These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

First post First post First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-01-05 18:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone. Hope you've all had a great holiday season. Most of us are back at the office now, and we're putting the final preparations in place for the Proteus release next week.

One of the tweaks we are making in Proteus is to the scan resolution of Fighters and Fighter Bombers, both of which are being reduced quite significantly.

The primary goal of this change is to ensure that rapidly scooping and relaunching fighters and fighter bombers never gives a dps advantage. This practice has not been widespread thus far, but any possible advantage gained this way would both provide imbalanced DPS and cause significant server load so we want to nip it in the bud.

The changes will also have the effect of delaying the initial alpha strike of fighters and fighter bombers, especially against subcaps. Although it is not the primary purpose of the change we are not displeased by this effect, and we do not believe that it will make fighters or fighter bombers underpowered.

I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.

The new numbers are:
Type - Old Scan Res – New Scan Res
Dragonfly - 200 - 100
Einherji - 350 - 175
Firbolg - 250 - 125
Templar - 300 - 150
Cyclops – 250 - 27
Malleus - 300 - 29
Mantis - 200 - 25
Shadow – 225 - 30
Tyrfing - 350 - 31

Thanks everyone, and happy New Year!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2015-01-05 18:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
First!

Anything to make carriers less effective against subcaps is a good move IMO. Can you take away Carriers' sentry drones too, please?
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-01-05 18:57:59 UTC
Carriers are fine with sentries, Ishtars need to have sentries nerfed :)

+1 on the changes.
TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#4 - 2015-01-05 18:59:01 UTC
Can you explain more about this scoop and deploy tactic? I know of people having the drones return then attack again so that there is lower transversal, but I am unaware of this tactic.
Oscae
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-05 18:59:57 UTC
Damn those bombers are getting hit hard, but if it stops them blapping frigs I'm all for it.

NERF ALL THE CAPS!
Bl1SkR1N
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-01-05 19:01:12 UTC
just nerf ishtars and tengus finally :P
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2015-01-05 19:01:46 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Can you explain more about this scoop and deploy tactic? I know of people having the drones return then attack again so that there is lower transversal, but I am unaware of this tactic.


Since I'd rather you not try it, I'll decline. Big smile

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#8 - 2015-01-05 19:04:16 UTC
Well that's a first step. Big smile And its a good one of course, I find it actually brilliant to "nerf" fighters and fighter bombers this way!

We understand that you don't want to rush things too much, sometimes its for the best, sometimes its for the worst, but that's completely acceptable from a game design perspective imo.

Now the real question is... Will you, at some point, dare to step up and do the groundbreaking changes supers desperately need?

Game design revolving around "trololol nobody will build them, lets make them OP" is a tad counterproductive if you ask me. A change is needed!

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Lord Sevenkey Blueblood
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-01-05 19:06:21 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
just nerf ishtars and tengus finally :P


Hands off Ishtars!Twisted
Bl1SkR1N
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-01-05 19:08:36 UTC
Lord Sevenkey Blueblood wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
just nerf ishtars and tengus finally :P


Hands off Ishtars!Twisted


The dmg projection those ships got is just ridiculous...killed most of the fun with other doctrines :P But honestly i dont care about that as much as i do about tengus.
Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-05 19:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Can you please give us an update on how Ishtar use has gone after the slight nerf several releases ago?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-01-05 19:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Klarion Sythis
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I know that some people who are hoping for a major nerf to assigned fighters will be unhappy that this change will only have a small-moderate effect on that activity. We have been keeping a close eye on the way fighters are used ever since our recent rounds of drone rebalancing and we aren't ruling out any potential future changes at this time. However we are not going to rush into any larger changes to fighter mechanics.

Are there any further comments you can provide on this? For example, do you consider the edge case of assigned fighters from a POS hugging super undesirable as it relates to small gang pvp, or simply something to watch?

Do you think this change will actually change that situation or are you actively considering further changes once the effects of this settle out?

Not looking for commitments, but so far I haven't seen any direct acknowledgement that these very powerful edge cases are something CCP consider, well, undesirable.

Thanks.

