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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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Lady Areola Fappington
#681 - 2014-09-30 17:24:50 UTC
Six Beavers wrote:


You say the problem is too much mining and etc. By etc. you must mean the freighters hauling the stuff around and those blinged out mission machs.

Ok then the solution is to reduce the growth rate of stuff (mining, haulers, mission runners on route to missions). Ganking an incursion fleet in a site is hard to pull off and i would imagine it's a lot of fun, you call it stupid, but whatever. Still the only way to reduce the stuff is to gank those that have the stuff. Your economic model demands it if we are to get into equilibrium.




In fact, ganking things like freighters, haulers, and such is a lot more efficient way to slow down the "deflation" than ganking miners. I mean, the minerals aren't worth anything till they change hands for ISK, so why spend a 15 minute cooldown ganking one miner, when you can spend a 15 minute cooldown ganking a freighter hauling the sum efforts of (hypothetical) 20 miners?

Plus, every nuked incursion runner is an incursion runner who either needs to buy more stuff, which drives up demand for said stuff, and prices for such, or they quit, which is that much less magical ISK being printed. All of which are great things to have happen, when discussing a hypothetical deflation scenario that isn't occurring

So yes, go out and find the blingiest ships you can, and give 'em the ol' gankarooski. If they ask why, tell 'em you're fixing the economy on the advice of Veers.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#682 - 2014-09-30 18:11:13 UTC
Why are we still not doing phrasing?

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Six Beavers
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#683 - 2014-10-01 11:26:04 UTC
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:
Why are we still not doing phrasing?


If you are talking about musical phrasing then we need to get the bonus room up and running again. Maybe Veers would like to join in on some songs, possibly even double his isk!
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#684 - 2014-10-01 13:27:45 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


.... and give 'em the ol' gankarooski.


Everyone at work looked at me when I laughed out loud and said "hah! gankarooski!"


Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#685 - 2014-10-01 15:03:21 UTC
Dafuq did I jut read over these last few pages? I thought this was a thread to cry like little girls about spaceships getting blown up... Instead I'm reading good ol' Veers talking about the hoosker doos and hoosker don'ts of completely fake money in a completely fake game.... And he's even getting it wrong. o.0

Can we please get more legitimate whiners back in the thread? Cuz you know...thinking sucks on forums.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#686 - 2014-10-01 17:07:41 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
On that note, I officially support nerfing incursions, especially high sec incursions, if for no other reason than driving buffoons like you outta the game.


I have been discretely observing the highsec incursion runner community for some time now, and I have come to the to conclusion that they are the lowest order of EVE players. They are worse even than miners - miners are just lazy and uncreative. While those are certainly character flaws, they are much more innocent in nature than what we see in Incursion runners.

Incursion runners actually work at becoming more bot-like. They obsess over isk per hour, they spare no expense fitting their ships to absolutely optimize their efficiency. Some of them are so far gone that you can't even talk to them as you do to other eve players. They have developed their own dialect. You start a conversation with one of them and they start going on about "vanguards" and "assaults" and all sorts of other nonsensical jargon.

They even come to the forums and try and twist perfectly good threads about those who blow up spaceships and those who cry about it into some kind of argument about the price of PLEX and the nature of the EVE economy. Who gives a crap about the price of PLEX anyway? I'll tell you - incursion runners do. Because they are bad people.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#687 - 2014-10-01 18:24:36 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
On that note, I officially support nerfing incursions, especially high sec incursions, if for no other reason than driving buffoons like you outta the game.


I have been discretely observing the highsec incursion runner community for some time now, and I have come to the to conclusion that they are the lowest order of EVE players. They are worse even than miners - miners are just lazy and uncreative. While those are certainly character flaws, they are much more innocent in nature than what we see in Incursion runners.

Incursion runners actually work at becoming more bot-like. They obsess over isk per hour, they spare no expense fitting their ships to absolutely optimize their efficiency. Some of them are so far gone that you can't even talk to them as you do to other eve players. They have developed their own dialect. You start a conversation with one of them and they start going on about "vanguards" and "assaults" and all sorts of other nonsensical jargon.

They even come to the forums and try and twist perfectly good threads about those who blow up spaceships and those who cry about it into some kind of argument about the price of PLEX and the nature of the EVE economy. Who gives a crap about the price of PLEX anyway? I'll tell you - incursion runners do. Because they are bad people.


2/10.....your suggestion that incursions can somehow be more bot-like than mining (which can actually be botted!) is not a very good troll. Try to come up with a new twist next time. And let's not forget the most bot like activity of all - suicide ganking, which mindlessly done over and over and over again.
Iain Cariaba
#688 - 2014-10-01 20:21:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
On that note, I officially support nerfing incursions, especially high sec incursions, if for no other reason than driving buffoons like you outta the game.


