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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3841 - 2014-10-02 18:23:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


This is what happened last time CCP tried to 'stimulate conflict' (using the same "nerf things till people fight" thinking as displayed with the current changes).



Their moon change to create conflict did work tho. An entire coalition was destroyed when they shuffled some moons around.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#3842 - 2014-10-02 18:24:23 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Just a few more pages and this will be a bigger threadnaught than the nano-nerf.


Let go people. We need to break both records. Fastest and largest thread Knot in eve history. This is our next B-R movie happening here in the forums. Post faster and lets see if we can get TIDI to happen.
ViRUS Pottage
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3843 - 2014-10-02 18:24:27 UTC
Captn Hammer wrote:
CCP Grayscale,

Congratulations. You've kept a level head and even a sense of humor amid a tidal wave of feedback/rage. Keep it up.



cant understand you with greyscales **** so far down ur throat.
Tribalist
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3844 - 2014-10-02 18:24:36 UTC
StarFleetCommander wrote:
You know when its a good change when it creates this much attention Shocked


So If CCP proposed that Each module required a specific skill for example:
1mn Afterburner required
Afterburner skill
T2 1 mn Afterburner required
Afterburner LVL and (new skill) T2 Afterburner LVL 1

10 MN Afterburner required
Afterburner LVL 3 and (new skill) 10 mn Afterburner
T2 10 MN Afterburner Required
Afterburner LVL 5, 10mn Afterburner LVL 5, T2 Afterburner LVL 5, and (new Skill) T2 10 MN Afterburner

you would be ok with that and, the threadnought opposing it would indicate that it would be a good change?

Really?

I thing that a threadnought indicates player concern, it shows the lvl of passion the player base has to the game.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3845 - 2014-10-02 18:24:54 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Pic'n dor wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Coreemo wrote:
Also, the whole "fix" to deathcloning is a really bad idea. We need SOME way to quickly deploy to a hot area that requires it.


Why? (Serious question.)




Because where it's hot, it's content.
When it's content, it's fun.
When it's fun, it is worth playing.
When it is worth playing, we, player, pay and have fun.

Remove from casual player the ability of quickly catch up is incentive... to play something else...


Remember this http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-online-development-in-2013-and-beyond/
Don't let the enablers ant the instigators alone with followers that can't catch up.
No everyone is playing 24/7...



Take a ship , undock , fly there .... o// problem solved.

OW wait you're affraid you're gonna be too late to enjoy that content , wich will mean there is another side who VERRY much enjoyed their content as the reinforcements came way too late.Those guys also paid to have fun remember ...


You're convincing me even more that CCP is on the right track here ...



Because spending hours gate jumping to play the game is really really boring?

Every single proposed change here is about making eve slower and more boring. The predicate for doing so is that more boring will create more fights. I don't believe it.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#3846 - 2014-10-02 18:25:13 UTC
I guess we should start packing and go back to high sec than.
With those changes pos fuel, mining, pve and pvp in our region will make LOSS.

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#3847 - 2014-10-02 18:25:30 UTC
Murauke wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


I slept on it and I think that CCP's focus on solving the challenge of force projection is on the wrong part of the over all problem.

Punishing people for jumping ships around space in search of enjoyment shouldn't be the focal point of reducing force projection.

In my opinion the cyno mechanic should be the focal point. After all this is what makes it possible to jump capitals around our fictitious universe.

By changing the ease by which a cyno can be deployed this will affect the ease to which a force can projected across the universe .

I worry that by imposing a "time bound" penalty to a branch of the game that has always been about the "sandbox" and the" immediate enjoyment" you will push Eve down a path where it will lose its identity as one of the best MMORPG's in the world.

Focus on the cyno step of jumping ships and this opens up an array of avenues from specific cyno ships, modules, fleet roles, limitations and certain requirements.

Cyno-ing requires 5 days with a new character and that pilot can cyno an entire fleet into a system with next to no difficulty. Personally this is part of the act of force projection that should be the focus, not the punishment to a pilot of jumping his/her ship around space in search for fun.


CCP has(correctly) identified that just making jumping more difficult won't change anything. If you made cyno pilots harder to train, people will just making higher skilled cyno alts. Make it require specific ships and modules and cyno pilots just have to pay a little extra isk. Cynos will still be used for long distance travel every time.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3848 - 2014-10-02 18:25:34 UTC
Miyammato Musashi wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Just a few more pages and this will be a bigger threadnaught than the nano-nerf.