Edit: context for anyone who needs it
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-01-05 19:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mostlyharmlesss
Since everyone is asking. Pulling your drones in resets their cycle timer.

ie:

Carrier getting tackled by a ship orbiting at 5 km.
Release ECM drones and their first ECM cycle fails to ECM the target.
Recall and relaunch
ECM drones will now cycle again, ignoring that they just did it
Repeat until succesful cycle and warp out.

(I'm using ECM drones as an example cause their cycle time is something like 20 seconds, but with above tactic you can pull a cycle off roughly every 5 second)


This is a bandaid fix for this, on a larger scale and just for fighters and fighter bombers. This is a known tactic that has often been used to defang POS' by the various super pilots across New Eden.

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
ChaosTheory.
#14 - 2015-01-05 19:27:32 UTC
This will sharply impact fighter use for null PVE, and not just assigned fighters. If this causes those carriers isk/hour (and isk/site) rates to drop too much (omg fighters already have delays killing npc frigs, this lowering of their lock speed will make that worse) people will move away from carrier and super carrier ratting and back to sub caps. Sub caps escape traps even better than carriers do (sure a carrier can rat aligned but sometimes a misclick will screw than and let the carrier get caught before it can warp).

While this might have a momentary good affect on the economy (less liquid isk poured into the economy from ratting carriers and supers) it also has the knock on effect of fewer carrier and super carrier pvp targets. Some of the best carrier/S.cap kills comes when a ratter is caught.

We'll just have to wait and see i guess.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#15 - 2015-01-05 19:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Fighter bombers got a ROF (rate of fire) of 15 seconds which means it can only fire once every 15 second. Each fighter bomber has between 10,000 and 20,000 damage depending on supercarrier and drone damage amplifers, but let's say they deal 15,000 damage each. 15,000 damage divided by 15 seconds is 1,000 DPS (damage per second) or 10,000 DPS for 10 fighter bombers which a supercarrier can field. By returning the fighter bombers to your drone bay and launching them again you rest the ROF timer. If you can pull your drones, launch them and have them aggress in 10 seconds, you'll effectively reduce your ROF to 10 seconds or 15,000 DPS for ten fighter, which is a 50% increase in DPS.



Also fighter assist is a problem right now because the meta hasn't adjusted to it yet. I myself just got a 100mn MWD Stratios which I'll use to bump carriers and possibly supers off POSes. The only nerf fighter assist should get is to make them scramable.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#16 - 2015-01-05 19:34:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This will sharply impact fighter use for null PVE, and not just assigned fighters. If this causes those carriers isk/hour (and isk/site) rates to drop too much (omg fighters already have delays killing npc frigs, this lowering of their lock speed will make that worse) people will move away from carrier and super carrier ratting and back to sub caps. Sub caps escape traps even better than carriers do (sure a carrier can rat aligned but sometimes a misclick will screw than and let the carrier get caught before it can warp).

While this might have a momentary good affect on the economy (less liquid isk poured into the economy from ratting carriers and supers) it also has the knock on effect of fewer carrier and super carrier pvp targets. Some of the best carrier/S.cap kills comes when a ratter is caught.

We'll just have to wait and see i guess.


Consider fitting target painters to your carrier/super if you're concerned about lock time.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#17 - 2015-01-05 19:34:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Can you explain more about this scoop and deploy tactic? I know of people having the drones return then attack again so that there is lower transversal, but I am unaware of this tactic.


Since I'd rather you not try it, I'll decline. Big smile

After ye fix it, would ye tell us?

I would be thoroughly entertained be a "Ridiculously mad broken **** that used to be in the game" devblog.
notaspaialt1
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-01-05 19:35:27 UTC
why the nerf on fighter bombers? they cant effectively do damage to subcaps. im disapointed about the fighter nerf, people will still complain about drones till they get nerfed to the ground.
Daide Vondrichnov
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
Snuffed Out
#19 - 2015-01-05 19:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
Missread

Good change.
Rowells
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#20 - 2015-01-05 19:38:45 UTC
poor caldari, dead before they finish lock
123Next pageLast page