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[Phoebe] Stealth Bombers

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Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#541 - 2014-10-18 09:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Longdrinks
BROTHER Mullakai wrote:
All is not lost , ( we usually just have a very small group and warp our selves so this is less about de cloaking as we go different times and distances ) i am a little concerned about the 12s on bombs thing but people on the ball will get away any way with 10 secs and numbskulls dont even notice it heading their way and im sure that will continue .
The align thing was bugging me then i rememberd

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sensor-overlay-2.0-bigger-better-bookmarks-in-spacier/


This is happening , bookmarks on overlay in same expansion unless i have this wrong you could literraly set bookmarks on the fly the opposite side to each other of target , get closer (having overlay bookmark on selected item ready ) de cloak / bomb/warp by clicking slected item as usuall ;)

Never have to really align .


Hope i have this right ?

yes but theres a couple of minutes delay on corp bookmarks updating for everyone so hope your target sits still
Lugh Crow-Slave
#542 - 2014-10-18 10:37:35 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
as said before, 100 bombs will self annihilate

but wing after wing. . . we will darken the skies with our bombers---and you will DIE in the shade

That aside, may I ask if there are any more things I should add to my summary?

m

i would like it if the new bomb was looked at in regards to carriers and dreads either by making triage/siege immune(or resistance) to the cap void (thus they can be used to force carriers into triage) or see if anything can be done to batteries to up their nuet resistance to a point that this module is worth using over recharges.



but asit stands a small WH group will be to strongly affected by this bomb


This.

Caps need some defence from void bombs otherwise thes bombs are going to be hugely overpowered... caps are aleready rapidly becoming the weakest class of ships in the game; the can't jump far, can't jump a gate if a HIC is around, can't defend themselves against sub caps...


Well caps should not be able to defend themselves against subcaps w/o subcaps in their fleet but with this new bomb even with a subcap support fleet they just become a liability rather then a force multiplier.

(not directed at rek)
now in the large capital fleets of null this bomb will probably work as intended and in LS you wont be able to use them so it is WH space where this becomes a problem

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#543 - 2014-10-18 11:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: FunGu Arsten
Mike Azariah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1410/IBombers.png

This.


Nice graphic, the only issue I have with it is when do they cloak? If (btw has this little gem been confirmed?) they can be decloaked in warp if they are in the same warp bubble would they all have to space out ahead of time or would they cycle in?

m


do you eaven know what you're talking about
- the isboxer bomb fleet is already setup to warp at differend ranges ....
- warp to random object at their respected distance - cloak
- or warp to same point - set 'keep at range" 30km so the fleet moves away from the center point and they all cloak...??


and lets face it - IF you would uncloak eachother in warp when warping from the same grid to another location in system- then there is no need for a covert cloak right??

the changes are shortsighted, ineffective and doing the exact difference what you want them to do.

> people who play this game, know the things that are complained about already given you the exact reasons why this is bad,wrong and utterly dumb... Though we all know it will be ignored and more tears will flow
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#544 - 2014-10-18 11:16:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Byson1 wrote:
is there any communication between the guys deciding to screw with mechanics?
Is there really a good reason this should even happen. or is it just to screw with people?
I think people working for ccp who play the game should not be allowed to make such decisions. I don't believe they are impartial. There needs to be an audit to see who these changes will help the most. Who in CCP?


These changes will mean more ship comps will be viable again.


It's curing the disease by killing the patient.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#545 - 2014-10-18 11:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Danikov
Mike Azariah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1410/IBombers.png

This.


Nice graphic, the only issue I have with it is when do they cloak? If (btw has this little gem been confirmed?) they can be decloaked in warp if they are in the same warp bubble would they all have to space out ahead of time or would they cycle in?

m


Warp to an off-grid spot at default ranges. All bombers are spaced out by 5km and can cloak.

Warp to the bm at default ranges cloaked. Job's a good'un.

