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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3141 - 2014-10-02 12:06:54 UTC
Panther X wrote:
Selexid wrote:
Panther X wrote:
For the love of Amarr, just refund my money on my capitals, delete them from the game, and we can go back to jumping to 15.

Cruisers Online. Thanks a fuckton CCP. I have like an hour maximum a day to play the game, and now I have to spend it in both TiDi AND Jump Fatigue?



So the only gameplay you had was to drop a random carrier in 20 SC 5 regions away. You total fukwad. GTFO you will not be missed.


Oh no, it wasn't a random carrier, it's usually a clueless miner carebear like yerself. Twisted

Obviously you've never flown a capital. Or been in a fleet battle. Or flown anything larger than a skiff.

Just kidding. No wait, I'm not.




Here's a radical concept; set your neighbours red, now you get to shoot them every time you undock. Problem solved.
Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3142 - 2014-10-02 12:07:20 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
That's the sad part - you know you're killing the game with it, you know you're forcing these chances upon New Eden because you're too lazy to change something about it. Don't blame CCP for it, seriously. They gave us all the tools to shape nullsec and well, look at how dull it became.

And you're wrong, the mechanics determine how the players behave, it's not the other way around.


The mechanics are the framework for the gameplay in a sandbox. Nobody forced 30-40k players to join a coalition, nobody forces you to drop hundreds of pilots on top of everything. It's your choice. Every pilot, every leader. You wanted the blob, you enforced it. You're using the mechanics for your own means, see TiDi. You drove the game to be in the most stable condition, near coma. No war can be fought without interference and drops, no small entity is able to take a foothold in nullsec without whoring themselves out to the bigger coalitions.

This is the work of PL, N3 and CFC. Rule with SCs, rent out, make money, improve your position of power. A stalemate of SC force and the brink of server workload ensure that, you blame CCP for not being able to host these fights but we could also just adapt and do smaller fights. Nobody enjoyed B-R for the looks or performance but because of the ISK involved.

I'm not defending the current sov mechanics, they need to be redone - but the force concentration and projection have been exploited by the big coalitions. Now it's CCP move to unfuck these mechanics that you're exploiting right now and kill the fun for more casual gamers.

Don't blame CCP, this could have been avoided but we've been forcing their hands to change something major because we're not able to change it by ourselves.

So yay for the changes, needs some tweaking (region-related resources, moons, npc systems in all regions) but in general, dooo eeeeet.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3143 - 2014-10-02 12:08:22 UTC
Gossi91 wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Gossi91 wrote:
ziktreyon wrote:
Dear CCP,

I like you guys a lot, Im hoping 155 pages of responses is showing you that maybe this is ill concieved.


After that i stoped reading, cause you dont read too.
Look at this thread, ther isnt just QQing or flaming/hating and "I will unsub", no there are ideas how to do it better or positiv feedback too.
And it doesnt matter WHAT CCP change in 0.0, because EVERY change in 0.0 will make the perople in 0.0 cry


No it don't just don't take away the jet and give us a horse carriage again. No one here is crying they are trying to stop CCP from an utter disaster.


Well, post with nothing in it but
"I unsubbed my 20 accounts, gg CCP and **** you"
Arent helpful and thats what i call crying.
Start to discuss and dont just let there be a shitstorm for ccp



There is nothing to discuss they are going to do this regardless. The only way we can truly show our displeasure is to unsub from the game and pack up. They want an easy solution, don't gimp the rorquals and JF. If you think the rorquals can be exploited as combat ships, then leave it to the sole providence of the JF, hell ill even buy one. What is not acceptable is going back to a horsedrawn carriage to take my goods after I flew them out in a jet. No way in hell man. I have a wife and three kids that I like to hang out with and being able to mine, transport goods and back already takes me 2-3 days of careful jumping and planning. I am not having my range limited to 5y which is ridiculous.
Krefken Howiere
Mass Production
#3144 - 2014-10-02 12:08:32 UTC
Simple fix for the pod jumping / death cloning issue...

