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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1961 - 2014-10-02 00:11:37 UTC
To anyone against this- once again- HTFU
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1962 - 2014-10-02 00:11:40 UTC
Aryth wrote:


Yes we will. There will exist multiple mechanics that will allow you to project subcapitals all over the place quickly. In fact the subcap doctrines are likely to change to specifically allow this to be efficient. Ours already is.


Sure, and although I do not doubt that you think you have this covered, I can already see multiple avenues to forcing a commitment of forces that will lock your pilots into location.

Enjoy spending hours every night in tidi as you zerg your nano fit BS fleets to blueball parties. See how long you can keep that up.
ic35t0rm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1963 - 2014-10-02 00:12:05 UTC
100 pages FTW lol
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1964 - 2014-10-02 00:12:28 UTC
So, when so we start attacking the statue in Jita? It seems to be the only thing that get's CCP's attention.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1965 - 2014-10-02 00:12:34 UTC
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
the turnaround time was kind of fast to be in response to the null deal, but the sheer amount of gameplay that has been unlocked makes me think these changes were to satisfy it.


It was the other way around - these changes leaked, via the null blocks' members on the CSM. The "deal" just is an attempt for them to get around these changes, by having uncapturable npc pockets everywhere they can store caps in.

ooooh ok. I thought it was too simple to be true.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1966 - 2014-10-02 00:12:45 UTC
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Aryth wrote:


I really don't know why anyone thinks this is true. These changes will not bring that reality to pass. You are correct others coming might. There are mitigation methods to these. Many are already posted. Good luck mitigating mass farmed alts CCP.

I suspect that is their real intentions. Collection of more PLEX.


Sure, make CCP look greedy while you try and preserve your renter income.

Hypocrisy much?


Again, this doesn't impact our income. Quality of life oh sure. Income no.


Just wait, it will.

In spite of your bluster, you will not be able to have 1000 man mega fleets on both sides of your territory unless you dramatically decrease your territory.

we only need 1000 man fleets when the rest of the galaxy has shown up
they no longer can
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1967 - 2014-10-02 00:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
This is going to be a very significant change, but it's going to make things fun- you'll see battleships and cap roams , with more fun and more fights- I can't wait for this Big smile
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1968 - 2014-10-02 00:13:18 UTC
sennett wrote:
i seriously cannot understand this logic.
stop capitals from moving around. a.k.a let the blobs become the dominant force again, take away the one of the tools that alliances used to fight outnumbered?
It goes back to a game of who can beat the 1000 domnis again, this time with no caps. or caps after weeks.
probably not change much. CFC gains space as they field most numbers, other people lose space. smaller alliances still dont get sov as they cannot out blob the larger alliances that already live there.


Mostly accurate. Though I don't think we will gain space as we already hold half the galaxy and that is plenty. We just aren't going to be fighting off some barbarian horde either. Those who think that clearly don't know null.

A lot more would have to change to bring that to pass. I allow for the possibility though that it's coming.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#1969 - 2014-10-02 00:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
I've gone ahead and let these proposed changes sink in for awhile. I didn't want to make the big Oh man CCP you done goofed we're all quitting post, because truth be told, it's already been done a million times in this thread and played out to death.

In my honest opinion, these changes are particularly ground shattering to some, and a breath of fresh air to others. I can respect that. Even as a part of everyone's 'Big Blue Donut', we all agreed that power projection was far too strong, and needed to be brought back down a little. However, I do wholeheartedly believe that most of these changes are a step far, far into the wrong direction. I'm going to use quotes from your Devblog, because it will be easier to follow. I won't be quoting anyone in this thread, and likely not partaking in it any further. I just wish to speak my mind, make some counter points, and move to the back, to see if you do truly value your customers input. So, here goes.

We are going to allow capital ships to use gates in lowsec/nullsec

This is something that's been presented time and time again, and honestly, I'm almost surprised it's taken this long to come about. Am I fan of this? Not personally. Would I ever use this? Likely not, unless I'm out of fuel, or going an extremely long distance with a near bloc level or higher fleet in tow. However, a change like this does lead to potential content generation, and the idea of a non-ironic gate jumping bait Carrier does make me smile ear to ear. I'm interested to see where people may take this in the future.

and we are aiming to make gate-to-gate travel take less time than jump travel over distances of more than ~20 LY. We've run simulations for capital ships travelling between arbitrary pairs of systems, and settled on the target movement speed of no less than 3 minutes per lightyear for travel over 20 LY. This should allow us to bring about the main change we want to see – less sustained use of jump travel – while still preserving its value for short bursts of movement.

Again, not a giant fan of this. The Warp Speed changes that recently came about helped and hindered in many ways, but the warp acceleration or a Capital (let alone a Supercapital) is astoundingly slow. Unless you are prepared to somehow give them quicker to warp speed times (not alignment, don't confuse this), I can't see anything doing anything shy of slow travel, waiting for timers.

The primary change is the addition of a new mechanic, called "jump fatigue".


This is where I hit my brakes, and instantly go 'Why?'. If you are going to go ahead and put in a cooldown on Jump Drives themselves, then you have already greatly slowed down force projection. Any bloc that needs to move somewhere in a hurry will always do it over the greatest distance possible that will still provide safe passage. You hit the nail on the head with the Jump Drive cooldown, but the fatigue is equivalent to taking the clawfoot and digging the nail back out again. It's an un-needed mechanic based on the fact that you're going to even further discourage Nullsec even harder. A change like this will amount to people literally needing to take weeks at a time to move in for a deployment from a long distance, and on top of that, it makes them EASIER to camp in somewhere, as all you need to do is camp them in an NPC Midpoint, discourage them from continuing the rest of the trip, and they end up turning back around. You're ENCOURAGING people to not want to deploy by making things into a logistical headache for any force, be it large or small. Small guerrilla warfare is sadly NOT the lifeblood of Null, and this isn't going to help the issue.

In addition, the addition to this to Jump Bridges is just silly. You're basically making it so anything with multiple, large regions will have to wait to defend their space in a hurry? Completely un-needed. I would more-so welcome a change to Jump Bridges requiring a lot more fuel and letting Caps through them sooner than I ever would 'Fatigue'.

Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills; this is both necessary to allow us to not penalize short-distance travel in a cleaner way, and also as a goal in and of itself to constrain the distance covered in single hops. . (Note that jump portal range on a ship is always the same as its own jump drive range.)

This is incredibly overkill. Not only are you making it much longer to travel anywhere, but now you're forcing things to go even slower. Not only is Combat insanely ineffective, Logistics have been utterly crippled. A change like this one needs to be thoroughly checked over before you just put in a flat number and say 'Good enough, let's see how it goes.'. Something along the lines of a 45% Reduction in overall range would go a lot further than 'Everyone goes this far, and that's it'. Titan Bridging has become near worthless, and owning the ships is now arguably now a novelty. I'm not saying 'Reimburse all of us for our Titans / Supers', but I have to question the point in owning them at this point in the longrun.

You will only be able to move your medical clone to the station you are currently docked at.

This will punish newcomers far more than vets, but it's been beaten to death in this thread so I feel no need to comment.

Hitpoints and resistances on various sovereignty-related structures will be revisited, to balance out the reduced ability to use Supercarriers against them.


Long overdue.

We will be releasing a collection of other smaller changes...These include a rebalance of starbase weapons, a rebalance of stealth bombers and heavy interdictors, enabling of lowsec doomsdays, and changes to interdictor bubble mechanics.

Interested to see these.

Cont...

[i]Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread[/i]

Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#1970 - 2014-10-02 00:14:20 UTC
...Cont

Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations

You need to give JFs and Rorqs some more love here. If you're honestly going to cripple Logistical Work to 5LY, then give them something else. Shorter Cooldowns, more Ship Storage, anything. You're almost completely shutting out small pockets of NPC Nul with a change like this, and they have already openly voiced so in this thread.

Black Ops ships will have their range unchanged, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This also keeps the range of their jump portals unchanged. We don’t feel that Black Ops range needs adjustment right now.


Arguable, but I will, again, wait and see.

---


Once again, I have said my peace. Feel free to flame, agree, like, disagree, report this post, call it tears, whatever. I will likely not reply to this thread past this point. However, I will say as a member of my Alliance Skyteam, these changes are quite upsetting in some aspects, and more than welcome in others. I greatly hope that CCP considers all feedback coming here, and in the coming weeks on the Test Server. Hope to see some of these changes dialed back to more reasonable numbers than currently exist.

My views and opinions are that of my own. I am not projecting the thoughts of anyone in the CFC through my posts. Claim what you will, I don't care.

[i]Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread[/i]

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1971 - 2014-10-02 00:15:14 UTC
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
I'm totally stoked for these changes.

The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious.


A real change of pace from the mission text you're used to seeing from SoE missions I suppose.

Never ran a level 4 in my life. Why are you always so mad, bro?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1972 - 2014-10-02 00:15:18 UTC
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Aryth wrote:


Yes we will. There will exist multiple mechanics that will allow you to project subcapitals all over the place quickly. In fact the subcap doctrines are likely to change to specifically allow this to be efficient. Ours already is.


Sure, and although I do not doubt that you think you have this covered, I can already see multiple avenues to forcing a commitment of forces that will lock your pilots into location.

Enjoy spending hours every night in tidi as you zerg your nano fit BS fleets to blueball parties. See how long you can keep that up.

yeah the day that we're threatened by a highsec miner who thinks he's napoleon is the day we've already gone senile and forgotten our passwords anyway

all those dumb schemes fail when you remember you can't lock us into place without locking yourself into place and we know how many of you there are at that point

we drop overwhelming force on everything because the rest of the galaxy might show up if we don't. if we can't hop from one side of our empire to the other, they can't hop from the other side of the galaxy
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#1973 - 2014-10-02 00:15:47 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Capital pilots are going to have to disabuse themselves of the notion that to get around, they must use jump drives. Finally, the cobweb-covered warp drives of capital ships will get some use Big smile If you're complaining about taking so long to get to the other side of the galaxy, good - that's the whole point of the exercise.

Think local.

truth. if crossing the galaxy were some easy feat we'd have done it by now in real life too. hell, if reaching the next closest star were easy...

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.

Riven Alteritus
Liberty Logistics Company
#1974 - 2014-10-02 00:16:20 UTC
Aw.... Look at all those null-bears crying! Time to spread out yer forces! No more blobs for you folk!

How does it feel having your own misdoings kicking you in the ass??? We all knew large coalitions would break the game, now it's getting fixed!
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1975 - 2014-10-02 00:16:36 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:

we only need 1000 man fleets when the rest of the galaxy has shown up
they no longer can


CFC can stand on equal footing with other groups? That is news to me.

If you don't employ the horde you lose the fight. If you deploy the horde you lose stuff elsewhere.

Keep the confidence up though. It will make the coming reports of your losses the sweeter to see.
Sturm Gewehr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1976 - 2014-10-02 00:17:06 UTC
Posting for support. May want to add a soft/hard cap to the timers (prevent 1 year timers) and soften the blops/jf/rorq penalties though.

Max Rico
Sleeper Slumber Party
#1977 - 2014-10-02 00:17:11 UTC
I'm stoked for these changes. No longer can massive null empires control half the map and rent the land. Nothing would make me happier then to watch said empires crumble and all of null become nothing but raw anarchy and lawlessness that it should be. CCP, forget the haters, this is the best change I've seen in a long time.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1978 - 2014-10-02 00:17:33 UTC
Anyone remember that guy in the Warp speed rig changes who had Warp rigs on his ragnarok? He must have known...
BlueJeff Azul
Reeloaded
Reeloaded.
#1979 - 2014-10-02 00:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: BlueJeff Azul
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.

Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.

Is the balance for Black Ops final?
No. Please give feedback!

The math about the minimum jump timer is inconsistent in the blog, right?
Yes, it is, I'll fix it as soon as I have time, thread's moving too fast atm!

Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much?
Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.


Wait a second! You make an announcement of this importance , which affects all of 0.0, reduces all the hard work and planning to get to jump ships and you have yet to test this new, and shiny, development? Seriously? Who the heck is your marketing team? Are they aware of your plan to anger paying customers in this fashion?


P.S. RL example of poor marketing: Hey, lets change the formula of Coke and name it New Coke! Great idea! Guess what? New Coke bombed...do a frakkin focus group before ya drop bombs like this crap
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#1980 - 2014-10-02 00:18:17 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Aryth wrote:


Yes we will. There will exist multiple mechanics that will allow you to project subcapitals all over the place quickly. In fact the subcap doctrines are likely to change to specifically allow this to be efficient. Ours already is.


Sure, and although I do not doubt that you think you have this covered, I can already see multiple avenues to forcing a commitment of forces that will lock your pilots into location.

Enjoy spending hours every night in tidi as you zerg your nano fit BS fleets to blueball parties. See how long you can keep that up.

yeah the day that we're threatened by a highsec miner who thinks he's napoleon is the day we've already gone senile and forgotten our passwords anyway

all those dumb schemes fail when you remember you can't lock us into place without locking yourself into place and we know how many of you there are at that point

we drop overwhelming force on everything because the rest of the galaxy might show up if we don't. if we can't hop from one side of our empire to the other, they can't hop from the other side of the galaxy

yeah, that's true. except not really. they're called alts. force you to commit, logout. hit you elsewhere. welcome to the new eve where alts rule.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.