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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1141 - 2014-11-26 09:43:19 UTC
RUS Comannder wrote:
Altrue wrote:
RUS Comannder wrote:

I only have 12 accounts


That kind of quote makes me laugh



A long time ago when I started playing in 2004, no one knew this game would be around for long, so I specialized players to trade, to mine to pvp and to build. There was no Eve approved way to change one player to another person or even ot have three trained up to do three different jobs and just logon and logoff to whichever of them was needed you could not train more than one per account, and 15 buck for an account is nothing to me. If I had full use of the limbs I have, my monthly eve costs would not cover one green's fee where I used to play several time a week. Even though Ebay was then full of ships, characters and accounts, it was against the rules and I am a rule follower, not breaker.

So in the interest of time savings and meeting the tasks needed to be a well rounded player, I built a corp for myself, while having one player in a corp with 70 or so other friends.

Let me see if there is anything about you I can laugh about - oh wait, I don't do that.


I literally laugh at anyone that thinks they need more than one account to be a 'well rounded player'. To me, they're basically scamming themselves. I've never enjoyed a game more than EVE Online and I've only needed one account to do so.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1142 - 2014-11-26 09:44:26 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
Dustpuppy wrote:
All you do with ISboxer is earn enough isk to keep the accounts active with plex bought from the market. You don't pay cash, you only consume.


WRONG

Players who use PLEX simply use in-game currency in exchange for someone else to pay their subscription. Why this escapes some people is beyond me.


Well I will be glad to pay 350 mio isk to fund e.g. an additional account or to do dual training on a single account so I will buy it instead of you (or someone else). The amount of plex consumed won't change, only the price in isk paid for it on the market will change.

Removing these isboxer guys just will reduce the income faucet which can be used to spend isk on buying plex, that's all. It will make regular players who do't want to run 10-20 clients at the same time more competitive.

And the wind of change is already blowing. Plex price around 875k on the market is a clear sign :)

If you don't like it, i can recommend to sing the song "This is the end" (Doors) while unsubscribing. \o/

It's more like IS boxers are trying to get in on the mad scramble to unload plex before it drops below what they paid for it, as they have no more use for 400+ plex, as they will probably drop to 5-7 accounts tops. I'm pretty good at twitch when required, and I can't effectively box more than 12 in anything but mining without software support.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
HypoConDreAct
Shits N Giggles
#1143 - 2014-11-26 09:47:06 UTC  |  Edited by: HypoConDreAct
Another Isboxer here.

first off lets straighten a few things out.

1: Your still going to get bomb by multiboxers. but now the bombs will be more staggered so you are probably going to lose your pod as well. (try not to fall into bubble traps)

2: Most people that mine with this 3rd party tools (Isboxer) use a dashboard set up so the repeater was really only used to warp to the Station//POS and dock.

3: Your still are going to get ganked by Multiboxers maybe not on the scale that they could do it before but i cant see it been an issue where you wont see it anymore.

4. People will still Mutlibox INCs as waiting for fleets sucks (there time to do sites will drop and you might only see VG mulitboxers)

With this been said I am on the fence a bit with this change.
I can see why they have done it and i agree that 30 man alt fleets do harm the game. It also was a point that did need to be black and white with the repeater.

But to be honest my time zone is very quite (AUS/NZ) we mainly fight with large groups like the Russians and are constantly out numbered with out alts we would struggle to hold onto the wormhole that or small corp has right now. the only time i really use the repeater was for targeting and anchoring on one toon. now i guess i will either have to just up gun or stay POSed (so not staying in a POS when there are things to shoot) so my kill board is going to get worse .... oh well guess thats fine.

I would like to address quickly tho that some things for the game may need to be changed so mistake banning don't happen.
Drone Assist logging may cause it to seam like F is been pressed on multiple accounts at the same time (not sure how its logged)
Also the "Regroup" command may seem to make every in the fleet look like the are approaching the FC at the same time. (Again not sure how this is logged)

Fly Deadly

HypoConDreAct
Hulky Boy
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1144 - 2014-11-26 09:48:40 UTC
People complaining about others using programs like is-boxer are those that are too lazy to use scouts to check if there are 30 man gangs waiting to gank people to naive to check if the other side of that gate in a .5 system is clear. You deserved to loose your freighter and next time hopefully you will learn to get somebody to scout for you. Same goes with 0.0 bombing, your only complaints are due to your own epic fails
Verde Minator
Crack And Cookies For Santa
#1145 - 2014-11-26 09:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Verde Minator
for the most part, +1000, and then some..

