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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3961 - 2014-10-02 19:00:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Skyler Hawk wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

In this day and age, jumping will be a commitment so you have to teach people how to understand what kind of commitement their jump create.

"Sorry, did you not understand we told you not to jump before the fleet up? We can't take you on the fleet tonight."
New player retention?

ah yes, those new players and their archons

what scamps they are!

I am talking about JBs.


EVE online, where your misstake will be painfull. Adapt or die and all that stuff...

So new player rentention my ass?
Agrippa Arkaral
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3962 - 2014-10-02 19:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Agrippa Arkaral
Can we get tracking titans back too?
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3963 - 2014-10-02 19:00:33 UTC
*grabs the pretzels and goes along for the ride of how fast this thread is rolling along...

Oh wait - fatigued. *makes a pit stop.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3964 - 2014-10-02 19:00:59 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


i don't understand why this is needed. When i recruited noobs i picked them up at the tutorial systems. Flew them around and showed them a few basics.

so why can't a recruiter pick them up from the tutorial systems once a week in a little noob fleet and fly them to their new home? We have WHs and everything. getting into null is easy.

How many people did you usually recruit per day?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3965 - 2014-10-02 19:01:04 UTC
Ocih wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Ocih wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
machuugoo wrote:
wow worked so hard to get capitals now....... load of b.s.



Why?

Now you can rat in your cap with increased safty... Now you can have a small scale pos battle without the bat phone... heck if you wanted you could even pull out a few super caps and not worry about the bat phone...

I think we have to re-focus our minds on how large eve is. right now we see eve as a small map but after the changes this small map will be like a huge map... and with it the region next to you should be seen as if its on the other side of eve now.


Agreed.
Though tbh, knowing I can tank a large faction POS full faction pimp fit with a single Rev, none of this matters. .


Greyscale did say that pos mods are going to be balanced... So dont expect your single rev being able to tank a death star for long.


We have seen these "Soon" comments before. I've also watched regions burn before "soon" took place.

I'm not going to do the whole "Ima quit EVE" thing but I haven't been to null in years and until I see logistical and defensible Null, I won't be in null. So if it's about vibrant null? That's 5 years down the road for me. I will continue to pay for 2 or 3 months a year and spend the rest of my time playing something else.


right on... i am way too addicted to skill queue online and forum posting to stop my main sub... though my 3 alts have been on ice since 2012 when force projection got totally out of hand due to capital proliferation...

though i think with this new patch every 6 weeks we could have this dream of null sec by the end of next year... Hope to see you in space

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#3966 - 2014-10-02 19:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:

I always thought it was a strong point of eve that each section of space (empire, low and null) depended upon each other for goods etc. . . It made for considerable travel back and forth which in turn brought about non-consensual pvp. By moving towards localization of nullsec, there will be less travel back and forth between empire, low and null, meaning that there will be less reasons for non-consensual pvp. Low will be especially hit hard since there will be less folk transitioning back and forth through low from empire to null. CCP hasnt been focused much on non-consensual pvp of late and in facts seems to be pushing things in the opposite direction with its relatively recent nerfs to crimewatch and now we have the introduction of the DOJO. Over all, I cant say that Im happy with the direction EVE development.
Jita will still be Jita - the largest market in the game. Large volume items like ship hulls will suffer, but it's still ridiculously cheap (space wise) to transport a near "infinite" number of mods from there to wherever you live.

I personally don't do logistics, but there are guys that love doing it and I pay them instead. Black Frog is expensive compared to other commercial haulers - most of which can be found in the in-game channel: Haulers Channel.

Assemble enough ore and mods to fill a blockade runner, put up the courier contract, and then go farm or do some other pve activity to pay for the courier contract (in less time than you would otherwise spend moving the stuff).
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3967 - 2014-10-02 19:02:29 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Grookshank wrote:

I am talking about JBs.


EVE online, where your misstake will be painfull. Adapt or die and all that stuff...

So new player rentention my ass?


The guy will quit because he misses ONE fleet op after making misstake?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#3968 - 2014-10-02 19:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Talking to the logistics guys in our corp, it seems like the new meta will be to transport compressed ore from Jita and then build ships locally. Industrialists will be in low sec/0.0 heaven.

Will take longer per run, but overall there may be an overall time savings if the JF is filled to the top with compressed ore because it will take fewer runs. It might be more efficient to use a blockade runner as well (which apparently carries more in compressed ore than a JF carries in a load of frigates by a factor of 3-4 ?).



I always thought it was a strong point of eve that each section of space (empire, low and null) depended upon each other for goods etc. . . It made for considerable travel back and forth which in turn brought about non-consensual pvp. By moving towards localization of nullsec, there will be less travel back and forth between empire, low and null, meaning that there will be less reasons for non-consensual pvp. Low will be especially hit hard since there will be less folk transitioning back and forth through low from empire to null. CCP hasnt been focused much on non-consensual pvp of late and in facts seems to be pushing things in the opposite direction with its relatively recent nerfs to crimewatch and now we have the introduction of the DOJO. Over all, I cant say that Im happy with the direction EVE development.