I have been discretely observing the highsec incursion runner community for some time now, and I have come to the to conclusion that they are the lowest order of EVE players. They are worse even than miners - miners are just lazy and uncreative. While those are certainly character flaws, they are much more innocent in nature than what we see in Incursion runners.

Incursion runners actually work at becoming more bot-like. They obsess over isk per hour, they spare no expense fitting their ships to absolutely optimize their efficiency. Some of them are so far gone that you can't even talk to them as you do to other eve players. They have developed their own dialect. You start a conversation with one of them and they start going on about "vanguards" and "assaults" and all sorts of other nonsensical jargon.

They even come to the forums and try and twist perfectly good threads about those who blow up spaceships and those who cry about it into some kind of argument about the price of PLEX and the nature of the EVE economy. Who gives a crap about the price of PLEX anyway? I'll tell you - incursion runners do. Because they are bad people.


2/10.....your suggestion that incursions can somehow be more bot-like than mining (which can actually be botted!) is not a very good troll. Try to come up with a new twist next time. And let's not forget the most bot like activity of all - suicide ganking, which mindlessly done over and over and over again.

Ohh, calling him a troll in the first sentence? I guess the truth truly does hurt, as that was an emotional response to a logical point. Whether or not incursions can actually be botted doesn't mean anything Haedonism stated is blatantly untrue.

I tried to get into incursions a year or so back. The options I were given then were one of two choices, either spend billions of isk o the perfect fit, or train into logi. I chose to train into logi, and after training logistics 5, was given another list of other skills I needed to train to 5 before I would be allowed into fleets, training that ammounted to almost 9 months of training. My response was to say eff that, and I moved into a wormhole where I was still allowed into fleets, even though I lacked perfect skills.

These are your incursion runners. The perfect skilled, perfect bling fit, gods help you if you slow down them maximizing their isk/hr because you've never done incursions before, wannabe bots doing the same sites day in and day out.

At least miners sometimes decide to point beams at a different color spinning rock.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#689 - 2014-10-01 20:33:05 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Ohh, calling him a troll in the first sentence? I guess the truth truly does hurt, as that was an emotional response to a logical point. Whether or not incursions can actually be botted doesn't mean anything Haedonism stated is blatantly untrue.

I tried to get into incursions a year or so back. The options I were given then were one of two choices, either spend billions of isk o the perfect fit, or train into logi. I chose to train into logi, and after training logistics 5, was given another list of other skills I needed to train to 5 before I would be allowed into fleets, training that ammounted to almost 9 months of training. My response was to say eff that, and I moved into a wormhole where I was still allowed into fleets, even though I lacked perfect skills.

These are your incursion runners. The perfect skilled, perfect bling fit, gods help you if you slow down them maximizing their isk/hr because you've never done incursions before, wannabe bots doing the same sites day in and day out.

At least miners sometimes decide to point beams at a different color spinning rock.


An emotional response? Ha! Pointing out that incursions can't be botted, while mining of course can be and frequently is, is not an "emotional response." It' just an objective statement of fact in response to the CODE style fabrications and trolling.

Your experiences with incursions are a)irregular and b)evidence of competence by said community.

There are communities that take new players with low skills (I started running at 2 months with a ship valued a 1 billion isk - others start in 300 mil maelstroms), but other communities prefer to maximize isk/hour and minimize site times. Instead of giving up, you should have reached out to people, and looked for a more suitable beginner community.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#690 - 2014-10-01 20:39:29 UTC
You put words into my mouth, Veers, I never said that incursions were more botlike than mining - I said that incursion runners were worse people than miners. Nobody should waste such effort and expense on worthless, repetetive PVE content. They segregate themselves into their own little community and devote all their energy to grinding away at an activity which contributes nothing to the greater player generated narrative of EVE Online.

There is no breed of carebear as petty and avaricious as the incursion runner. They are worse even than level 4 mission runners.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Iain Cariaba
#691 - 2014-10-01 21:28:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Ohh, calling him a troll in the first sentence? I guess the truth truly does hurt, as that was an emotional response to a logical point. Whether or not incursions can actually be botted doesn't mean anything Haedonism stated is blatantly untrue.

I tried to get into incursions a year or so back. The options I were given then were one of two choices, either spend billions of isk o the perfect fit, or train into logi. I chose to train into logi, and after training logistics 5, was given another list of other skills I needed to train to 5 before I would be allowed into fleets, training that ammounted to almost 9 months of training. My response was to say eff that, and I moved into a wormhole where I was still allowed into fleets, even though I lacked perfect skills.

These are your incursion runners. The perfect skilled, perfect bling fit, gods help you if you slow down them maximizing their isk/hr because you've never done incursions before, wannabe bots doing the same sites day in and day out.