for someone that multiboxs, i was waiting for something like this to happen a long long time ago.. which is why i didnt turn to iso boxer or anything else. yeah it was work perfecting skills using several monitors, one keyboard and mouse, and having to fine tune my mouse clicking and dieing A LOT... but at least now.. well.. i can drink up the tears of you who have basically been playing one character as though you were more than one character and buying plexs from the roids you were mining, or the isk you were ratting, or the towers you were bombing, or the salvage you got from bombing fleet after fleet after fleet...

must i go on?

ur tears taste delicious....

now i think we will see more headhunting in eve, as prices of plexs go up, carnage will become greater, the evil side of spies will become even more sinister, the sandbox will have more pitfalls and quicksand.. chaos, i can see it now, chaos!!

it does however mean that those who mine in new ships, their minerals will be worth more, will ccp up the prices of stuff they seed or continue to keep them the same insuring the help of the new players?

can you see the long term goals? probably not.. but that's okay...

ur tears taste delicious....EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#1146 - 2014-11-26 10:03:39 UTC
Side question:

Will this change have an impact on npc kills in null? There are systems which constantly have >5000 nc kills in 24hours, day in day out, every day, every week.

I strongly doubt someone can organize a corp with real players to focus on this for a longer time without getting bored. I assume these are corps run by few real players running multiple ratting clients for plexing and renting the space.

If my assumption is true then this change also might have some positive impact on the renting plague in the blue donut Lol
Sp1iff
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1147 - 2014-11-26 10:05:59 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Was the new trailer so successful in drawing new players that CCP think they can afford to lose all those multi accounts?

Well anyway, I support this. I don't think these auto-multiboxers contributed much to the game experience of anyone.


1 person > 6-30 accounts > CCP is winning

after they stop their tantrums, and un-sub most of those account they will be left with the average 2-4 accounts, so...

1 person > 2-4 accounts > CCP still winning (winning less but still winning)

We dont give a ****, neither does CCP that people are leaving the game because of this new policy. If you leave altogether its still not a problem, the new trailer just replaced you anyway. Please leave quietly
Ormand Audel
Doomheim
#1148 - 2014-11-26 10:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ormand Audel
Question: Are we allowed to broadcast, but not duplicate commands? So I could have F1 bound to slot1 on client 1, F2 bound to slot1 on client 2 and so on, without alt tabbing? Not sure if it's possible without duplication, but if it is, is it allowed?

E: For those that say "it doesn't allow broadcasting", my definitions may vary to CCPs.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1149 - 2014-11-26 10:08:52 UTC
Agent Intrepid wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Agent Intrepid wrote:
Hikemi Karrado wrote:
Actually a good move from CCP to clarify that.

ISBoxer should now have a "comply to CCP rules" button so that users can decide if the want to risk a ban or not.

For me, I'm looking for an alternate product like ISBoxer. It's just too expensive (well, talking about the driver) for an "Eve display optimizer" with a concurrent logon feature.


You don't realise that you're wasting your time? Input mirroring is banned. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's not allowed. If you find some crazy work around but it has the same effect and looks the same to CCP then you will be banned. There's no point in trying to get around it. You can choose to adapt or leave.

We would like to clarify that it does not matter how Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are being done, whether through use of software or modified hardware. Our only concern is regarding how it is being used in the EVE universe.

Way to read. Post you quoted is looking for something to do the display optimization as freeware.


But if that's all he wants to use it for, then why he is seeking an alternative? CCP only outlawed input broadcasting.

Freeware. ISboxer costs money in its official form. And while I may play a pirate from time to time (not on this toon, as any KB checking will show) I'm not gonna advocate pirating it.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1150 - 2014-11-26 10:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Intrepid
Hulky Boy wrote:
People complaining about others using programs like is-boxer are those that are too lazy to use scouts to check if there are 30 man gangs waiting to gank people to naive to check if the other side of that gate in a .5 system is clear. You deserved to loose your freighter and next time hopefully you will learn to get somebody to scout for you. Same goes with 0.0 bombing, your only complaints are due to your own epic fails


An isboxer user; third party software that is intended to make the game easier to play, for those too lazy to multibox manually, accusing non users of being lazy. How ironic.
The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1151 - 2014-11-26 10:23:13 UTC
Anyone using ISboxer with half a brain is simply gonna double down for the next month:) Bloodraider smart-bomb ratting is making me 2b per hour in isk and about 1b in loot and svalage after seeing the "news" all I did was resub 4 more accounts next 4 weeks I'm simply gonna smart-bomb 12h a day so that after the first of January I'll never have to do it again. If I can keep it up to 12h a day gonna make close to 2 tril isk the next 30 days.And really what does that change you can still use keybinds just not across clients and you can still use roaming keys you can still use videoFX. Isboxer still gives you an insane edge over the plebs who don't use it or don't know how to correctly use it. Broadcasting was just a easy-mode thing.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1152 - 2014-11-26 10:23:31 UTC
DragonHelm III wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Ama Scelesta wrote:
RIP ISBoxer?