Thus the beauty of this even for those of us who know it's a mistake. High Sec (ie many of the people in threads like this cheering about "null sec tears" are about to find out why this change will have a minimal impact on the null status quo while having a decidedly NASTY effect on the rest of New Eden.

Those high sec guys sometimes don't understand how interconnected the game is or who it is buying their mineral, finished goods and LP store items. They sometimes don't understand that that 650 mil Incursion or mission Machariel is that cheap because of the ease of getting it to empire from Curse or other angel space. They don't get that this change is about to SHAFT their way of space-life by drying up aspects of the HIGH SEC market lol.

No, all they can see are null tears. they haven't learned the lesson of real life: rich folks will be ok, it's everyone else that takes the hit. Some of them will learn when plex crosses 1 bil in response to the demand for PLEX for multiple character training Cool
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#3969 - 2014-10-02 19:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Khumm
Is there a hint of when Capitals are allowed to travel in Highsec again?

If so, will there any restrictions? (Like how bombs cannot be launched in Highsec.)

-edit-

WTB Chimera, 1 Bil, Forge lowsec only!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3970 - 2014-10-02 19:02:54 UTC
Rarnak Ki wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


protip... use the stargates for short range trips.

a nano fit niddy can get up to 6.5 AU per second...



Except that using gates is suicide unless you are in a fleet. Sorry, I am not jumping my jump freighter repeatedly through low sec gates. That would just be idiotic. The ability to use a jump drive to move large amounts and high value goods is essential to this game.


I believe that is the key thing. You will need to use fleets, scouts, etc.

Short jaunts through low may require the greater use of Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners. Your destination may need to be revised..

Or you could just probe out a wormhole and use that.

There are options.

Yaay!!!!
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3971 - 2014-10-02 19:04:09 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Now IF CCP would also introduce a new ship like a heavy bomber/piloted fighter bomber that works pretty much like an upscaled fighterbomber already in game, i.e. very good vs supers, good vs caps, bad vs anything else to discourage the idea of nano, warp speed optimized carrier roams and camps to act as some sort of counter then these changes would actually be awesome!

^ Good idea. Stealth Bomber's big brother. They even already have models for them they could scale up, tweak a bit and use for the ships. I would only add that they should be decent but not efficient against battleships too, to add to versatility and keep you from having to reship to do anything if the other side shows up in subcaps.


Make it Cruiser / BC sized, and give it a role bonus to fitting Citadel Torpedo Launchers. Voila.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3972 - 2014-10-02 19:04:12 UTC
for those of you worried about groups in deep null think of this:

Before changes null was simply null. very few differences in location, terrain, and residents (blob or not blob). There was very little difference in the risk or effort involved in living farther away from empire, or right on the border. Now that the nearest lowsec is no longer within 2-3 jumps, but 5-6 for some areas they will become more difficult to live in, adding actual challenge to certain areas of space.

Preferably somewhere down along the line chanhges to rewards for living farther away from empire will increase in tandem. But areas near empire will become more active as the smaller, less logistically or industrially inclined groups will need to stay within reach of resources produced and procured by others.

It should add some diversity to 0.0 and also sort of scale as to how difficult and what kind of playstyles froups use as distance expands.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3973 - 2014-10-02 19:04:38 UTC
Rarnak Ki wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Rarnak Ki wrote:
One big problem is that these changes have the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple jumps over short ranges, say back and forth between two nearby systems. That has nothing to do with force projection and yet will still incur the same penalties as jumping all the way across the universe.


protip... use the stargates for short range trips.

a nano fit niddy can get up to 6.5 AU per second...



Except that using gates is suicide unless you are in a fleet. Sorry, I am not jumping my jump freighter repeatedly through low sec gates. That would just be idiotic. The ability to use a jump drive to move large amounts and high value goods is essential to this game.


man you can blind jump ships threw 0.0 today and not die... I did this a month ago in a non fit Domi just for the lolz in stain went 40 jump without seing a soul.

All this means is you will have to use a scout instead of a cyno alt... and keep an eye out for known blops and you will be fine...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#3974 - 2014-10-02 19:04:57 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:


B). You are not suppose to use your caps to deploy to "hot zones" across the map. The days of owning vast amounts of empty space are over. Decide what space is important to you and live in it.


QFT.


Sure people will own the space they live in, and it will be beyond painful to try to remove them. Stagnation on steroids.


In the old days, do you know how people captures castles sitting on top of cliffs with only one road in and out?

