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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2941 - 2014-10-02 09:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Selexid
Prince Kobol wrote:
Selexid wrote:


Well if someone is attacking a cap defended system with caps of their own, they might have subcap support and even scouts on the other side....... Gezuz man.


Tell you what.. after this change go and attack Deklein and tell me how it s goes :)


See this is the point, if coalitions stay the same you wont need to attack decklein, but fountain and branch and catch and w/e in smaller group. I mean one huge blob can be only in one system @ the time.

So if the big guys want to stay big (which they can), they will need to work a bit harder for it that is all; and plan some things not insta porting in Curse, because some director has a friend with a tower there.
Ferrocerium Spark
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2942 - 2014-10-02 09:53:28 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ferrocerium Spark wrote:
Someone probably mentioned this before...

CCP please don't make new jump drive changes nightmare for logistic/industiral operations. EvE is already feels like second job so please don't make it more time consuming when it comes to using jump freighters and rorquals.

because Eve didnt exist before jump freighters and rorquals right?

talk about entitlement issues...


Well, I don't know how it used to be before (playing since 2013).. and I don't want to go back but to move forward (or at least keep something as it is now).
are34
daddys little fslur
boo hoo fslur i don't care
#2943 - 2014-10-02 09:53:44 UTC
will capital ships be able to go through any acceleration gates after the proposed changes?

will any acceleration gates be changed to allow any class of capitals?
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2944 - 2014-10-02 09:53:44 UTC
Plukovnik wrote:
Needmore Longcat wrote:
Is today April 1? Capitals taking gates? Jump fatigue? These are some of the worst ideas.

How is a stagnant nullsec going to be fixed by making things take even longer than they do already? How does that make any sense at all?

Absolutely terrible.


This is proof that CCP should do absolutely opposite things than those that sov holders want. Things MUST take longer, because game mechanics must dicourage making coalition with someone who is based over three regions far. Current state of stagnation is because people from Outer Passage can easily reach Catch in less than one hour. Therefore it makes sense to have diplomatic relationships with them. New mechanic will make no sense to that, because no matter how long would take the battle in Catch, people from Outer Passage would arrive hours, maybe days after it ends.

I believe this will finally break the current state of stagnation. Coalition will fall apart, because reason of their existence will ceise. Well prepared attack will cause havoc and will require well prepared defence, not just jabber ping and voilá - hundreds of caps and supers arrive from regions 50 LY away. Today, there is no such thing like "surprise attack" because batphoning tens of alliances and their arrival requires almost no effort.

After this change, lets say that INK, PL, NC and N3 will come to help HERO in Catch, when Providence and AAA attacks them. This situation will be used by TRI+BL to attack Cache. Coalition members will have to decide - help HERO and risk losing systems in Cache, or go home to save their own lands and abandon HERO. In any case, dedicated attack will require dedicated defense, planning and even sacrifices. The german emperor Frederick the Great said "who wants to defend everything, defends nothing" and EVE should go back to state where this works. Now it doesnt, because hundreds of capitals can move across the universe in matter of minutes and that is simply wrong.


Wrong. they will scoot their empires up closer to low sec and effectively stop anyone from getting into null. The idea of moving rorquals and JF through low sec gates is ridiculous. You know how many people will get popped from all the people that make a living hitting ships that come to their gate. Can you say stupid ?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2945 - 2014-10-02 09:54:05 UTC
EarthQuake51a wrote:
What about giving capitals some warpcore bonus?
As far as I know, a capital ship warp core should be harder to disrupt than a battleship one.

It doesn't mean safe warping capitals in lowsec, but at least not getting pinned by stupid rats at a gate in which take a while to lock. (armor caps will have a significant advantage for that, reinforcing the fact that armor stuff is generally better than shield)


I agree, warp core strength should be proportional to ship size/mass/something. Then we can remove EWAR and scram immunity from super caps and leave them with 1000+ warp core stability. And of course we could have difference size scrams & disruptors with various tradeoffs of scram strength, range, fitting requirements, etc. Give Interceptors, Arazu and interdictors the benefit of fitting one-size-up tackle modules.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#2946 - 2014-10-02 09:55:32 UTC
Stoffl wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
I hope all these people unsubbing bring the PLEX prices down a bit. xD



You would think so..but with less people buying plex, it may cause those selling them to drive the cost up to offset the loss in sales. Idk, could go either way.. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me, I pay a sub and plex is useless to me.

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
KanashiiKami
#2947 - 2014-10-02 09:55:42 UTC
Michus Danether wrote:
I love this thread, it is full of so many emotions :D!

A few thoughts, somewhat in order:

1. A purely linear jump fatigue cooldown of 1 per minute seems to be making a lot of people uneasy. Even if in practice people won't be trying to give themselves a massive timer it's still very, very likely to happen among the thousands of EVE players, and then there are the people who will do it on purpose. Either way cap pilots might end up with month long jump fatigue timers.

