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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6301 - 2014-10-04 05:24:07 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

BlueJeff Azul wrote:

Wait a second! You make an announcement of this importance , which affects all of 0.0, reduces all the hard work and planning to get to jump ships and you have yet to test this new, and shiny, development? Seriously? Who the heck is your marketing team? Are they aware of your plan to anger paying customers in this fashion?


P.S. RL example of poor marketing: Hey, lets change the formula of Coke and name it New Coke! Great idea! Guess what? New Coke bombed...do a frakkin focus group before ya drop bombs like this crap


This thread *is* our focus group.


So you will be compensating us for our time right? And compensating us for using us (without our permission) as a focus group? Isn't the CSM (a group of player elected highly competent and experienced individuals) suppose to be your focus group?



If you feel you need compensated for your time playing eve you must really hate it (that makes me sad, but explains what follows).

You're paying to use their service (eve). You don't have a right to be compensated for quallity control and benchmarking.

Isn't the CSM supposed to be your focus group? Wait what? They're giving you a direct input and taking out the middle man and your complaining about that too?

I wouldn't even try to satisfy a customer such as you. It's too much work AND hopeless. I'd have a better chance of taking Fountain with my current corp than making you happy. Go eat another lemon!

RL example of your attitude: This gold brick you gave me is too heavy.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#6302 - 2014-10-04 05:24:49 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

BlueJeff Azul wrote:

Wait a second! You make an announcement of this importance , which affects all of 0.0, reduces all the hard work and planning to get to jump ships and you have yet to test this new, and shiny, development? Seriously? Who the heck is your marketing team? Are they aware of your plan to anger paying customers in this fashion?


P.S. RL example of poor marketing: Hey, lets change the formula of Coke and name it New Coke! Great idea! Guess what? New Coke bombed...do a frakkin focus group before ya drop bombs like this crap


This thread *is* our focus group.


So you will be compensating us for our time right? And compensating us for using us (without our permission) as a focus group? Isn't the CSM (a group of player elected highly competent and experienced individuals) suppose to be your focus group?


Buy the ticket, take the ride..

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6303 - 2014-10-04 05:38:12 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Crysantos Callahan wrote:

Did you already run tests with larger capital/supercapital fleets using gates and the possible bumps that will happen?


- Yup.... There's no good way to warp 20 titans to a gate at once without bumping, though.


Hey look, this sounds familiar. Apparently titan bumping isn't fixed or even manageable at all. Rework your code please and then revert the cyno changes you made last patch. Thanks.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6304 - 2014-10-04 05:47:00 UTC
Unbridled Hate wrote:
Congrats CCP, you've yet again alienated the long-time players! If these changes are implemented, and turn out to be as bad as I think they are, I'm sure you'll find a lot of people un-subbing their accounts. I love capital ship warfare, but with these changes, we are highly unlikely to ever see any good capital fights. Hopefully the last 8.5 years I've spent playing wasn't for nothing! I'd hate to see CCP do something this stupid and ruin this game.


You know whats funny? I browsed several web sites and forums populated by bitter vets of eve, people who left the game because of the cesspool it had become, after hearing about the changes excitement among those also long term players, some from 2003/2004 even, ran high. The general consensus was that if these changes would come through they would definitely re-sub to see at least how it plays out.

So it seems CCP instead of "alienating" long term players seems to attract quite a lot of ex players to return to the game.

Another thing thats funny, the loudest whiners are those from the CFC followed closely by the renters, now what do they have in common? They generally do not want to pvp much if it involves too much effort or brain power for the masses, and are more interested in mounting up isks through ratting, running anomalies 23,5/7. Now that logistics might get harder and involve "gasp" team play to get your ratting/anom/WH loot to Jita they are out in force crying.

Maybe the jump fatigue thing needs some tweaking, thats why they announced it now to gather feedback and ideas how they might tweak it but in general it is necessary to keep the game up and running. Right now the bulk of accounts logged into EvE are alts powered by ISboxer and even these numbers are low compared to last year.
Josef Djugashvilis
#6305 - 2014-10-04 05:51:20 UTC
CCP have foot - stomped the stagnant null-sec puddle.