Oh... this will be bigger. This is the biggest game changer since I started playing in '06. Big smile

Edit: Correction - Forgot about warp to zero... the end of regional g2g bookmarks



To be fair the old forums did allow more posts per page... So i dont think we are at those levels just yet.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
#3849 - 2014-10-02 18:25:51 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Don't worry, nullies: CCP only announced this to show us high sec carebear wussies that they wanted to nerf null somehow after all the hits high sec has taken. But it'll be radically changed, or eliminated completely: too many nullies in CSM, nullie friends of GMs, and nullies padding their subscription numbers.

Not to worry: most of it won't happen. Smile

Edit: speeling



The face of tangible fear.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3850 - 2014-10-02 18:26:11 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Why do you want to kill Null-Sec travel for subcaps? With the proposed changes taking multiple jump bridges will be impossible. Image an Alliance living in different parts of one region.

To assemble a fleet it will already put a lot of their pilots on different timers and fatigues values. When they try to reach their goal, they will a) all have to wait for the people with the longest timers or b) drop people at jump bridges.

When poded players want to reship and rejoin the fleet, they will also have to wait out multiple timers.

How does disabling people to take multiple jump bridges make NULL-SEC less static?

The incredibly bad part of having the same changes aimed for caps, applied to subcaps and jump bridges is that you will kill/split of fleets. That's a horrible idea.


Can anyone please check, if this is really what it is going to be to use JBs? I made this assuming a 4LY jump per bridge.
http://imgur.com/K1Tq5fo
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3851 - 2014-10-02 18:26:26 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:
Every single proposed change here is about making eve slower and more boring. The predicate for doing so is that more boring will create more fights. I don't believe it.

You mean "more strategic", something which has been lacking a bit of late.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#3852 - 2014-10-02 18:26:44 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
machuugoo wrote:
wow worked so hard to get capitals now....... load of b.s.



Why?

Now you can rat in your cap with increased safty... Now you can have a small scale pos battle without the bat phone... heck if you wanted you could even pull out a few super caps and not worry about the bat phone...

I think we have to re-focus our minds on how large eve is. right now we see eve as a small map but after the changes this small map will be like a huge map... and with it the region next to you should be seen as if its on the other side of eve now.


Agreed.
Though tbh, knowing I can tank a large faction POS full faction pimp fit with a single Rev, none of this matters. I've said it a million times, others have too. Staying out of Null because hot drop and the skeery super villain are made up excuses to taunt people back in to null and win the forums. Most of us were there and left because it's boring. Most of us played Jump Gate Jenga with Industrials back in 2007, we don't want to do it any more.

Much of the CCP logic I am seeing in replies on this thread neglects to consider that this is one of a lot of nerfs. Things we did in 2008 to get T2 and stuff out of deep null and get stuff in to deep null are no longer available to us. I can't ship player compacted modules that I shipped for the parts, we have a new reproc method now. Carrier range was always a part of deep null logistics, we used to have 4 jump bridges in a system, we now have 2. A lot has changed.

- note: I have no idea what this jump fatigue means. I have yet to find out what it does. Jump timers are on another scale. What if I have 120 years Jump Fatigue? That's a calculated number too by the way. It's possible to get 120 real years of Jump Fatigue. Making it a joke in and of itself but what penalty does that create?

Too little too late isn't really applying here. Too much too late? Over compensating? That seems to be more the effect. Still, I made an argument in the Bloc petition on F&I and it condensed to, if we don't show flexibility CCP would show us iron boots. Here are the iron boots. If Null insist on shooting everything that blinks, breathes and farts? They can have restrained Null.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3853 - 2014-10-02 18:27:46 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
People asked for the change to "help them recruit newbies," CCP responded with a newbie only fix, and then those who asked for the original are upset because in reality they were asking to not nerf power projection.

I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means.


Basically someone brought up the concept of recruiting noobs and bringing them into nullsec, and that by changing current medical clone mechanics, would make it exceedingly difficult to get them in there, diminishing the new player experience.

CCP makes their following change, which provides all non-new characters no reprieve from the change, but still keeps a viable new player experience going for actual new characters and players.

It was an attempt to undo the suggested change for everybody new and old, by putting it all under the veil of "it'll diminish the new player experience".

