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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Anthar Thebess
#6501 - 2014-10-04 14:15:26 UTC
Can we get nerf to capital remote assistance modues working without the triage midule?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#6502 - 2014-10-04 14:16:08 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
From reddit

"Are you kidding? Anyone that even thinks about disliking these changes on this sub gets downvoted to hell."

So this is why all the cry babies are over here.


r/eve is the most ignorant out of game community eve has ever seen.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6503 - 2014-10-04 14:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:


Serious question have you done logistics work for your alliance? I have not myself, but I have talked to guys who have, and I do other work for our corp...I know that there is lots of stuff we just can't source locally no matter how hard we try. Even if you could cut the load in half...do the math how long to move 5,000,000 m3?

20 guys out of 1k+ alliance (2% of the population) do one JF run from Orvolle-Adacyne-Maut-Alparena-JF TO CLOUD RING?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6504 - 2014-10-04 14:19:58 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. tIt's going to be amazing.

Oh it will change null. That part will happen pretty definitely. Carriers and Supers taking gates, fatigue, 5ly jump cap, all that stuff, yeah null changes.

Now I don't think these changes will kill the blocs. That's just dumb, you could remove jump drives entirely and still not overcome the null bears instinct to huddle together for safety. It's human nature, you can't beat it.

I do think the bloc's territory will shrink just a bit. North to south, the CFC is around 94 LY give or take. East to west, it varies a bit, but at all points it's between 20-50 LY deep. That's quite a bit of space to maintain, with thousands of towers screaming for fuel. I don't envy the people that have to import all of your ice. So yeah, you'll probly shrink a bit.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6505 - 2014-10-04 14:22:08 UTC
Code2200 wrote:
I feel like everyone is freaking out over something that isn't even being tested right now. This is their current idea for what they are planning, yes however, its not on test servers yet so they have no way of actually seeing it play out in any form other then simulations. Which we all know never show the true form. Eve players have always pushed the limits of CCP's code and gameplay mechanics. So of course a simulation will not show them everything that is going to result from this. So instead of freaking out and saying you quit offer ideas and be calm. Wait for everything to get on the test servers cause only then will we all be able to see how the idea will play out and if it doesn't it gives CCP a chance to quickly change the restrictions before its released. The majority of you all are freaking out over an idea on paper and its stupid. All in all talk is cheap give them ideas and wait for actions!!!!


*hops off soapbox*



So here's how the wh kick in the junk worked.

They stealth added the wh ending changes to the test server. Someone found them. We all ranted for 100s of pages about how it will ruin wh. They ignored us. They implemented the changes on TQ. A lot of folks left wh space (for various reasons).

So here's how the null kick in the junk will work.

They pre announce it. A several hundred page whine fest occurs (which is sad that a small fraction of wh peeps can generate roughly 200 pages of whine and the massive null power blocks are only up to page 300 - it's like there isn't anyone playing in null) They'll put it on sisi, you'll whine some more. They'll put it on TQ and even more folks will quit.

Those that don't quit will brace them self as the wrecking ball makes a second pass. More whines. BOOOM. That one will hit. A few more folks will unsub. The wrecking ball will hit again. BOOOOM. and so on until they are done.

I've been called obtuse which suits for big picture stuff. One more time ffor those slow on the uptake. Null is boring. Logins started falling off and that trend continued. Subs started falling off and that continued. If things are left to their present course eve will end up as high sec on line. I'd say it's pretty close to that now.

All you guys crying a dragging your feet aren't getting it. Boring is going out the window. All your maths and arguements aren't going to alter CCPs course change. They are turning the ship before it hits the rocks. Running around on deck shreeking like a little girl won't make the rocks disappear and it won't keep ccp form turning the ship.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6506 - 2014-10-04 14:24:40 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
From reddit

"Are you kidding? Anyone that even thinks about disliking these changes on this sub gets downvoted to hell."

So this is why all the cry babies are over here.



Nothing to do with reddit ...particularly /r Eve being full of simpering mouthbreathers. Y'know, like TEST.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#6507 - 2014-10-04 14:31:41 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.


Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.