Whatever happens now, at least it will be interesting.

With the greatest respect for those who have spent the time to train Titans etc, your days of hot dropping cruisers on the far side if the universe are over.

It may well be the case that the game gains more players, both in total, and in null-sec than will actually rage quit as a consequence of the changes.

I look forward to further announcements on the proposed changes to null.

This is not a signature.
Big Lynx
#6306 - 2014-10-04 05:51:52 UTC
nintwo wrote:
There are a 101 ways they could have achieved the goal of making null less "stagnant" but as normal CCP's way of addressing an issue it go full ******, and think of crap like this.



Ok, tell me 12 ways out of your 101 my lil tearbear.
Harry Juana
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6307 - 2014-10-04 05:53:04 UTC
xXThe EntityXx wrote:
You guys need to consider the ramifications of lowering the jump range to 5 LY in terms of NPC null sec access. I know for a fact that this will make access to Venal impossible for anyone other than those who own the SOV of Tribute, simply because you need the max range to skip over Tribute and land in H-PA. I can't say anything for sure about the other NPC nullsecs.


Muhahahaha bye bye Venal, you wont be missed, your inhabitants never gave us meaningful content anyway other than to fly around in interceptors and a 'we dont wanna fight just gank' attitude.

While we are at it, why not remove all of null sec npc space and make it player sov?
It will add great content to the game, new territory to fight over. Imo there should be no npc space in null sec.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6308 - 2014-10-04 05:54:55 UTC
Sure, but make sure you buff the value of null sec systems, since its goin to be a pain in the ass to take and hold systems now.

I have more space likes than you. 
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6309 - 2014-10-04 05:55:19 UTC
Oh and to all those claiming Rooks and Kings would be pipe bombing the capital pilots zipping to their cache's via ceptors a couple of points for you to consider:

1. Fatigue
2. 5 LY bridge range.

Pipe bombs are going to go the way of hot drops.
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6310 - 2014-10-04 05:57:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

We're probably just going to put a hard cap on the max fatigue.

As it stands now though, a little under 8000 years.

(A)

Retar Aveymone wrote:
This is making me go even more :wtf: over the jump freighter changes:

Quote:
TMC: Does CCP consider it as important that Empire be more "distant" from nullsec space as they do that nullsec should be more difficult to traverse? How does CCP see this interacting with recent developments that makes nullsec less dependent upon highsec industry?

CCP Greyscale: Not especially, no. Obviously the effect here is hugely dependent on how far out into null you live, but we aren’t explicitly trying to lengthen the Jita<->2R-CRW distance. We do want nullsec to be more self-sufficient in industrial terms, but that’s a longer-term project that only somewhat overlaps with the changes we’re making here.


http://themittani.com/features/ccp-greyscale-long-distance-travel-changes

I mean, you've just changed it from 1 midpoint to 4, a 250% increase in effective 'distance' (time spent traveling) because of the jump freighter range nerf - and that is virtually the only effect of the jump range nerf (the other being making certain NPC sov absolutely inaccessible without midpointing in sov space). How on earth does this makes sense if your goal wasn't to lengthen the distance?


Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.

(B)

The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale Do you guys have someone asking the question "is this fun?" during the development process? ...Right now logistics from deep null-sec to empire spaces takes about half an hour. After this change it will be around 7 hours do you really think people are willing to spend that amount of time on a game for literally no progress or reward?


We ask "is this going to add net positive value to the overall game experience for a sufficient number of players to justify its downsides".

(C)


A) So we at least know we'ill be able to jump again before the end of the world. Thanks for making me fell reassured.

B) But what about moving all the cyno alts? Or the need for twice as many cyno alts?

