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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6561 - 2014-10-04 15:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Prince Kobol wrote:


Yss, it will not change the power that current entities have, it will not give smaller entities a chance to take Sov and it will only hurt smaller groups


We shall see.

At least they are trying. And it beats the hell out of the alternatives. Which were specifically:

-nothing
Or
-null block proposals that amounted to easier rent control (occupancy based sov by itself) or RR nerfs allowing them to roll over defensive stalemates more quickly (in the name of 'morale killmails' for those with no chance of winning)

The tears and doomsaying can flow forever, I hope it continues.

Anyone with a brain is embracing these changes. Everyone else has displayed a complete inability to think outside the box or is arguing from what are (surprisingly) hilariously biased viewpoints (those who stand to lose out and insist they wont.

No your probably right. And most the naysaying is probably not mittani and friends spinning up the propaganda machine Blink

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#6562 - 2014-10-04 15:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
davet517 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

Maybe you can enlighten us on how the strategic status quo will change?


I don't know. Nobody does. It's going to depend on what players do.

IF (and its a big if) individual alliances (and god forbid, renters) start declaring independence all over the map and tearing down the infrastructure of their overlords, this change will make it damn hard for those overlords to stop them. Just can't be everywhere at once anymore. The best you can do is try to stomp one upstart at a time, but any upstart with half a brain will know that all they have to do is wait, and retake everything once the overlord has moved on.

IF (and this is just as likely) everyone wants to continue to hold hands and sing kum-by-yah, this change won't stop them. In that scenario, you're going to see little guys getting periodically curb stomped with impunity, because they won't be able to call for aid from the other side of the map and get it in time.

Either one of those things could happen. Neither of them could happen. That's why they call it emergent game play. We'll have to wait and see what players actually do in adapting to these changes.


No, we can't 'know'. But we can look at the 'meta game', the tools in the tool box and use our knowledge of what players will do when presented a barrier to a goal.

In every instance (that I am aware of) where CCP has changed game mechanics with the specific intent of creating specific outcomes, they have failed. As a PVE player, THIS DEBACLE is the most glaring example. Quoting CCP Greyscale:

Quote:
tl;dr There's now a reason to fight for better space again: sov upgrades will spawn better cosmic anomalies in lower truesec space; cosmic anomalies spawned by methods other than sov upgrades are unaffected.


We TOLD them it would NOT work, mainly because they weren't taking some things into consideration, like high sec incursions, high sec mission blitzing, low sec and wormhole isk making activities etc etc. They didn't listen, and this change along with the previous introduction of Dominion Sov system created the current "only worth of being rented out to scrubs" desert that is Sov null now.

Sure, they are later going to overhaul sov and such, but look at their track record. That same track record is why some of us were skeptical that a company that has failed to create any other successful game than EVE was going to be able to pull of WoD and DUST. it took those failures to put them on the right track (Phoenix and Legion) , but how many failures is it going to take to convince them to stop using the same thinking that led to Dominion?
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#6563 - 2014-10-04 15:45:01 UTC
Has CCP said anything about Blops or no, will their buff be the fact that their jumprange has not been dunked?
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#6564 - 2014-10-04 15:46:39 UTC
Draciste wrote:
Give JFs and Rorqs bonus not only to "fatigue" but also to "jump range" and most of the relevant problems with this change is solved.


or give JF cargo capacity like standard freighter :-)

sry for my English :-(
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#6565 - 2014-10-04 15:49:34 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
But like so many other things they've done, it will backfire and make the situation WORSE.

I see. It's a shame I never trained prescience to V. Would've been really useful to know how massive emergent systems with thousands of interconnected parts behave under a given set of changes.


I'm simply looking at the past and how that past thinking played out.

What if people like me are right (like we were right the last few times, when we told them Dominion would work, when we told them that nerfing anomalies would not create more fights but rather just longer high sec incursion wait times etc etc).

I don't know if you have kids, but I do and it's annoying as all hell to see them sprint toward a cliff and fall off, breaking an ankle, over and over and over again while you shout at them to 'think about what they are doing for once" lol. It's kinda like that with CCP sometimes.

I want a fun video game, not some imaginary in game advantage. What CCP is actually doing (thought they don't mean to) is just making things easier for the wrong people and making it where those same people (read Goons and n3pl types) can just make things worse to their own advantage.

Why are so many of you too naive to see this? How many times does history have to repeat?
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6566 - 2014-10-04 15:49:55 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
I Like this changes a lot, And i use JB,s Caps daily. this will generate a loot of fun fights and titan gate caps ^^ Pirate


Only JF's Nerf is bad .... some systems are so so so deep, like drone regions. amount of cynos needed will be over 9000.

and kill the residents :<

i don't think there is a real need to nerf the JF's in any way.