Why not just change the formula from reducing 1 fatigue/minute to reducing ([[0.1% of totalFatigue] + 1 fatigue]/minute) instead? Just tweak the percentage from 1% to 0.1% as needed to get the jump delay you want for your golden timer of 40 LYs made by jump instead of by gate.

2. This is going to make general logistics a pain in the friggin ass, thanks! :( I will HTFU of course but forgetting the awesome fact that massive capital blobfests will be evaporating with these changes (good thing) it does really nerf the little guy's ability to lug around assets. A Rorq or carrier full of small corp assets will take a very long time to transport stuff. So an already somewhat complex operation is going to get more tedious and complex. I am not saying it's necessarily that bad... but in order to compensate (and since we are making wild changes and slippery changes here!) I might suggest a few other tweaks:

2a. Make more wormholes that can fit 1-3 capitals worth of mass through them, but have these wormholes dedicated to linking up between null-null, null-lowsec and lowsec-lowsec. This will give the little corps a solid advantage in that they can locate these awesome wormholes and move to new areas, get 1 freighter worth of assets through from lowsec(empire) to wherever they live in nullsec... and so on. Large alliances can't use these wormholes for their massive cap ganks since the wormholes collapse after 3~ caps worth of mass. Yay! Solving design goals left and right here!

2b. Increase the ship hanger size for carriers (and maybe super carriers) and perhaps reconfigure a few other design elements here to encourage situations where a single carrier or supercarrier can jump in, and somehow (either by jumpclones to the C/SC, or riding the jump-field-wake or whatever) pod pilots can drag their ships out of the carrier and start fighting. If some part of that process prevents the dozens of subcap pilots from accruing jump fatigue, or has some other similar benefit it might encourage people to do what your design goals want them to do and start spreading out their cap ships to have response-ready fleets in the event of an incursion.

3. Intel is going to get super messy... and this whole jump fatigue system is going to make the aggressor of a territory-claiming war accrue a LOT!!!! of jump fatigue. Can you imagine the nightmare it will be for a large sprawling alliance to try to position their cap fleet within 1 or 2 jump range of an invading fleet? They have to know for certain where that enemy fleet will be attacking. The whole concept of war and territory taking is probably going to grind to a halt until the future SOV changes hinted at in the dev blog.

Going back to 2b... it would be really neat CCP if you could get it working so pod pilots can 'ride along' inside jump-clone capable capital ships, and if they could do so then maybe they don't accrue jump fatigue? That would allow a subcap fleet to move around fairly quickly and repeatedly but in the process risk the actual physical presence of a capital ship to do it... no more titans hiding inside bubbles back in starbase, now the supercarrier would have to land on grid to disgorge its pilot friends Pirate

---

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually largely in favour of these changes. It will definitely and dramatically change the game in a way that I haven't seen since titans first showed up. Change is good just for change sake sometimes, but this has a specific goal and a plan for changing the very nature of warfare in EVE. I actually adore this change, as anything that breaks the massive blobs down into smaller chunks is good for the game and the server hamsters who can run a little slower.

I wonder, if making rapid-reinforcements and the threat of titan-bridge hotdrops less likely... will people be more inclined to turn around and engage a pursuing force? I have been in lots of fleets where it is said "If we fight they will just drop on us."... removing that option might make those fleets turn around and slam into each other, which is what everybody wants anyway.

Either way... interesting times coming up in November!


it will also mean, the swarms will start stacking up cap ships along all the corridor of entries to possible aggression zones. it will also mean, alot more of carriers will be bought off hand to be stocked along them borders. esp NPC stations filled overflowing with carriers.

WUT ???
Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#2948 - 2014-10-02 09:56:18 UTC
rezell wrote:
This will help low sec . No more uber MOM fleets


This Devblog pretty much clearly states those Uber MOM fleets will be jumping into your lowsec.

Enjoy.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2949 - 2014-10-02 09:56:54 UTC
Karash Amerius wrote:
I think people fail to realize that less mobile fleets mean that fleets are easier to pin down by superior planning and intel. Blueballs are going to suck under the new system, this I agree, but being able to corner a fleet more effectively when all the chess pieces are in place will be more rewarding to those involved.

Looking forward to seeing how things pan out. I personally don't like capitals online, and a bitter vet of the days with battleship fleets actually mattered in Null.



Not at all! The blue ball fleet will NOT be smaller. They will just wait and get later, but with the same massive superiority that will CRUSH the smaller groups EQUALY!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2950 - 2014-10-02 09:56:58 UTC
are34 wrote:
will capital ships be able to go through any acceleration gates after the proposed changes?

will any acceleration gates be changed to allow any class of capitals?


If yes you could recover That JF loss in no time :DDD
Tyby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2951 - 2014-10-02 09:58:18 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ferrocerium Spark wrote:
Someone probably mentioned this before...

