Player Features and Ideas Discussion

These coming changes are done - When Rapid Launchers were introduced, Devs stated several times the ability to switch ammo type was going to be sorted out. What is it, a year later? And you still can't switch ammo type without a 35 second delay.

Rapid Heavies are worse than useless but Devs are clever - They just came up with more ways to change the way people play the game, so attention to missiles was drawn elsewhere.

Same thing will happen with these changes, no-one is really happy about them (except those who don't use capitals) people have come up with some good alternatives and ideas but Devs are not interested in that. They started writing these changes months ago, they won't throw out months of work because they made a mistake or there is a better alternative, they will keep supporting that mistake (generally by ignoring feedback threads) until they release information about the next major change to how people play. Once the next major change is announced, people will concentrate on it and the original bad idea becomes history.

I'm sure this has been said already but I'm going to say it with two out of forum articles from two of the biggest Eve news sites:

First of all Evenews24:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/12/northern-coalition-consolidates-assets-in-lowsec/

The salient point here is:

"Vince Draken: We have Dread and carrier Caches we need to place before the patch which we will do the day before patch"

Yeah so NCdot will be fairly sorted commeth patch day with various dread and carrier caches at key stations where their 10 jump clone members will strategically place their clones. This will negate most of the effect of the nerf to capitals. Supers will be affected but it's been the slowcat virtually insta-deployable fleet that's been the bane of nullsec for the last year or two. Looks like it's here to stay sadly.

And secondly, arguably Evenews24's opposing news site, The Mittani dot com:

http://themittani.com/features/breaking-fatigue-ducking-new-speed-limit

Have a good read. I know a lot of you will hate the source being the Mittani dot com but it's a decent article stating exactly why these jump nerfs WON'T work. The key paragraph being:

"CCP seems confident that this system would be too difficult to implement and won’t happen. When somebody proposed clone swapping in the comments thread of the dev blog CCP Greyscale responded with this, “The actual logistics of doing this for a reasonable range of target systems are sufficiently involved that we do not expect it to happen in practice.” This may end up being the case, but CCP also predicted that titans would be so hard to build that there would never be more than a handful in the game and that living in wormholes would be so logistically difficult that nobody would ever choose to do it. That hubris is what has given us the state of supercapital proliferation and imbalance that exists today."

This is absolutely spot on! In Eve if there is a way to gain an advantage then eve players will do it.

So here's to more of the same sadly because things may change initially but you can bet you're bottom dollar they'll return to the status quo pretty quickly.

Just for the record I'm no Goon fanboy. I hate goons. You can see that from the 1001 ishtars I've killed over the last 6 months or so. I have no great love for NCdot or N3 etc. What I really hate though is the stagnation in nullsec. It's boring and it's killing the game whilst filling certain individuals' pockets in the process.

I think CCP have been very careful not to nerf things into the ground as they once had a habit of. The result though has often been not going far enough and unfortunately this is a case in point.

TiBBeH

So I ran this idea past some non eve players using the analogy of cars the story goes as such:

Me: so you hear of a brand new BMW that is capable of doing 1000 miles per gallon, It costs you a years wage and an extensive driving licence that takes more than a year to complete.

them: What’s it called ?

Me: The BMW 540 W.I.S, Anyway this car has the ability to carry other cars, all of your furniture and go 400 MPH.

Them: 400 MPH ???

Me: yes it’s an awesome machine, It’s the ultimate car.

Them: Ok I'm sold, Sign me up i want it.

Me: now the dealership drops the bombshell.

Them: there’s always a catch.

Me: as usual, the car never does the 1000 miles, after 48.5 miles it overheats before you can travel again leaving you at the side of the road for 5 minutes and 51 seconds.

Them: well that sucks.

Me: that’s not the extent of it, once you start driving again because the engine retains heat you travel 35.7 miles before stopping expecting it to overheat again, Your expectation is correct but this time you are stranded at the side of the road for 25 minutes.

Them: screw it I would rather take the train.

Me: but what about all the cool features this car has to offer ??