- massive nerf to capital ship power projection
- nerf to structure HP
- occupancy based sov

Everyone except the dumbest ones see that these will certainly change nullsec.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#6508 - 2014-10-04 14:32:39 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Oh it will change null. That part will happen pretty definitely. Carriers and Supers taking gates, fatigue, 5ly jump cap, all that stuff, yeah null changes.

Now I don't think these changes will kill the blocs. That's just dumb, you could remove jump drives entirely and still not overcome the null bears instinct to huddle together for safety. It's human nature, you can't beat it.

I do think the bloc's territory will shrink just a bit. North to south, the CFC is around 94 LY give or take. East to west, it varies a bit, but at all points it's between 20-50 LY deep. That's quite a bit of space to maintain, with thousands of towers screaming for fuel. I don't envy the people that have to import all of your ice. So yeah, you'll probly shrink a bit.
Interceptors and the fact that many of us abandon battleships pretty much all over nullsec means that getting about wont be much of an issue and even if that weren't the case, most of us have plenty of experience flying 30 jumps in a battleship blob. JFs will be small enough waits that we just need to add extra pilots at some of the mid point to move stuff around and change routes to go through friends space to wait out timers. Most of our fuel to individual towers is done in T2 transports anyway.

But yeah, null will change, it just won't be much negative impact for the blobs, since we're organised enough to be able to take it in our stride. The smaller null groups though, they aren't going to start jumping in and taking space, since they will still need to fight thousands of subcaps to do it, especially for assaulting one of our structure since we'll have hours to get people there and will know that we can see a PL blob coming a mile away.

At the end of the day, the people who think this is a mega nerf to the blobs will eventually realise that this is a standard global nerf, and the people in a position to be least impacted by it are the blobs. You guys are already being propped up by donations, so once logistics become tight and you can't call for support if you get dunked, you'll find it much harder to keep plodding on. Blops gangs are the ones that will take it hardest, since they'll have tight restrictions on how often they can attack and a risk of getting stranded in hostile space if they have fatigue.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#6509 - 2014-10-04 14:33:54 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.


Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.


- massive nerf to capital ship power projection
- nerf to structure HP
- occupancy based sov

Everyone except the dumbest ones see that these will certainly change nullsec.



Then you are dumb...
Klara 'Karotte' Krone
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6510 - 2014-10-04 14:36:55 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
324 pages of mainly negative responses to this announcement and not one constructive comment from CCP Dev's as to why they feel so dead set on making these changes except to vomit the usual excuses that this is 'AN IMPROVEMENT' wtf are you guys smoking in that office, moving Supers by gates, like that is gonna happen.

As for the CSM, shamed to have you represent us, my initial recommendation when I first became aware of this PvP cluster ****, was to say disband it as it only promotes unbalance across EVE as a whole, not really what this game was about is it??.

As for the changes themselves, I see no problem at all with making Capital 'Combat' ship movements more difficult, I do however see problems with tinkering with the logistics side of things for those people CCP ostensibly encouraged to go live in Null Sec and predict a reversal of flow on this one point alone, 90% bonus for JF and Roquals, just could not resist slipping that one in could you, the rest of it is just trivial rubbish to be honest when you really look through it, badly thought out and like so many other times BADLY PROMOTED.

Dev's wrote the code for the tools on hand and now there squealing 'foul and exploit', when players use those mechanics to do something they had not thought about, ...Maybe one day the Devs will understand that they cannot force players to do anything really, if the idea is not good for players they simply will not engage with it and bad ideas just taint the game overall leaving the feeling that maybe paying sub's to CCP for something that ultimately is a let down and does not provide the balanced game play over all the many facets it offers down to one simple change like the current trend to nerf logistics time and again gives rise to the thought that CCP really don't have any positive direction for EVE at all, 'Death by a thousand cuts' has been mentioned here in the past.

If living in Null Sec proves non-viable players will simply move back to Empire space and kicking Logistics in the nuts in this manner only indicates it will. If they believe trade hubs will suddenly spring up in 0.0 space all 5 ly apart they really have not thought it through very well have they, and not everyone in game wants to just kill everything they see no matter were they chose to live in EVE. some play it to build things, no viable outlets, no production, simple as that.