Also, for what it's worth, if you have a smooth damage curve (i.e. higher damage at the center of the bomb detonation, low damage at the edge) and tweak the bomb HP values, ISBoxer gets nerfed into the ground as precision bombing causes all the bombs to land in the same place.... which means the first bomb will destroy all the other bombs and you'll only get a single detonation. Real players spreading out bombs due to natural human inaccuracy and/or rippling bomb release across multiple bombers will be needed, which is far more interesting bomber coordination than blind men trying not to bump into each other.
FunGu Arsten
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#546 - 2014-10-18 11:35:59 UTC
BROTHER Mullakai wrote:
All is not lost , ( we usually just have a very small group and warp our selves so this is less about de cloaking as we go different times and distances ) i am a little concerned about the 12s on bombs thing but people on the ball will get away any way with 10 secs and numbskulls dont even notice it heading their way and im sure that will continue .
The align thing was bugging me then i rememberd

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sensor-overlay-2.0-bigger-better-bookmarks-in-spacier/


This is happening , bookmarks on overlay in same expansion unless i have this wrong you could literraly set bookmarks on the fly the opposite side to each other of target , get closer (having overlay bookmark on selected item ready ) de cloak / bomb/warp by clicking slected item as usuall ;)

Never have to really align .


Hope i have this right ?


As always.. great changes beeing overshadowed by that one "wtfwereyouthinking"-change...

"The only lesson we ever learn is that we never learn "
Robert Fisk:
Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#547 - 2014-10-18 12:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Sieonigh
Mike Azariah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1410/IBombers.png

This.


Nice graphic, the only issue I have with it is when do they cloak? If (btw has this little gem been confirmed?) they can be decloaked in warp if they are in the same warp bubble would they all have to space out ahead of time or would they cycle in?

m


quite simple really set a unique BMs for each bomber at off grids name them the same thing but not be at the exact spot, but in the same vicinity, cloak up and get set.

ISbox bombing in this regard revolves around prior set up, camping a gate of JB ect. which in turn will be more viable with jump fatigue changes forcing pilots to use gates more.

im on team "don't do cloak change"
i do feel it will be destructive to other cloak classes.
Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#548 - 2014-10-18 12:40:28 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Capqu wrote:

3) i appreciate that you did that, but after the devblog has come out is often too late, which i pretty much am resigned into believing this time around too. i am aware that is not your fault and not in your control. as for speaking from a position of inexperience, maybe you don't, but you are not the only csm and its not unheard of for people to push their own agendas at a detriment to the greater good.

basically im depressed and disappointed as heck because this isn't the first time ccp has ignored minority player base when they destroy some niche of the game. first they came for the rat ai changes, mission flipping etc. etc.



Well, the NDA kind of forbids me from asking folks ahead of dev blogs. Sometimes I try to find a way around it but most times I try to be fast on the response and see how well I can shift the position from the original. That is why you see me asking for input and top two things you would like chenged.

Sorry to hear about the depression but weren't you normal bomber folk depressed if all the bombing in your corp was being handed to the isbox guy? or did I misread that?

m


nah i understand about the nda, i'm not blaming you. main priority for change would be ANYTHING that makes bombs apply damage equally to shield/armor doctrines instead of a soley a power-level nerf, and secondary priority would be something to discourage isboxer

yea we hate it, that's life
it's like knowing you're on a team with 7 of your bestest pals, but if you ditch all of them and just play by yourself instead you'll amount to more than you could ever achieve together. a couple of those pals i used to bomb with / fc bombers with decided to go down that route, and i can't blame them for it. the power of friendship doesn't work in video games, only anime.
when you have 3/4 squads of isboxed bombers, there really isnt any point in adding more human bombers - the combination of diminishing returns and massively increased effort takes away any illusion of enjoyment


you know smart bombs don't take sig into account right? why not make bombs do the same and reduce damage?
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#549 - 2014-10-18 15:34:21 UTC
Wandering Squirl wrote:
Hello CCP,

..... how about giving fleets a fighting chance against bombs them selves by making defender missiles work against bombs.....

S


have you ever used defender missiles? do you actually know how they work?
missiles =! bombs
+ u can use the smartbombs now

not saying im happy with those changes though
Lugh Crow-Slave
#550 - 2014-10-18 15:43:48 UTC
per wrote:
Wandering Squirl wrote:
Hello CCP,

..... how about giving fleets a fighting chance against bombs them selves by making defender missiles work against bombs.....