Other than that SUper cool ^^ i sure will get a titan now my self lol Cool

This! If you want null WAY, WAY emptier than now, cut off their ability to supply themselves by making it 28!!!! mids from empire to Outer Passage.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#6567 - 2014-10-04 15:50:00 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I've come full circle on the blops several times. I guess my underlying concern is that they become lightyear shuttles capable of moving pilots across eve the same way that is prevalent now. If they get some relief to maintain that form of pvp, there has to be some mechanism to prevent the lightyear shuttle service.


Giving Blops fatigue isn't going to stop the cap pilots from moving if they want to. An interceptor can move almost anywhere in about 20 minutes. After about 2-3 bridges the interceptor is probably faster than bridging anyways, specially if its a large group.

1) Interceptors
2) Cloaky Nullified T3s
3) Jump Clones
4) Archon gangs fit to warp nearly as fast as frigs =/

Every day I'm wafflin!
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6568 - 2014-10-04 15:52:09 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:
Draciste wrote:
Give JFs and Rorqs bonus not only to "fatigue" but also to "jump range" and most of the relevant problems with this change is solved.


or give JF cargo capacity like standard freighter :-)

Oh gawd, the 28 mids to get back home from empire are still gonna suck, but this could actually work....
davet517
Raata Invicti
#6569 - 2014-10-04 15:52:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:
tl;dr There's now a reason to fight for better space again: sov upgrades will spawn better cosmic anomalies in lower truesec space; cosmic anomalies spawned by methods other than sov upgrades are unaffected.


We TOLD them it would work, mainly because they weren't taking some things into consideration, like high sec incursions, high sec mission blitzing, low sec and wormhole isk making activities etc etc. They didn't listen, and this change along with the previous introduction of Dominion Sov system created the current "only worth of being rented out to scrubs" desert that is Sov null now.

Sure, they are later going to overhaul sov and such, but look at their track record. That same track record is why some of us were skeptical that a company that has failed to create any other successful game than EVE was going to be able to pull of WoD and DUST. it took those failures to put them on the right track (Phoenix and Legion) , but how many failures is it going to take to convince them to stop using the same thinking that led to Dominion?


What they weren't taking into consideration is that the average 0.0 dweller doesn't really want to fight. They gave people a reason to fight for better space. They can't actually make you do it. They tried to introduce a conflict driver into the game, and failed. At least they tried. Did you have a better idea?

It's the same with this change. It opens up OPPORTUNITIES for folks who are interested in taking some risks and seizing them. It's not going to force anyone to actually do it. If people are happy in their sea of blue grinding away, nothing will change.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6570 - 2014-10-04 15:54:26 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Glathull wrote:
This is the most amazing change of all time, including Incarna.

I love it.


Remind me again how Incarna worked out for subscriptions


The straws

They are being grasped

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Prince Kobol
#6571 - 2014-10-04 15:55:26 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Glathull wrote:
This is the most amazing change of all time, including Incarna.

I love it.


Remind me again how Incarna worked out for subscriptions


The straws

They are being grasped


What straws.. he said Incarna was great and I asked a simple question
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6572 - 2014-10-04 15:55:37 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:
tl;dr There's now a reason to fight for better space again: sov upgrades will spawn better cosmic anomalies in lower truesec space; cosmic anomalies spawned by methods other than sov upgrades are unaffected.


We TOLD them it would work, mainly because they weren't taking some things into consideration, like high sec incursions, high sec mission blitzing, low sec and wormhole isk making activities etc etc. They didn't listen, and this change along with the previous introduction of Dominion Sov system created the current "only worth of being rented out to scrubs" desert that is Sov null now.

Sure, they are later going to overhaul sov and such, but look at their track record. That same track record is why some of us were skeptical that a company that has failed to create any other successful game than EVE was going to be able to pull of WoD and DUST. it took those failures to put them on the right track (Phoenix and Legion) , but how many failures is it going to take to convince them to stop using the same thinking that led to Dominion?


What they weren't taking into consideration is that the average 0.0 dweller doesn't really want to fight. They gave people a reason to fight for better space. They can't actually make you do it. They tried to introduce a conflict driver into the game, and failed. At least they tried. Did you have a better idea?

It's the same with this change. It opens up OPPORTUNITIES for folks who are interested in taking some risks and seizing them. It's not going to force anyone to actually do it. If people are happy in their sea of blue grinding away, nothing will change.


But but track record
And dominion

Lol

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
davet517
Raata Invicti
#6573 - 2014-10-04 15:56:59 UTC
IMO, what they should do with JFs is give them a high slot so that they can cloak while waiting out these timers.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#6574 - 2014-10-04 15:58:51 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


Greyscale you have my prayers buddy I may not like it.. I may even foam at the mouth on your twisted way (sadistic way sometimes) of adding timers.. but i'll deal with it.... Carry On..



