen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2015-01-28 00:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Chaotix Morwen
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

(PS, there is a 'slave set' skill, it's called Hull Upgrades, so the comparison between learning implants and slave implants is exactly like learning skills vs hull upgrades).


Ahh so the "Hull upgrades" skill could not be used if you trained learning skills, oh wait it could be used as well as the learning skills, thus it is nothing like learning implants vs slave implants.
Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints
Sanctus Cor
#336 - 2015-01-28 00:37:01 UTC
LordZer00 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

The argument presented is a logical fallacy


We've already gone down the slope. The slope is a distant memory. We are now in the lodge ordering dinner and drinks.
Black Dranzer
#337 - 2015-01-28 02:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Fun fact: Learning skills were removed almost exactly 4 years ago. This was a significant event in the history of Eve, because it marked a turning point where the game did not change in any relevant way whatsoever and things continued to proceed exactly as they always did, except things were perhaps slightly better.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#338 - 2015-01-28 03:31:22 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
I cant find the math I believe someone has posted it. How long does it take to gain a net benefit to training speed from using +5 over +4's considering +5's take cybernetics 5.




A long time, unless you train Cybernetics 5 for other reasons (mindlinks, for example) and thus get +5s as a 'free' bonus.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#339 - 2015-01-28 05:25:29 UTC
UberFly wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Get isk and buy a character in the bizarre with the skills already trained. There is a solution.


I resemble that remark....

However, I'm currently sitting in station in a set of +5s while I add a few high-level skills (dreads, cap guns mostly).
I can see why CCP would do this, and I'm fine with it. Not having an option would mean I'd be in null, enjoying myself, instead of sitting in station for a few weeks to get the skills done a week or more earlier.


Thats not the implants fault its yours. I too am training up dread skills but rather than not play the game I am having fun.
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#340 - 2015-01-28 05:30:06 UTC
Viewpoint of a vet:

My characters attributes points are something I forgot even existed. The last time attribute points were even considered was the few minutes of rolling a new character for Planetary Interaction years ago, and even then the attributes were spread evenly across all attributes if I remember correctly. Giving starting characters all of the same starting attribute points would not adversely affect any game play that I am aware of.

Thinking about implants that affect the speed your character trains skills though is a different matter. People always want a way to speed up whatever it is they are doing. Having a modifier that a character can purchase in game is desirable, especially by young pilots.

These skill training modifiers dont necessarily have to be plain learning implants. Pirate implants for instance not only affect ship stats but the training speed of skills. It would seem natural to combine hardwires and learning implants as hardwires already affect ship attributes from 1% to 6% and could also affect the training modifier from 1 to 6. CCP could even expand the pirate and other implants if they desired so there is a wider range of training modifiers available.

There is a small concern that needs to be raised with the removal of learning implants. That concern is the removal could lead to "Power Ups" bought with Aurum to increase training speed. It is doubtful CCP would pull something like this though and I only bring it up so people are aware of the possibility.

** apologies in advance if the above thoughts have already been discussed **

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.