C) Translation: F**k the the personal, corp, and alliance logistics guys. As long as fights happen we don't care if takes them a day and 20 cynos to make a round trip to supply themselves and their buddies. Logistics is already the worst part of this game. Please stop continually trying to make it worse.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6311 - 2014-10-04 06:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Athryn Bellee
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


I'm not quite au fait with current sov mechanics, but i'm sure most timers aren't less than 24hrs, correct?


Something like that.... But, take, for example NA. If you have 3 renters do this in Insmother, 2 in Detroid, 5 in Paragon Soul... you get the picture Blink


I think you misunderstand renters. Sure they may go camp/roam someone else's space occasionally (or even their own in a relatively cheap ship for defense), but that's only because they have a guaranteed system that they can hole up in and go max-bear mode if anything bad happens. They are the most risk averse breed in Eve. Even high-sec purple bears are better than them since they have to actually take their blinged out ship through several gates sometimes for the missions. Renters are the pilots for whom neither high-sec missions or high-sec incursions weren't enough isk that they felt the need to pay someone to defend their space so they can make isk in near 100% safety with minimal other pilot interaction. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
Suzuka A1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6312 - 2014-10-04 06:07:28 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


But now all the "weekend warriors" are getting on and finding out about the dev blog and this thread, not to mention the there's now 317 pages.

Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H  What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6313 - 2014-10-04 06:10:45 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


But now all the "weekend warriors" are getting on and finding out about the dev blog and this thread, not to mention the there's now 317 pages.


I don't think even CCP Falcon would read every post to 300+ pages this fast, bless his heart.
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6314 - 2014-10-04 06:11:54 UTC
Suzuka A1 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


But now all the "weekend warriors" are getting on and finding out about the dev blog and this thread, not to mention the there's now 317 pages.


He'll pass it off as no new info. By Monday it may double in size though.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.
Demeter Corinth
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#6315 - 2014-10-04 06:18:10 UTC
ziktreyon wrote:
Just remember, youre now taking away the batphones from all of the smaller groups and giving them solely to the big ones (i.e. CFC and TEST basically)

We can afford to have 5 carriers for each capital pilot spaced as necessary, and if some of those get killed we have backup pilots who wont be in combat to move them around.

Im all for getting rid of the batphone...but youre not accomplishing it this way and instead youre making a tedious part of the game (logistics) waaaay waaay more tedious.

If I wanted to be a ****, I would go all out for these changes because they benefit me HUGELY even if they are annoying. It means CFC is now 100% unstoppable. But I dont think youre treading the right road CCP, I know youre smarter than this.



Good luck with that.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6316 - 2014-10-04 06:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Suzuka A1 wrote:

B) But what about moving all the cyno alts? Or the need for twice as many cyno alts?


If you live deep down in 00 (ie. after Phoebe more than 2 mids away from Low sec), you then must depend on others and cannot do your logistics alone anymore. Yay for more forced encouraged cooperation and risk when you chose (allowed yourself the laps to trust/depend on) the wrong cyno person and have a Suddenly Spaceships experience on your carrier/JF in midspace. But more cooperation and less lone-warriors is definitely a more pronounced and overt requirement to live in deeper Sov 00 or many NPC 00.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Galmalmin
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6317 - 2014-10-04 06:22:45 UTC
So, earlier this year I had to abandon my business plan to bring minerals to 0.0 from HiSec via compression through various modules that were then recycled. I had added accounts to have an alt corp in hisec, secured a POS in hisec, populated it with the needed POS modules, secured the BPO's, researched the ME/PE for them to my liking, trained up JF pilots, added accounts and trained up my cyno chain crew, scoured the markets to get the best prices I could for minerals and freightered my purchases to the POS... CCP nerfed the compression business.

So, I adapt to now just compress raw ore at the POS (so I have to go back and start buying raw ore and ship that bulky crap) and start to ship those compressed blocks to 0.0 (never mind the multiple Billions of ISK worth of minerals I have stockpiled for the previous business plan that CCP nerfed for me) and now my cyno chain is null and void? I can not run multiple accounts of JF to haul what I need to haul in the time frame I have to haul it?