Them: It’s not worth the time investment or money to sit at the side of the road.

Me: But it’s such a cool car if you want you can get a tow to cover extra distance while it cools down.

Them: nope not interested, I buy a car to get around despite all the cool features it’s not worth the trouble.



So even them that have never played eve or have any idea of these changes ( before this conversation ) agree that this "patch" is a pile of crap.

Go try this with people that don't play eve yourself and see what the reaction is.

So I removed all context and people agreed with me.

The only way I would venture more than 5ly away from a low sec or npc null sec station is if either I had a pos as a mid point (10ly max) to rest my "jump fatigue" or if I could carry a pos with me and throw it and the force field up instantly as soon as I had jumped into the next system (and take it down instantly before I made my next jump).

The only way I would take gates is if I had warp bubble immunity because otherwise everytime I hit a bubble on a gate, I would have a very significant chance of losing a multi-billion ISK investment as I slow boated out or through the bubble. I would also have to have a micro jump drive module and +2 to warp drive strength to combat being bumped after jumping through the gate and pointed. Bumping immunity would help too. Because I can't be bothered to organize a fleet of twice the strength of the largest possible hostile presence in the region just to jump a few gates.

PS: I invested a lot into all level 5 carrier skills including jump drive skills, so there should be some thought about how all my train time to level five will in some way be compensated for everything that is being taken away from those skills and abilities. Also, there is this other great spaceship game that I have been watching for a while. Seems like it may be time to switch and given something new a try. Star Citizen! woo hoo!

Someone needs to HTFU.

People are always crying and proclaiming loudly that I AM QUITTING IF YOU DO THIS. They did this with the PI tax changes, proclaiming how it would kill off hisec and how PI could never ever be profitable ever again in hisec, and that this was nothing but a huge buff for nullsec and a conspiracy by the nullsec csm etc etc etc etc. Turned out that hisec PI was profitable again after a month or so, because (shock horror) the players, and the market, adapted.

Same with every other change like the speed nerf, titan subcap dd, blaptitans, titan AOE DD, etc etc etc. They'll adapt to this change as well, and if they're in any way shape or form into strategy games, they'll not just adapt to it, they'll appreciate it.


Yes, that's what I mean, and no, it won't be "difficult to implement".


Except for when you do pony express and still get from one extreme of the map to the other within, say, 10 minutes. Even with pony expressing Greyscale's method will either require one alt per jump (so 13 alts to cover the same amount of space your 32LY radius solution allows), or less if they try to play on the difference between cooldown and fatigue. Or, if they were to attach it to the ship as well, you'll never get there as quickly as is possible with your solution.


The LY changes IS addressing geography issues with geography changes. It's like if you were to take a country and make the mountains surrounding it much higher so it's impossible for tanks to go directly from A to B, they have to go through chokepoint C first.

And you're assuming we WILL be seeing player made gates. Essentially player made gates are already in the game, and they were added pre-nerfed. Then tons of people in hisec bitched and whined about it and they were nerfed even further still. And now they're getting a third nerf when this hits.

Aha!....... Sleep + Coffee = DHUUUUUHHH. Forgot deathcloning. Clone with implant suicides. Install new implant at leisure somewhere else........... change incoming... official player base it is... :)

with regards to implementing.. remember we don't know what in-house tools CCP uses. stuff like the program that clones to SISI or their data miners, scripting composers etc......In short this type change will involve at least one COMMITEE.Ttrust me, been there, done that.

A pilot can do that in an interceptor anyway. Individual ships can be ferried, But the jump capability itself which makes a jump fleet work can only go 9ly a day.

There will have to be as we are supposed to be able to destroy them too. What happens to your choke point when it has no gates?

BLOOP double post

So basically, leave the universe as a flat universe where strategy is barely a concern.


Why? It's a buff to capitals.


Don't take your capitals outside of the range to the pilot's base, then.

But since we're talking about limiting caps to a certain distance from their "jump base", then I suppose we might as well do away with fuel, too.