ISBoxer has some great uses outside of it's broadcasting functions. So maybe, but probably not.

For god's sake CCP stop all the bluster and give a straight answer

ISBOXER banned or not? It just needs a yes or no

All this crap about terms like Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing mean squat to me as I have no idea what they are.


Well, if you read it, it says that ISBOXER is not banned. The way I understand the rest of it, if you do anything where you press 1 button and it does things on more than 1 client, that's not allowed.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
Devious Johnson
Doomheim
#1153 - 2014-11-26 10:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Devious Johnson
to all you people talking about how ccp are not going to be able to track the isboxers attempting to circumvent the new rule..

your forgetting one important point.. alot of isboxers have their characters named

botter 1
botter 2
botter 3
botter 4
........
botter 20

replace botter with a random character name but they stll have the number after it lol...
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1154 - 2014-11-26 10:28:21 UTC
Devious Johnson wrote:
to all you people talking about how ccp are not going to be able to track the isboxers attempting to circumvent the new rule..

your forgetting one important point.. alot of isboxers have their characters named

botter 1
botter 2
botter 3
botter 4
........
botter 20

replace botter with a random character name but they stll have the number after it lol...

Never really did like that trait, its almost as bad as the names which throw a sledgehammer at the already fairly shakey 4th wall.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1155 - 2014-11-26 10:29:23 UTC
Nemed Bererund wrote:
So no more Eve-Central Market crawler then?


CREST provides that data already.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#1156 - 2014-11-26 10:30:09 UTC
ISBoxer's input multiplication has the same effect on EVE's economy as botting but with the added sickness of distorting PVP on top of it.

I'm glad CCP finally close this loophole and made the game a little fairer for the actual humans who play it. The "This is EVE" newbros deserve nothing less.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1157 - 2014-11-26 10:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Devious Johnson wrote:
to all you people talking about how ccp are not going to be able to track the isboxers attempting to circumvent the new rule..

your forgetting one important point.. alot of isboxers have their characters named

botter 1
botter 2
botter 3
botter 4
........
botter 20

replace botter with a random character name but they stll have the number after it lol...

As I said earlier, I have a feeling that this change is aimed purely at those using the tool to gank freighters.

I have a hard time believing that this is a miner/incursioner issue when so many of those players not only use ISBoxer, but use it to bot gameplay activities, instead of just bypassing the requirement to play with others. And no matter how obvious they are about this...*looks at the fleets of 10+ Macks with 01-10 naming schemes all across space*...Nothing has ever been done to punish them.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1158 - 2014-11-26 10:35:44 UTC
I don't think detecting broadcasts from good logs will be hard. If it is done properly that is. And all the people i know that isbox have no intention of cheating. They love playing eve. And please don't start with the "but it is cheating", you probably think that anyone with more accounts than you is cheating, that anyone that has more isk that you is cheating etc......

As for extra local software to catch people. Well i run wine on linux, i have 2 account and thinking of a third. I don't use isboxer because i am on linux. In fact every instance of eve is run on a fresh instance of wine. So as far as eve the client can tell, it is on a windows machine with absolutely nothing else running on the machine.

There are quite a lot of us out there. And even some of the eve devs are on linux, running eve.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1159 - 2014-11-26 10:36:54 UTC
Agent Intrepid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1160 - 2014-11-26 10:37:17 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
Anyone using ISboxer with half a brain is simply gonna double down for the next month:) Bloodraider smart-bomb ratting is making me 2b per hour in isk and about 1b in loot and svalage after seeing the "news" all I did was resub 4 more accounts next 4 weeks I'm simply gonna smart-bomb 12h a day so that after the first of January I'll never have to do it again. If I can keep it up to 12h a day gonna make close to 2 tril isk the next 30 days.And really what does that change you can still use keybinds just not across clients and you can still use roaming keys you can still use videoFX. Isboxer still gives you an insane edge over the plebs who don't use it or don't know how to correctly use it. Broadcasting was just a easy-mode thing.


You make 2 billion isk an hour smartbomb ratting, and expect to make a trillion isk over the next month? Sounds like something CCP would want to look into.