They didn't attack them head on. They seiged them and kept the castle from getting any new supplies - eventually the people inside starve to death and you just walk inside and take the building.

The same basic idea can apply here. Once you have them balled up inside their nullsec "castle", you go out and you choke their logistics and resupply. Of course, the more troops they have, the larger their nullsec castle can reasonably be. But having one group effectively control half the map is going to be a much much harder thing to accomplish, and I have a sneaky suspicion this is going to cause a significant retracting in the size of rental empires as well, since the actual sov holders simply cannot be everywhere at once anymore.

I may be wrong. It's certainly possible. But I think some serious changes are heading for nullsec. Personally, I want to be out there when they hit.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Dovonus
Baja Death Squad
#3975 - 2014-10-02 19:05:19 UTC
I'm liking the direction of the changes here. This will certainly cut down on the ability of certain large groups to hot drop anywhere in the universe on short notice. However, the suggested implementation of the fatigue calculations seems overly harsh.

Since fatigue grows exponentially based on distance traveled and doesn't decay very quickly, a pilot could quickly find himself with a huge cooldown timer, not realizing just how quickly it scales up. A cap on fatigue would work, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as the 30 days suggested in the FAQ. This long of a wait between jumps serves no purpose. I would think that a significantly reduced cap on fatigue/cooldown would be more appropriate. A 30 day cap would render someone's jump skills useless, as any jump would mean they couldn't jump again until next MONTH. One way ticket please.

Rather than the exponential growth of fatigue, it seems a logarithmic growth pattern would be more appropriate for the stated goals. Scale up fatigue quickly on early jumps and then reduce the penalty as more fatigue is added on. This will still prevent groups from quickly moving long distances in very short periods of time as the fatigue will make long distance movement too time consuming. But it would still allowing for longer distances to be traveled with a little more patience by waiting out the fatigue between jumps. i.e. No Hot Dropping, but long distance jump travel is still viable, though more time consuming than before.

Bonuses on JF/BLOPS could be scaled proportionally to achieve the desired travel times as well.
Dread Nanana
Doomheim
#3976 - 2014-10-02 19:05:44 UTC
Add static 0.0 to High Sec WH connections

Each 0.0 region should get a few static 0.0 to High Sec connections so even far flung regions remain accessible despite logistic interdiction at choke points. Without such connections, some regions could easily become "fortresses", unassailable as long as choke points are controlled. Smaller hostile forces, currently easily resupplied by a JF service, can become essentially marooned.
Kali Aldard
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3977 - 2014-10-02 19:06:27 UTC
RDevz wrote:
How does applying any amount of fatigue to a ship which is incapable of taking part in combat (except in the case of extreme comedy fits) add anything to the game except for frustration and alt-tabbing to do something that's actually fun?

Quite clearly, we should fear the massed fleets of battle rorquals and jump freighters carrying combat ships to a war zone.



You mean battle rorquals full of battle barges, right? Since you can only put industrial ships in there.

You can carry, what, 6 packaged battleships in a JF? 0, if they're assembled..
Kreud
Orbit 500
#3978 - 2014-10-02 19:06:28 UTC
By far, this is the biggest and the sweetest change ever introduced into the game (for what I've seen).
CCP don't listen to whiners, they're all sent by Goons and PL. They're afraid of losing their precious wallets already full of iskies.

Keep up the good work and please make the null sec a good place to play, instead of a good place to farm.
/respect for your courage.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#3979 - 2014-10-02 19:06:35 UTC
Bailian Moxtain wrote:
Put ratting back into belts instead of stupid anamolies u gotta scan for, and see roamimg once again rise from the shadows

And btw, u gotta fix bumping if titans and supers are supposed to use gates. Pretty obvious why ..



Something Freighter pilots have been screaming for years.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3980 - 2014-10-02 19:06:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Thus the beauty of this even for those of us who know it's a mistake. High Sec (ie many of the people in threads like this cheering about "null sec tears" are about to find out why this change will have a minimal impact on the null status quo while having a decidedly NASTY effect on the rest of New Eden.

Those high sec guys sometimes don't understand how interconnected the game is or who it is buying their mineral, finished goods and LP store items. They sometimes don't understand that that 650 mil Incursion or mission Machariel is that cheap because of the ease of getting it to empire from Curse or other angel space. They don't get that this change is about to SHAFT their way of space-life by drying up aspects of the HIGH SEC market lol.

No, all they can see are null tears. they haven't learned the lesson of real life: rich folks will be ok, it's everyone else that takes the hit. Some of them will learn when plex crosses 1 bil in response to the demand for PLXE for multiple character training Cool


Quoting for truth.

Other than making our logistics more annoying, this won't change our space whatsoever- it's just making it more annoying to maintain.

Real change will come with a change to Sov mechanics and giving us a reason to not need to control and rent out multiple extra regions.