Eve Online: Phoebe..aka Attack of the Devs! muahahahahahahahahahahah

if i'm not mistaken, greyscale is the one who put this terible sov system that we all hate up in the first place; sooo, take care what you pray for, my friend Blink
Darferan
Perkone
Caldari State
#6575 - 2014-10-04 15:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Darferan
I hope when i cancel i have the ability to properly attribute blame for this.

By developing my skills I have earned the ability to use move my ships further distances in a shorter amount of time.
LR travel is one of the most tedious parts of EVE.

If you want bigger fights, just fix the economy, make things cheaper and we'll all have more fun.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#6576 - 2014-10-04 16:00:16 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:
tl;dr There's now a reason to fight for better space again: sov upgrades will spawn better cosmic anomalies in lower truesec space; cosmic anomalies spawned by methods other than sov upgrades are unaffected.


We TOLD them it would work, mainly because they weren't taking some things into consideration, like high sec incursions, high sec mission blitzing, low sec and wormhole isk making activities etc etc. They didn't listen, and this change along with the previous introduction of Dominion Sov system created the current "only worth of being rented out to scrubs" desert that is Sov null now.

Sure, they are later going to overhaul sov and such, but look at their track record. That same track record is why some of us were skeptical that a company that has failed to create any other successful game than EVE was going to be able to pull of WoD and DUST. it took those failures to put them on the right track (Phoenix and Legion) , but how many failures is it going to take to convince them to stop using the same thinking that led to Dominion?


What they weren't taking into consideration is that the average 0.0 dweller doesn't really want to fight. They gave people a reason to fight for better space. They can't actually make you do it. They tried to introduce a conflict driver into the game, and failed. At least they tried. Did you have a better idea?


No I don't, and didn't back them. I don't get paid to design games. I'm simply counseling actual game designers to use evidence based thinking instead of relying on ideology, an ideology that has FAILED time and time again to the detriment of all.

Quote:

It's the same with this change. It opens up OPPORTUNITIES for folks who are interested in taking some risks and seizing them. It's not going to force anyone to actually do it. If people are happy in their sea of blue grinding away, nothing will change.


Which is why this is a dumb idea. CCP should (in my laymen outsider's opinion) always concentrate of giving people more tools to counter stuff with rather than trying to nerf their way to specific outcomes.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#6577 - 2014-10-04 16:06:15 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Glathull wrote:
This is the most amazing change of all time, including Incarna.

I love it.


Remind me again how Incarna worked out for subscriptions


The straws

They are being grasped


What straws.. he said Incarna was great and I asked a simple question


I don't care how it worked out for subscriptions. I care that it was a bloody good show.

As far as subs goes, well, if you add up all the accounts people are threatening to unsub in this thread, it's more than the total number that we currently have. Pardon me if I suspect there is some exaggeration going on.

Anyway, carry on. Don't mind me. I'm just people-watching anyway.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#6578 - 2014-10-04 16:06:21 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


Greyscale you have my prayers buddy I may not like it.. I may even foam at the mouth on your twisted way (sadistic way sometimes) of adding timers.. but i'll deal with it.... Carry On..



Eve Online: Phoebe..aka Attack of the Devs! muahahahahahahahahahahah

if i'm not mistaken, greyscale is the one who put this terible sov system that we all hate up in the first place; sooo, take care what you pray for, my friend Blink



I hope greyscale and seagull get married and as a celebration they decide to distribute moon goo all over the place including High sec....

yeah I said it NOW WHAT!
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6579 - 2014-10-04 16:14:55 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
exiik Shardani wrote:
Draciste wrote:
Give JFs and Rorqs bonus not only to "fatigue" but also to "jump range" and most of the relevant problems with this change is solved.


or give JF cargo capacity like standard freighter :-)

Oh gawd, the 28 mids to get back home from empire are still gonna suck, but this could actually work....


A good reason to not do this is then sov upgrades are trivial to install.
Pistonbroke
Super Villains
Pandemic Horde
#6580 - 2014-10-04 16:15:17 UTC
I wonder about just how much of this change revolves around "giving them what they have asked for" petulance from CCP, and how much is about trying to combat falling subscription numbers by forcing even more alts on people.

The concept of reducing the ludicrous ability to cross eve in 10minutes flat, I applaud.

The approach, however is so overdone it's like cooking a steak with a flamethrower and napalm, until it's carbonized, when the customer asked for medium rare, but could probably live with medium.

CCP please recognise that this level of negative feedback probably has some rational grounding. Go and rethink, then come back with your homework redone; please don't force us to have 10 accounts just to move the stuff we need from Jita to our bases in null.