- Allow people to set their clones to the HQ station of their corporation;
- Allow corporations to set player controlled stations as their HQ;
- Restrict corporations to only be able to change their HQ every 30-90 days.

You're welcome. Blink
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#3145 - 2014-10-02 12:10:07 UTC
CopyCatz wrote:
True Sight wrote:
There's also one more factor CCP seem to forget about sometimes... this new mechanic isn't fun whilst games need to be balanced, they do also need to actually offer fun and reward.

People (including myself, someone living in empire at the moment and not using jump ships) generally feel they've accomplished something when they obtain their first capital, they are fun ships, when I first got my carrierI d**ked about jumping all over the place, friend wanted me to join him 5 jumps away? SURE! let me put my exhumer in my carrier and jump to you!

People who are use to the above are not going to find arbitrary cooldowns fun. there has to be another way to limit projection in an effective way without making people feel like they don't even want fly a capital ship anymore.


Agreed. The fun factor is being removed out of Eve more and more. And I don't mean the fun factor for bittervets (which is griefing, something they can even do in this thread), but more the coolness factor of flying your first BS, Cap, discovering a part of space, whatever. All CCP seems to be occupied with is making a few new skins for ships and then refocus on trying to stir up the bittervets in 0.0. Eve was praised for its sandbox nature where CCP did not intervene, but these proposed mechanics just show that the game has come to a stage where it can either turn into something new or fade away into oblivion. Putting in artificial timers that do not seem natural or lead to any more fun makes me thinks we're not on the road to a new Eve..


Battlestar Galactia - FTL drives. Time to spool them up. Recalibration time after. Stresses on the ship. Stresses on the crew.

And this one:

They were not always reliable. Enter that in the game, oh no, you just jumped to the wrong system.
Sigras
Conglomo
#3146 - 2014-10-02 12:12:15 UTC
Xela Kcaneoh wrote:
Ren Kavik wrote:
Its simple they dont want 1 group to control half of nullsec.
So cry all you want this is gonna happen.

Why should we care what they want? When did this become "CCP changes everything they don't like"? If I had read that dev blog, maybe I would've seen this coming...

ok, then try this on for size.

Its not good for the game to have 2 entities controlling all of null sec. It is stifling for the game, and a difficult cycle to get out of because the current owners are the ones with all the money and the power.

We have a system much like the late 1920s in the USA. 10% of the people own 100% of the land and they oppress the other 90%. Nobody can rise up because they get black listed, and if you're not in the good ol boys club you have no shot.

That required government intervention (anti trust laws) to come in and get us out of that system because it was destroying the country.

This is similar and requires CCP to come in and get us out of that system because it is DESTROYING the game.
Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3147 - 2014-10-02 12:12:37 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Tyby wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Neesa Corrinne wrote:
But you assume too much.

If you actually read the 155 pages, you'd see that a large chunk of us are defending these changes and praying they actually make it into effect.

Those of us who have been getting hot dropped by 12 carriers in 10 man cruiser fleets have been told to HTFU for years, and now when they take those casual hot drops away, we're not allowed to say HTFU? Incredible. Simply mind boggling.

Also, the "This effects the smaller guys more than us" argument is effing hilarious. There's no way anyone in the CFC would take the time to drop by the forums and fight for the little guy. Really. I believe you. Like seriously, thanks for looking out for us for the past five years, how nice of you to suddenly show up and support us now that you've spent half a decade raking in trillions of renter ISK from us.


*sigh*...

The announce changes won't stop that. If you were genuinely hot-dropped by 12 carriers, simply so they could kill a dozen cruisers, they were local carriers, they will still happily do that after this change, if you think some alliance in Vale jumped 7 jumps to kill your cruiser gang in Delve, you are very very mistaken.

even more, from now on they will drop those 12 carriers more freely knowing there is no way anyone can counter drop them in a not so short window of time because of the range nerf and and fatigue that will slow down any hostile cap group
the only thing that will change is that they will need to wait a bit longer till the cruiser gang get in jump range of the carriers

You can still get dropped, it will just take more preparation and skill to do so than it currently does.


yes ofc you can still get dropped, but except traps, the 12 man carrier gang dropping on cruisers just gained some extra time to gtfo if something went south. or even better than gtfo, they got some extra time to call and bring reinforcements
no matter how you look at this, the 12 man carrier gang just got a little safer
Melissa Redoran
#3148 - 2014-10-02 12:15:12 UTC
thinking about all this for some hours now.


as a pure Trader / haulker id like to say:

GREAT CHANGES CCP!!!!!!
Keep it up and do NOT change course @ Rorqual / JF
Never ever!