At least miners sometimes decide to point beams at a different color spinning rock.


An emotional response? Ha! Pointing out that incursions can't be botted, while mining of course can be and frequently is, is not an "emotional response." It' just an objective statement of fact in response to the CODE style fabrications and trolling.

Your experiences with incursions are a)irregular and b)evidence of competence by said community.

There are communities that take new players with low skills (I started running at 2 months with a ship valued a 1 billion isk - others start in 300 mil maelstroms), but other communities prefer to maximize isk/hour and minimize site times. Instead of giving up, you should have reached out to people, and looked for a more suitable beginner community.

Train another level of reading comprehansion. The emotional response was calling him a troll for pointing out the truth.

My experiences with incursions were a) the norm of the four groups I contacted, and b) evidence of elitism, not competence.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#692 - 2014-10-01 21:43:21 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Train another level of reading comprehansion. The emotional response was calling him a troll for pointing out the truth.

My experiences with incursions were a) the norm of the four groups I contacted, and b) evidence of elitism, not competence.



Lets compare -

Miners -

1. Mindlessly press F1 every 20 minutes while going AFK in between
2. Can easily be replaced by bots
3. Fit their ships like something out of Alice in Wonderland
4. Tend to have minimal social interaction with anyone else in Eve

Incursion Runners -

1. Routinely face the most DPS for any PvE activity in Eve
2. Lose expensive blinged out ships on a regular basis
3. Face extremely challenging contests
4. Need to perform a variety of complex actions in a site, and cannot be replaced by bots.

Did you try warp to me incursions? And pursuing excellence is nothing to apologize for.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#693 - 2014-10-01 22:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Veers Belvar wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Train another level of reading comprehansion. The emotional response was calling him a troll for pointing out the truth.

My experiences with incursions were a) the norm of the four groups I contacted, and b) evidence of elitism, not competence.



Lets compare -

Miners -

1. Mindlessly press F1 every 20 minutes while going AFK in between
2. Can easily be replaced by bots
3. Fit their ships like something out of Alice in Wonderland
4. Tend to have minimal social interaction with anyone else in Eve

Incursion Runners -

1. Routinely face the most DPS for any PvE activity in Eve
2. Lose expensive blinged out ships on a regular basis
3. Face extremely challenging contests
4. Need to perform a variety of complex actions in a site, and cannot be replaced by bots.

Did you try warp to me incursions? And pursuing excellence is nothing to apologize for.


What miners are doing while AFK technically makes them less bot-aspirant.

Think about it. The incursion runner is willing to actually sit their and do the exact same 3-4 sites over and over and over again, month after month. The miner be like "F dat", and chooses something that allows him to function as an actual human being while doing so.

He's making some chicken on the barbie, or watching episodes of Stargate SG1.

What's the incursion runner doing? Locking a predefined order of NPCs, placing a predefined order of commands on them, then warping to the next site available in the overview list. Isn't that engaging an algorithm?

Hey guys.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#694 - 2014-10-01 23:06:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

2. Lose expensive blinged out ships on a regular basis


Ha ha, what?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#695 - 2014-10-02 01:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

2. Lose expensive blinged out ships on a regular basis


Ha ha, what?


If you're loosing ships on a regular basis doing anything other than suicide ganking you are just plain terrible. This just shows how far out in space Veers is.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#696 - 2014-10-02 02:31:51 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

2. Lose expensive blinged out ships on a regular basis


Ha ha, what?


If you're loosing ships on a regular basis doing anything other than suicide ganking you are just plain terrible. This just shows how far out in space Veers is.


Ya incursion fleets don't regularly lose ships. They don't have SRP programs. You never have logi errors, late broadcasts, lag, disconnects, people taking the wrong gate, people moving out of logi range, logis getting alphad, capital neuts capping out ships, etc...

It's all just fun and games, it's basically a replica of star trek online.

Bravo Code folks, you have once again solved incursions and won the game.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#697 - 2014-10-02 13:35:23 UTC
IIshira wrote:
This just shows how far out in space Veers is.


More like lost in space. P

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Lady Areola Fappington
#698 - 2014-10-02 13:57:08 UTC
IIshira wrote:


If you're losing ships on a regular basis doing anything other than suicide ganking you are just plain terrible. This just shows how far out in space Veers is.



Well, if the anti-gank groups are as competent at incursion running as they are preventing ganks, then yeah, I could see how someone would get the idea that incursion runners lose ships regularly.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#699 - 2014-10-02 18:29:54 UTC
Clearly, a true patriot never let's facts stand in the way of belief.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#700 - 2014-10-02 19:09:00 UTC
Yes incursion SRPs are tiny and unused. And that virtually every community loses more than an expensive ship a day is totally false. Carry on.