I for one am currently planning to move assets out of Null Sec on 13 accounts before this game killer is brought in and then un-sub 10 of them, a large percentage of the industrial heart of my Corporation, all paid for cash, and I can assure CCP they will not be re-subbed any time soon and I would advise anyone in game that feels this type of change is negative do the same, CCP accountants will soon put a stop to this buffoonery when it hits the dollar value of the game, and that is the true nature of a CSM, player choice.



Well said marly. All those so called couch experts who shoot things all day and don't have a clue about logistics, i suggest you give logistics a read before you put your worthless comment on the dev blog.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6511 - 2014-10-04 14:37:43 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


NULL IS ALREADY DEAD
Get that through your head.

No one cares about it,
no one flies in it.
Any change is good change.



http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats

So numbers seem to give your claim the lie. All the top activity is going on in null - and HERO is generating tons of content in sov null. All this and more with everyone power projecting at once into our space. Oh noes! People can play with us and not just be isolated into their part of the map!!!!!!!

Quote:


Power projection permeates all game activity now. Everywhere. Pew pvp and market pvp.

The game is growing more stale by the day.
Concurrent player count is evidence of this.


I still fail to see how making everyone much further apart and adding long timers to normal game play will in any way make eve more fun and less stale.

Making space long and tedious to move across will create a strong disincentive to move around. Space will calcify. Maybe some regions will go up for grabs. But that's a short term phenomenon. Once that transient period ends, it'll just be entrenched neighbor vs entrenched neighbor. No more 3rd parties or bat phones for variarion of content. Not being able to be bat phoned means there will be less fights you can choose to be a part of.

Think about it this way - without power projection the likelihood you will be in a fight at any given moment is the frequency with which fights happen near you. With power projection it's the joint probability of near your or far from you. The likelihood of fighting with power projection for any individual player is therefore much greater with power projection.

It's insane to think that making space bigger in any way creates more content. It doesn't eve create more indy content because you'll still be importing from Jita, but you'll just be moving your null market systems from less strategic militarily systems to more strategic logistically.

If they really want to nerf power projection just make a 25LY cap on jumping per day applicable to all combat capitals. That way it takes a few days to go across space but within regions you can jump across rapidly. That allows defense and offense to be quick and fun. Making the staging to a fight take 40 minutes structurally is absolutely stupid.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#6512 - 2014-10-04 14:38:22 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.
Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.
- massive nerf to capital ship power projection
- nerf to structure HP
- occupancy based sov

Everyone except the dumbest ones see that these will certainly change nullsec.
Change, yes. Change in the way many of the anti-null guys seem to be expecting, not so much. People want null to be more hostile and less stable, with space actually being fought over and changing hands. These changes are more likely to turn the core systems of null coalitions into impenetrable fortresses and rental income into "pay us to leave you alone for the next month". It's certainly not going to pave the way for small alliances to take over portions of null and not get crushed into a fine paste while trying.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6513 - 2014-10-04 14:38:56 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
From reddit

"Are you kidding? Anyone that even thinks about disliking these changes on this sub gets downvoted to hell."

So this is why all the cry babies are over here.

failheap is rejoicing with these changes as well.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6514 - 2014-10-04 14:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eigenvalue
Forum fail deleted
Elvalee
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#6515 - 2014-10-04 14:42:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.
Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.
- massive nerf to capital ship power projection
- nerf to structure HP
- occupancy based sov

Everyone except the dumbest ones see that these will certainly change nullsec.
Change, yes. Change in the way many of the anti-null guys seem to be expecting, not so much. People want null to be more hostile and less stable, with space actually being fought over and changing hands. These changes are more likely to turn the core systems of null coalitions into impenetrable fortresses and rental income into "pay us to leave you alone for the next month". It's certainly not going to pave the way for small alliances to take over portions of null and not get crushed into a fine paste while trying.



I do agree!
CCP Start thinking before acting!
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6516 - 2014-10-04 14:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Lucas Kell wrote:

But yeah, null will change, it just won't be much negative impact for the blobs, since we're organised enough to be able to take it in our stride.

Yeah, probably. But it will still change, which is at least an improvement on the status quo. And given that this is only the first of at least 3 changes, this is probably a good thing.