Best idea for a long time
Haul Ing
Veldspar Crusade
#3149 - 2014-10-02 12:16:39 UTC
The jump drive changes are intended to nerf nullsec groups, and it is successful in that regard, but it will even more heavily damage lowsec communities such as the already small lowsec incursioning community. Right now, carriers are the only form of transport we have to go between incursions in any reasonable amount of time. Not having such a severe cap on how far we can go means that it is more accessible for newer players to join as capital pilots can move others' ships. After the changes, T3s will really be the only smart ships to use in incursions. This will severely reduce our limited numbers, so and there will rarely be anyone running lowsec incursions anymore (again).

This is already when the profitability of running lowsec incursions is alreadya lot less than that of highsec incursions (and they have almost zero risk!) It does not make sense for anyone to put in so much effort after the changes to keep it running.

The jump drive changes should be put off until after the other changes, as these affect a lot more people than the intended target of the fix, so that there can be more time to iterate on it and adjust it based on the effects of Phases 2 and 3 of the nullsec shakeup.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3150 - 2014-10-02 12:17:37 UTC
Have they said anything about blops getting the same bonus as jf and rorquals
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#3151 - 2014-10-02 12:17:38 UTC
ugly inside wrote:

if you want to make this game die.. a dev blog like this only ruins the fun for null sec.. take away the high sec kids toys too... come null sec alliances.. come show high sec how fun it is to destroy stuff en mass and show CCP that you dont need dreads/titans/carriers/JF's to destroy the stuff people worked on saving up for.

dont forget.. after you ruined everything they own and have nothing yourself left to lose to unsub so CCP is the final victim in this game.



You know what's funny about your melodramatic sperging....

If you could get 0.0 to do this and kill off the lots dead pos' in empire many, even in empire, would say please do.

Also funny is its the only the cap pilots whining. Seems like the sub cap pilots are actually happy. Have a spot of fun scouts can be almost sure no cap fleets in a 5 lyr range and maybe they can have some fun again (vice going when, not if, will some cyno light up and hot drop ruins the fun).


What is also funny is the cap pilots your are trying to unite unless really bad have not paid for this game in years. If they unsubbed....oh dear, 2 more plexes (main and cyno alt) on the market.
Charlotte Ginger
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3152 - 2014-10-02 12:17:46 UTC
Anyone who thinks this will help the little corps is deluded.

-It makes deep 0.0 ratting is even safer. So the big blobs are likely to get larger and larger....

-Jump Freighters have been rendered pointless. So Freight will be moved by normal Freighters via gates (and the occasional JB)
This will require big blobbed space with lots of Blues.


Small corps trying to get to their 0.0 pocket will give-up due to the pain of getting supplies. (and will prolly be crushes by the sub-cap big blue blob - that love the secure ratting so much)


-T2 ship prices will fly up, causing meaning the only people able to afford them will be the people ratting in deep blue space. BUT they wont be able to get them to 0.0, so they will just fly T1 Cruiser/BC (like everyone who cant afford them)


The people who are warning about these changes are the people who have been playing a long time. Last Friday was my 10th Anniversary, I've seen alot.

This is break 0.0 not fix it.
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3153 - 2014-10-02 12:17:47 UTC
how things look if they had a different approach to this....

your car.. ooh.. you just drove 5KM.. you gotta wait.. your car is tired..

NEW TAMAGUCHI.. the nidhogger.. your pet just jumped.. its tired and wants to take a nap now..

SIMS 4: EVE ONLINE ~ your character is fat, lazy, stupid and doesnt like to jump.. so your job is to sit around and wait for something to happen!