Don't tell me to work with others, this WAS my Eve and I played it the way I wanted to, not the way you or anyone else say I should play it. SANDBOX? Bull ****!!


I am done. I started EVEOnline in March of 2009.


Six accounts unsubscribed today, effective between November 16 - 17 depending which account.

Pulling POS and modules down, parking them in station.



No, the stuff is just going to rot in station, ya can't have it.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#6318 - 2014-10-04 06:25:11 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Petrified wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
all I want to know is..where the hell are my firesale caps at? Not seeing market slumps or buy/sell going of the hook

All you emo rage quiting players need to keep your promises and firesail your stuff off in the process.


It's too early for any sales. If there are any it will be after the changes hit SiSi and if CCP leaves the proposed changes as is.



Wait till next week when CCP Greyscale releases the revised version of this dev blog.


heh... imagine tif they made it more strict? Lol



I think some players are assuming too much. The way I read it, so far, there won't be but some minor tweaks before this goes live.

All this grandstanding and declarations of doom has been played too often, without merit, to be effective anymore.

To many instances of players "crying wolf" over things like this. Its gotten old.
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#6319 - 2014-10-04 06:37:16 UTC
Galmalmin wrote:
So, earlier this year I had to abandon my business plan to bring minerals to 0.0 from HiSec via compression through various modules that were then recycled. I had added accounts to have an alt corp in hisec, secured a POS in hisec, populated it with the needed POS modules, secured the BPO's, researched the ME/PE for them to my liking, trained up JF pilots, added accounts and trained up my cyno chain crew, scoured the markets to get the best prices I could for minerals and freightered my purchases to the POS... CCP nerfed the compression business.

So, I adapt to now just compress raw ore at the POS (so I have to go back and start buying raw ore and ship that bulky crap) and start to ship those compressed blocks to 0.0 (never mind the multiple Billions of ISK worth of minerals I have stockpiled for the previous business plan that CCP nerfed for me) and now my cyno chain is null and void? I can not run multiple accounts of JF to haul what I need to haul in the time frame I have to haul it?

Don't tell me to work with others, this WAS my Eve and I played it the way I wanted to, not the way you or anyone else say I should play it. SANDBOX? Bull ****!!


I am done. I started EVEOnline in March of 2009.


Six accounts unsubscribed today, effective between November 16 - 17 depending which account.

Pulling POS and modules down, parking them in station.



No, the stuff is just going to rot in station, ya can't have it.

Don't let the door hit ya where the EVE Gate spit ya.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6320 - 2014-10-04 06:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
Galmalmin wrote:
So, earlier this year I had to abandon my business plan to bring minerals to 0.0 from HiSec via compression through various modules that were then recycled. I had added accounts to have an alt corp in hisec, secured a POS in hisec, populated it with the needed POS modules, secured the BPO's, researched the ME/PE for them to my liking, trained up JF pilots, added accounts and trained up my cyno chain crew, scoured the markets to get the best prices I could for minerals and freightered my purchases to the POS... CCP nerfed the compression business.

So, I adapt to now just compress raw ore at the POS (so I have to go back and start buying raw ore and ship that bulky crap) and start to ship those compressed blocks to 0.0 (never mind the multiple Billions of ISK worth of minerals I have stockpiled for the previous business plan that CCP nerfed for me) and now my cyno chain is null and void? I can not run multiple accounts of JF to haul what I need to haul in the time frame I have to haul it?

Don't tell me to work with others, this WAS my Eve and I played it the way I wanted to, not the way you or anyone else say I should play it. SANDBOX? Bull ****!!


I am done. I started EVEOnline in March of 2009.


Six accounts unsubscribed today, effective between November 16 - 17 depending which account.

Pulling POS and modules down, parking them in station.



No, the stuff is just going to rot in station, ya can't have it.


Mmmm, delicious Goon tears

Edit: Whoops, this isn't my PL alt