CCP please don't make new jump drive changes nightmare for logistic/industiral operations. EvE is already feels like second job so please don't make it more time consuming when it comes to using jump freighters and rorquals.

because Eve didnt exist before jump freighters and rorquals right?

talk about entitlement issues...


before posting ******** comments and try to look smart, allow me to point out a small thing:before rorq and jfs existence most of the logistic was done by carriers and dreads;
a dread/carrier was able to move up to about 100k m3, so yea, there is your logistic ships before jfs; but guess what? they where nerffed severall times so ppl start using the jfs on a large scale...
but yea, don't let the facts stop you, keep telling us about those "funny freighter ops" that you never took part on.
are34
daddys little fslur
boo hoo fslur i don't care
#2952 - 2014-10-02 09:58:36 UTC
btw these changes are going to be amazing CCP this is really going to make the game more challenging for alot of capital heavy power houses and I myself am extremely excited about this.

havn't been able to sleep since i read the post.

seriously +1, the only people that don't like the changes are for the most part the more lazy of eve pilots. That said perhaps putting a flat rate on the fatigue would be an easier option, specificly surrounding the 5 minute triage and seige cycle timers, I would be happy with a set amount of minutes on fatigue, specificly with 5 minutes being the cap.
Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2953 - 2014-10-02 09:59:29 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:


Wrong. they will scoot their empires up closer to low sec and effectively stop anyone from getting into null. The idea of moving rorquals and JF through low sec gates is ridiculous. You know how many people will get popped from all the people that make a living hitting ships that come to their gate. Can you say stupid ?


Wrong: Hire or have an escort! Long live Escort Mercenaries!
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2954 - 2014-10-02 10:00:13 UTC
We had full fleets duke it out back in 2006. We used to fly our Battleships from Fountain to Omist several times a day. None of that jump bridge crap. Some of these current power block pilots have no idea what they're talking about. People used to fly haulers down pipes all the time.

Sounds more like you're that guy from Wall-E. You've gotten so used to your hoverchair and sidewheels, you forgot how to walk. Or in EVE terms, you've gotten so used to just jumping all the way across the map in no time you forgot how to actually just, you know, fly there.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#2955 - 2014-10-02 10:01:38 UTC
it would be so simple to just reduce or limit the number of ships/mass a cyno can allow so reduce the ability of blob + jump timer
But would be more efficient to just limit the number of ships by cyno and the number of cyno by systems...

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2956 - 2014-10-02 10:02:52 UTC
My quick 2 cents as a Sov resident and cap pilot:

Love it.

All of it.

May the subcaps reign.

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2957 - 2014-10-02 10:04:09 UTC
DaiTengu wrote:
Man this thread is full of people who never took 80 gate jumps in a battleship only to be DD'd by a titan when they arrived at their destination.



You do not need 80 jumps between ANY 2 systems in eve. Great useless hyperbole.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#2958 - 2014-10-02 10:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
1. Interesting changes - radical changes are good, but be prepared to quickly be radical again if they settle and turn out to have been poor for the game.

2. Can you please include some notes on Titan bridges/portals specifically in the blog or 1st post - Will Titan pilots get exhaustion bridging or is it just for those bridged? And will a frigate pilot bridged 5 LY get the same exhaustion as a freighter pilot? Titan bridges are killing lowsec PVP for anything other than frigates so I like this change (I think) if it stops the over abuse of the 'bridge everything, we're bored!' mantra.

3. I see a lot of opportunity with these changes personally - 'Newbies' can still easily get out to Null sec with Interceptors they just need to buy their stuff out there once again, not in Jita before having it shipped. It gives a boost to true local production (not just shipping in minerals) and marketeers. A return of industrial alliances to Null is a good thing IMHO.

4. Lowsec cyno-jammers should be made system wide or grid wide at least. **As presumably you will get no exhaustion cynoing within the same system - lowsec will have more cap fleets cynoing within system much more regularly as part of a camp or w/e. Lowsec power projection will actually increase for the current '1 system overlords' as they warp caps to gate, jump and then cyno within the system to the fight.


** Edit: added a reason why ... Mystic Meg crystal ball opinion here but I'm normally not too far off.
Serafim Red
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
#2959 - 2014-10-02 10:05:07 UTC
if they gonna nerf captials they should buff the small haulersbecause logistics will be a pain.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2960 - 2014-10-02 10:06:23 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
How will this hurt smaller alliances again?!

3 small alliances attack 1 bigger alliance at 3 different points same timers.

Big alliance has to split into 3 groups to defend or 2 and lose the other 1 uncontested.

OR

Big alliance blobs one point and smaller one gets 2 points uncontested.

Now you are gonna think we will just use allys. Well thats is all well and good but they will have to leave their space undefended to help and use caps so subcaps, which takes time.

Logistics isent a problem if the allience is willing to put in the work. Stage from a lowsec and assulting Entry systems for logistical advantage.

Assaulting entity gets easy'r logistics, Defending entity has harder time with his logistics.




No they do NOT. They wilL NOT split, they will come with FULL force at one, CRUSH IT, and the others will not be able to go help them. THen later on other day they will go on FULL force on the second group and CRUSH IT.

THe problem is Not PROJECTION, is projection of a huge POWER CONCENTRATION, that can go from no presence at all (i.e zero risk) to massive utterly disproportionate blob presence (i.e near zero risk) in 1 second.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"