EVE ONLINE the facebook game: if you get 100000 friends to join this game we will give you 1 jump for free!!

eve online the pyramid scheme: get 100 friends to join the game.. we will give you a cool drink cuzi to hold your beer while you get drunk and wait for the next jump

eve online the social life game: what you doing man? nm.. just jumped.. u know.... waiting..... did u go afk again..? jumping is so boring.... i think im gonna go station spin.. bet i can get that counter to 400000000000000000 before the cool down resets

EVE ONLINE: Because CCP goes to bars while they "work" so why shouldnt you go to bars.. while you subscribe to their game.. and wait for your jump timer... seriously.. go to a bar your fatigue gauge says you cant jump again for 4 months and 13 days..
Warhead Tamarkus
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#3154 - 2014-10-02 12:18:01 UTC
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
KanmanDS wrote:
While these changes MAY be necessary to get the capital ship situation under control, these jump fatigue mechanics should NOT apply to sub-capitals ships. Sub capital ships using their Alliance jump bridges or black ops fleets sneaking around to cause shinanigans is NOT a problem in this game. No one's empire is collapsing to ashes due to unrelenting black ops fleets, and no one wants to hold a Sunday Night Black Ops fleet with 45 minute interludes between drops.

What if you try to launch a fleet for PVP roam and some of your guys have used the jump bridge recently. If your route intended to go through the bridge, go roam, then return home through the bridge, your fleet members may have a wide range of very different jump delay timers when it is time to return.

Forcing the 'everyman' in to more dangerous or time-consuming situations to accomplish 'everday activities' within the game will only frustrate young/new players, deminishing new-player retention.

MAYBE this mechanic makes sense for capitals. Maybe just super-capitals. But definitely DO NOT do this to pilots in sub-capital ships.

It shouldn't apply to jump bridges or haulers or MOST sub caps. It should apply to Black OPs because hot dropping is WAY out of control. I cant even begin to tell you how many ratting ships I've lost to 1 ship dropping 40 bombers on my head. Its dumb old and ridiculous, especially when said cyno ship can sit in your system cloaked for weeks at a time.



you are literally stupid than. watch local, warp to pos/station when nuet appears. it isnt that challenging.

i dont know how many ratters have escaped my scram and cyno by simply....warping to safety. makes my heart hurt to watch them go
Sigras
Conglomo
#3155 - 2014-10-02 12:18:07 UTC
Ive said it before and ill say it again:

Any mechanic that caters to a more casual player will be completely exploited by anyone who isnt a casual player which would break the game for everyone.

I see a bunch of whining in this thread but no alternatives being proposed. If you dont like this change, im sorry but nobody cares about you, but if you have a better idea on what to do, im sure people would be willing to listen.
Ren Kavik
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3156 - 2014-10-02 12:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ren Kavik
CopyCatz wrote:
True Sight wrote:
There's also one more factor CCP seem to forget about sometimes... this new mechanic isn't fun whilst games need to be balanced, they do also need to actually offer fun and reward.

People (including myself, someone living in empire at the moment and not using jump ships) generally feel they've accomplished something when they obtain their first capital, they are fun ships, when I first got my carrierI d**ked about jumping all over the place, friend wanted me to join him 5 jumps away? SURE! let me put my exhumer in my carrier and jump to you!

People who are use to the above are not going to find arbitrary cooldowns fun. there has to be another way to limit projection in an effective way without making people feel like they don't even want fly a capital ship anymore.


Agreed. The fun factor is being removed out of Eve more and more. And I don't mean the fun factor for bittervets (which is griefing, something they can even do in this thread), but more the coolness factor of flying your first BS, Cap, discovering a part of space, whatever. All CCP seems to be occupied with is making a few new skins for ships and then refocus on trying to stir up the bittervets in 0.0. Eve was praised for its sandbox nature where CCP did not intervene, but these proposed mechanics just show that the game has come to a stage where it can either turn into something new or fade away into oblivion. Putting in artificial timers that do not seem natural or lead to any more fun makes me thinks we're not on the road to a new Eve..