It was a political play. It did not work.

You and Gospadin must be reading a different thread from what I'm reading, because from where I'm standing we asked for a way to get newbies to our space, and we got it. So we're happy.

No political play or no attempt to "not nerf power projection".


I don't believe it is necessary, but if it is that big of a concern (I can see why), then what CCP proposed regarding medical clones and new characters is fine.

People are trying to meta this thread in quite a few ways, from stating there will be subtile changes, to threats that goods will skyrocket, and that they will leave the game, not ship stuff, hate themselves and that CCP has ruined pizza. Beyond that post, were several asking for quicker and quicker timers. Regardless of that, the change proposed by CCP in this case is fine. Its a option for new characters.

I do fear the issue of the rainyday cyno alt creeping up, but if so, that's alot of plex to train up alt char's just to do that.

Yaay!!!!
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3854 - 2014-10-02 18:28:19 UTC
Flashbang Thereal wrote:
CCP. YOU KNOW THAT YOU WIL HAVE TO COMPLETLY REMOVE EVERYTHING THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WARP BUBLES FROM THE GAME???. The amount of warpdisruption bubles that wil be put up in every 0sec system in eve wil completly destroy any chance of moving anything around exept ceptors. Did you think about that while you where getting drunk down in your thinking hole. If anyone have any sense about market, now is the time to stock up on warpdisruption bubles? They wil be on high demand in nowember when supercaps starts roaming around trough gates.
Because, like, anchored bubbles can't be shot at.....right?...

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Ginger Barbarella
#3855 - 2014-10-02 18:28:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Of course 'they' do. Do you play games with the intention of letting your opposition score points?


Any game more complex than pong does EXACTLY that (the word "sacrifice" should help you work on that concept), so I think you may want to repose your retort.

I'll wait.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
flakeys
Doomheim
#3856 - 2014-10-02 18:28:55 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Just a few more pages and this will be a bigger threadnaught than the nano-nerf.


Once it hits page 209, then it will also have bypassed the removal of ghost training 208 page threadnaught.

Come to think of it, a lot of people unsubbed over that as well. But CCP didn't back down from it.



And yet both got pushed through ... Lol

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#3857 - 2014-10-02 18:28:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Querns wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Alliances love tech moons, right?

Man your playbook is dated

Thanks for your input. Next time if you could suggest alternate options that would stimulate conflict more efficiently that would be swell.


This is what happened last time CCP tried to 'stimulate conflict' (using the same "nerf things till people fight" thinking as displayed with the current changes).

*nods* Some of those things worked to some extent, some didn't. This round is a bigger stick and smaller carrot. We'll see how it shakes out in it's intended consequences. Personally, I don't think they're taking things far enough, but I'll admit I'm also not a cap pilot.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#3858 - 2014-10-02 18:29:04 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Master Dumi wrote:
YOU are Killing EvE again.


Looks like the best reason to QUIT now :

1. Life will get impossible in deep 0.0 and Capitals will become giant old ships that nobody want them.
2. Without any benefits from Capitals players will stop learning and building them and loosing goals = loosing players
3. Sure you hate 0.0 because of the stress on your servers due to 3000 pilot fights but that is the reason ppl join EVE, that is the reason EVE is so great.
4. This will not balance the 0.0 - it will take out the pleasure of 0.0 ppl to play EvE and a lot of them will QUIT.

My advice :
You have the CSM, use those ppl to come up with ideas to improve EvE.
Stop letting employes that did not play the game for a long time to change this game.
EvE is a great great game - stop changing the game.


Can I have your stuff?
If anyone quits over this don't give your stuff away TRASH the lot so that it is out of the economy and not benefiting someone else to put back into the system
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#3859 - 2014-10-02 18:29:13 UTC
Molotove Cocktease wrote:
tl;dr These changes are heavy handed and good, which is good. Push out changes (while reexamining med clone change) and alter from there.

Don't let the haters kill the game.


Yep. There are undoubtable a ton of things that will need to be changed both in these mechanics and in other null mechanics, but the changes are still good and there is no point trying to guess every impact they will have.
Vhaine Vhindiscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3860 - 2014-10-02 18:29:26 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Every single proposed change here is about making eve slower and more boring. The predicate for doing so is that more boring will create more fights. I don't believe it.

You mean "more strategic", something which has been lacking a bit of late.


Strategically boring is still boring.