S


have you ever used defender missiles? do you actually know how they work?
missiles =! bombs


not saying im happy with those changes though


i think that's why he was asking for them to be changed so they do work

however i would much rather the bombs be target able lower their sig(and resists accordingly) so that only destroyers/frigs have a chance to lock them in time

this would give a new reason to have smaller ships in the fleets and give a reason to launch more then 7 bombs in a wave as most will probably get intercepted.

at the same time make it so even if the bomber dies the bomb can still go off so you have to chose "do i try and go for the bomber to prevent him from launching anymore? or do i go after the bombs to keep these ones from landing"

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#551 - 2014-10-18 16:44:44 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
as said before, 100 bombs will self annihilate

but wing after wing. . . we will darken the skies with our bombers---and you will DIE in the shade

That aside, may I ask if there are any more things I should add to my summary?

m

i would like it if the new bomb was looked at in regards to carriers and dreads either by making triage/siege immune(or resistance) to the cap void (thus they can be used to force carriers into triage) or see if anything can be done to batteries to up their nuet resistance to a point that this module is worth using over recharges.



but asit stands a small WH group will be to strongly affected by this bomb


This.

Caps need some defence from void bombs otherwise thes bombs are going to be hugely overpowered... caps are aleready rapidly becoming the weakest class of ships in the game; the can't jump far, can't jump a gate if a HIC is around, can't defend themselves against sub caps...


Well caps should not be able to defend themselves against subcaps w/o subcaps in their fleet but with this new bomb even with a subcap support fleet they just become a liability rather then a force multiplier.

(not directed at rek)
now in the large capital fleets of null this bomb will probably work as intended and in LS you wont be able to use them so it is WH space where this becomes a problem


It will only affect W-space if its is deemed worth sacrificing a vital pilot for the bomber. That being said capacitor warfare in Wspace is extremely powerful and this bomb may be overpowered in that regard. CCP needs to look at this before the release

That being said CCP don't care about Wspace so who knows what they will do

So Much Space
Lugh Crow-Slave
#552 - 2014-10-18 16:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Faren Shalni wrote:


It will only affect W-space if its is deemed worth sacrificing a vital pilot for the bomber. That being said capacitor warfare in Wspace is extremely powerful and this bomb may be overpowered in that regard. CCP needs to look at this before the release

That being said CCP don't care about Wspace so who knows what they will do


if you are defending bring in bombers just long enough to send out a volly and shut down an archon is something most groups would find worth the loss of dps if they can't beat the reps as is but yeah i wish they would so us some love in WH

EDIT:

I do really like the idea behind this bomb and feel it fits WH style bombing amazingly but i'm just worried it may be a touch to strong if capitals have no other way then smart bombs to counter them

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#553 - 2014-10-18 17:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:


It will only affect W-space if its is deemed worth sacrificing a vital pilot for the bomber. That being said capacitor warfare in Wspace is extremely powerful and this bomb may be overpowered in that regard. CCP needs to look at this before the release

That being said CCP don't care about Wspace so who knows what they will do


if you are defending bring in bombers just long enough to send out a volly and shut down an archon is something most groups would find worth the loss of dps if they can't beat the reps as is but yeah i wish they would so us some love in WH

EDIT:

I do really like the idea behind this bomb and feel it fits WH style bombing amazingly but i'm just worried it may be a touch to strong if capitals have no other way then smart bombs to counter them


Well I am looking at Dreads mainly. The meta has moved to shield dreads meaning their capacitor is life..... and these bombs take that away in one run.

Also it seems CCP want us to use the frig holes more..........

Edit: Just checked. That just over 2 bhaal's of neuting alpha in one bomb.... thats insanely powerful in fact thats overpowered....goodbye triage and siege in wspace

So Much Space
Lugh Crow-Slave
#554 - 2014-10-18 17:53:26 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:


It will only affect W-space if its is deemed worth sacrificing a vital pilot for the bomber. That being said capacitor warfare in Wspace is extremely powerful and this bomb may be overpowered in that regard. CCP needs to look at this before the release

That being said CCP don't care about Wspace so who knows what they will do


if you are defending bring in bombers just long enough to send out a volly and shut down an archon is something most groups would find worth the loss of dps if they can't beat the reps as is but yeah i wish they would so us some love in WH

EDIT:

I do really like the idea behind this bomb and feel it fits WH style bombing amazingly but i'm just worried it may be a touch to strong if capitals have no other way then smart bombs to counter them


Well I am looking at Dreads mainly. The meta has moved to shield dreads meaning their capacitor is life..... and these bombs take that away in one run.

Also it seems CCP want us to use the frig holes more..........

Edit: Just checked. That just over 2 bhaal's of neuting alpha in one bomb.... thats insanely powerful in fact thats overpowered....goodbye triage and siege in wspace


This will certainly affect dreads as well why i think a resistance should be tied to siege and triage mods this would still play hell with a slow cats cap chain (if you have enough bombers) but would lessen the effect on single carrier or dread fleets.