As i was reading your text i was drawing the opposite conclusion.

Maybe take this change a step further.
Dont allow caps to jump between regions unless they either use stargates or jump bridges.
Thats should make it a lot more granular :)
Also this would create some ahwsome bottlenecks for new pirate corps to take hold.

And not to nerf titans to hard make their jumpbridges go 2x as far as normal jumping(10junmps).
That with new jump delay timers would work great i think.
Titans would be great for regional control and above.
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#3157 - 2014-10-02 12:19:44 UTC
I like your post except for this one point:

Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
npc systems in all regions


Having NPC systems in all regions would make things worst than they are now, as it would mean that the entrenched coalitions would have bases where they could never be forced out of. Sure, other players could base out of it, as well, but when you have the critical mass that the existing coalitions do, you're not going to have much of a chance when they're in the same station / system as you.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3158 - 2014-10-02 12:19:53 UTC
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:
That's the sad part - you know you're killing the game with it, you know you're forcing these chances upon New Eden because you're too lazy to change something about it. Don't blame CCP for it, seriously. They gave us all the tools to shape nullsec and well, look at how dull it became.

And you're wrong, the mechanics determine how the players behave, it's not the other way around.


The mechanics are the framework for the gameplay in a sandbox. Nobody forced 30-40k players to join a coalition, nobody forces you to drop hundreds of pilots on top of everything. It's your choice. Every pilot, every leader. You wanted the blob, you enforced it. You're using the mechanics for your own means, see TiDi. You drove the game to be in the most stable condition, near coma. No war can be fought without interference and drops, no small entity is able to take a foothold in nullsec without whoring themselves out to the bigger coalitions.

This is the work of PL, N3 and CFC. Rule with SCs, rent out, make money, improve your position of power. A stalemate of SC force and the brink of server workload ensure that, you blame CCP for not being able to host these fights but we could also just adapt and do smaller fights. Nobody enjoyed B-R for the looks or performance but because of the ISK involved.

I'm not defending the current sov mechanics, they need to be redone - but the force concentration and projection have been exploited by the big coalitions. Now it's CCP move to unfuck these mechanics that you're exploiting right now and kill the fun for more casual gamers.

Don't blame CCP, this could have been avoided but we've been forcing their hands to change something major because we're not able to change it by ourselves.

So yay for the changes, needs some tweaking (region-related resources, moons, npc systems in all regions) but in general, dooo eeeeet.

You say "don't blame CCP", but the oneous is not on players to do what's "in the game's best interest", but on the game developers to create and maintain mechanics which force players to do what's actually in the game's best interest.

Thinking anything else is being hilariously delusional, or at best, severely biased and incorrect in where you point blame.
Charlotte Ginger
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3159 - 2014-10-02 12:20:06 UTC
Charlotte Ginger wrote:
Anyone who thinks this will help the little corps is deluded.

-It makes deep 0.0 ratting is even safer. So the big blobs are likely to get larger and larger....

-Jump Freighters have been rendered pointless. So Freight will be moved by normal Freighters via gates (and the occasional JB)
This will require big blobbed space with lots of Blues.


Small corps trying to get to their 0.0 pocket will give-up due to the pain of getting supplies. (and will prolly be crushes by the sub-cap big blue blob - that love the secure ratting so much)


-T2 ship prices will fly up, causing meaning the only people able to afford them will be the people ratting in deep blue space. BUT they wont be able to get them to 0.0, so they will just fly T1 Cruiser/BC (like everyone who cant afford them)


The people who are warning about these changes are the people who have been playing a long time. Last Friday was my 10th Anniversary, I've seen alot.

This is break 0.0 not fix it.



If they leave Jump Freighters alone.... Then this might stand a chance.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3160 - 2014-10-02 12:21:00 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
Just wanna say this...

Who the **** pays for EvE with RL money?!?!

Plex bro's jeeze..

Love the people saying "Ill take my 6 accounts and leave"







You do understand that...well obviously not, so incoming basic 101 stuff...that if everyone isk'd their plex there would be no plex?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.