Lucas Kell wrote:

The smaller null groups though, they aren't going to ....

How many "small" null groups are their really? There are maybe 4 in the galactic west, and a handful in the galacticeast. The ones in the west occasionally poke someone and do something minutely noticeable. The ones on the east half mostly farm in stain.

IMO the notion that smaller entities will be able to "take" sov while the two large coalitions still exist is a red herring that people use when they don't like a particular set of changes. "But think of the little guy" my-ass.

Edit: ******-up east and west
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6517 - 2014-10-04 14:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Eigenvalue wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


NULL IS ALREADY DEAD
Get that through your head.

No one cares about it,
no one flies in it.
Any change is good change.



http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats

So numbers seem to give your claim the lie. All the top activity is going on in null - and HERO is generating tons of content in sov null. All this and more with everyone power projecting at once into our space. Oh noes! People can play with us and not just be isolated into their part of the map!!!!!!!

Quote:


Power projection permeates all game activity now. Everywhere. Pew pvp and market pvp.

The game is growing more stale by the day.
Concurrent player count is evidence of this.


I still fail to see how making everyone much further apart and adding long timers to normal game play will in any way make eve more fun and less stale.


Lack of vision on your part does not constitute an error on mine.

Your suggestion that ~goodfights~ will become more rare and pvp will dry up because people cant hotdrop as far is laughable.

But 98% percent of you doomsayers werent around to see how good this game was prior to power projection, so I suppose you can only be faulted so much for your lack of vision and inability to think outside of the current meta.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#6518 - 2014-10-04 14:51:06 UTC
Elvalee wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Honestly, I just can't wait for them to be released, the main null sov holders to not change at all, and in fact defend themselves easier and fight each other less, then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. It's going to be amazing.
Its often I agree with Lucas but he has it bang on.

That is thing, people who traditionally oppose each are agreeing that this will only make things worse.
- massive nerf to capital ship power projection
- nerf to structure HP
- occupancy based sov

Everyone except the dumbest ones see that these will certainly change nullsec.
Change, yes. Change in the way many of the anti-null guys seem to be expecting, not so much. People want null to be more hostile and less stable, with space actually being fought over and changing hands. These changes are more likely to turn the core systems of null coalitions into impenetrable fortresses and rental income into "pay us to leave you alone for the next month". It's certainly not going to pave the way for small alliances to take over portions of null and not get crushed into a fine paste while trying.



I do agree!
CCP Start thinking before acting!


Well said - I though CCP wanted to remove the power blocks and not give them more power!

Monasucks Tumblr

Twitter

"A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead."
BuddyKnife
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6519 - 2014-10-04 14:52:04 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


NULL IS ALREADY DEAD
Get that through your head.

No one cares about it,
no one flies in it.
Any change is good change.



http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats

So numbers seem to give your claim the lie. All the top activity is going on in null - and HERO is generating tons of content in sov null. All this and more with everyone power projecting at once into our space. Oh noes! People can play with us and not just be isolated into their part of the map!!!!!!!

Quote:


Power projection permeates all game activity now. Everywhere. Pew pvp and market pvp.

The game is growing more stale by the day.
Concurrent player count is evidence of this.


I still fail to see how making everyone much further apart and adding long timers to normal game play will in any way make eve more fun and less stale.


Lack of vision on your part does not constitute an error on mine.

Your suggestion that ~goodfights~ will become more rare and pvp will dry up is laughable.

But 98% percent of you doomsayers werent around to see how good this game was prior to power projection, so I suppose you can only be faulted so much for your lack of vision and inability to think outside of the current meta.


We have a department for that.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#6520 - 2014-10-04 14:52:19 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:


http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats

So numbers seem to give your claim the lie. All the top activity is going on in null - and HERO is generating tons of content in sov null. All this and more with everyone power projecting at once into our space. Oh noes! People can play with us and not just be isolated into their part of the map!!!!!!!



A lie? Did you even look at the link you posted? According to those stats, there's exactly two null regions with over 1K kills, when in empire space there's 9 regions. Note the NPC null regions as well.

Empire top ten: 17716 kills
Null top ten: 6806 kills

Yes, currently nullsec is dead.