I'm not saying it has to be a 100% resist but i do think that some resist for T1 siege/triage and a bit more for T2 wouldn't be to bad (unless these bombs are meant to shut down small cap fleets?)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Doddy
Excidium.
#555 - 2014-10-18 19:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
RIP bombing.

Anti capital bomb will be useless against anyone who brings more than one smartbomb in their fleet...

But hey at least solo hunters get a hp boost. If only they hadn't been nerfed by rats preferentially shooting them that might be usefull.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#556 - 2014-10-18 19:09:07 UTC
Doddy wrote:
RIP bombing.

Anti capital bomb will be useless against anyone who brings more than one smartbomb in their fleet...

But hey at least solo hunters get a hp boost. If only they hadn't been nerfed by rats preferentially shooting them that might be usefull.



no if you stagger several of the anti cap bomb it can still pass through a few smart bombs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Doddy
Excidium.
#557 - 2014-10-18 19:25:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Doddy wrote:
RIP bombing.

Anti capital bomb will be useless against anyone who brings more than one smartbomb in their fleet...

But hey at least solo hunters get a hp boost. If only they hadn't been nerfed by rats preferentially shooting them that might be usefull.



no if you stagger several of the anti cap bomb it can still pass through a few smart bombs


ok, you automatically lose a third of your capping to 2 smartbombs, 2/3rds to 4 smartbombs and any number of bombers will be countered by 6 smartbombs or 1 bomber in position to defensively bomb its own caps.
BROTHER Mullakai
GoD SwarM
#558 - 2014-10-18 19:43:18 UTC
Longdrinks wrote:
BROTHER Mullakai wrote:
All is not lost , ( we usually just have a very small group and warp our selves so this is less about de cloaking as we go different times and distances ) i am a little concerned about the 12s on bombs thing but people on the ball will get away any way with 10 secs and numbskulls dont even notice it heading their way and im sure that will continue .
The align thing was bugging me then i rememberd

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sensor-overlay-2.0-bigger-better-bookmarks-in-spacier/


This is happening , bookmarks on overlay in same expansion unless i have this wrong you could literraly set bookmarks on the fly the opposite side to each other of target , get closer (having overlay bookmark on selected item ready ) de cloak / bomb/warp by clicking slected item as usuall ;)

Never have to really align .


Hope i have this right ?

yes but theres a couple of minutes delay on corp bookmarks updating for everyone so hope your target sits still




hmmm thats a point :/
BROTHER Mullakai
GoD SwarM
#559 - 2014-10-18 19:44:24 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:
BROTHER Mullakai wrote:
All is not lost , ( we usually just have a very small group and warp our selves so this is less about de cloaking as we go different times and distances ) i am a little concerned about the 12s on bombs thing but people on the ball will get away any way with 10 secs and numbskulls dont even notice it heading their way and im sure that will continue .
The align thing was bugging me then i rememberd

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sensor-overlay-2.0-bigger-better-bookmarks-in-spacier/


This is happening , bookmarks on overlay in same expansion unless i have this wrong you could literraly set bookmarks on the fly the opposite side to each other of target , get closer (having overlay bookmark on selected item ready ) de cloak / bomb/warp by clicking slected item as usuall ;)

Never have to really align .


Hope i have this right ?


As always.. great changes beeing overshadowed by that one "wtfwereyouthinking"-

sssssh :P its a seacrate :P

"The only lesson we ever learn is that we never learn "
Robert Fisk:
Lugh Crow-Slave
#560 - 2014-10-18 19:52:49 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Doddy wrote:
RIP bombing.

Anti capital bomb will be useless against anyone who brings more than one smartbomb in their fleet...

But hey at least solo hunters get a hp boost. If only they hadn't been nerfed by rats preferentially shooting them that might be usefull.



no if you stagger several of the anti cap bomb it can still pass through a few smart bombs


ok, you automatically lose a third of your capping to 2 smartbombs, 2/3rds to 4 smartbombs and any number of bombers will be countered by 6 smartbombs or 1 bomber in position to defensively bomb its own caps.




yes but you would need to fit 6 bombs to your own cap and with this type of bomb you would need more then 1 defensive bomber if they were smart enough not to bomb all from one direction

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble