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Basically we didn't fully think of all the things this would effect before suggesting it, but who cares.

OK...I know I don't always see the big picture in some issues, but as a cap pilot who actually uses my ships for basic moving, deploying of ships for diff PvE and other basic goofy null sec crap, THIS IS TOTAL CRAP...

This is a complete farce, and one in which it seems that the Devs responsible are either not cap pilots or just don't do anything other than point a..b..c..home and log, so they don't even have an iota of a clue as to the rest of the players they are screwing. These proposed changes are gonna hit the non sov aspects of EvE 1000% more than they will have any effect on sov warfare. I will break this down by points to clarify.

Effects on Joe the non combat cap pilot vs Sam the combat jockey:

Joe is always making jumps in his jump freighter to move and restock null while bringing goods from null to be traded in the hubs
Sam makes a max of 5 jumps a day...if there is a combat op at all

Joe not only has a JF for trading but enjoys a side business of transporting the ships of some friends for PvE goofyness like incurtions and such
Sam flies an interceptor looking for kills while not running his daily cap op, or just gate camps

Joe having one of the few JFs in his corp is called on for running POS fuel, moduals and system upgrades because no one else trained for it cause they wanted combat ships
Sam doesn't worry cause dreads are never needed for moving crap

Joe goes on cap ops when ever he is free to do so in his carrier
Sam goes on every cap op in his dread

This is a generalist look at how 2 cap pilots play the game, and while it doesn't represent everyone, it does fit a lot of pilots and how they play. So in the end what you really have is not nearly the nerf to combat projection but rather a significant nerf to trade, general game play and logistic capabilities.

If you really want to fix long distance force projection and the way in which capital ships are able to move and fight, then rather than some BS fatigue a pilot receives that changes a "jump cool down" instead have it effect combat skills and capabilities of the actual force being projected. I mean seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you wanna effect how combat is controlled you penalize the combat skills.

Penalizing jumping itself does nothing other than break down the ability to travel, for good or ill, which last time I heard is not really the real issue here. This seems more of an arbitrary step in reducing and removing capital ships from the field which will not happen as those alliances and coalitions which the numbers and resources will instead just move capitals in anyways. Pilots rarely pay for the fuel for these campaigns, but rather the alliances themselves, which means costs of travel is rarely a concern for major powers.

The real issue here is that forces can stage from nearly any place in EvE and with a proper chain get to anywhere in a matter of tens of minutes, but that means rather little, as Interceptors can do the same and even do so safer, if not faster. So what really is of concern is what kind of power projection can be applied at long range. This is the real issue and should be what is effected.

The way this can be done is to have fatigue effect combat skills, especially those that are based on PvP combat. This ensures that no matter the size of your pilot base or your wallet, that force projection is weakened. Secondly it prevents other areas of the game that are NOT out of balance to be penalized due to bad planning. Third it doesn't effect pilots who where out doing basic trading, logistics and ferrying friends, when the call goes out that you are needed for an op.

Capitals and gates. Never to be uttered in the same sentence unless its an ALOD.



Look at who is announcing them. Capt. Ibrokesov

nobody would ever put a pos into a WH because ~effort~?

edit: the fix is probably to make the timer stick to the moved asset AND the body
edit2: if you don't do this people will just have an alt network for every major jump route and you will have to deal with a lot of account sharing problems

This will become an issue for the majority of Eve players because it affects the economy of the game (via logistics).

-Liang

This 100% - I am at my very limit of how much tedium I can stand with the way jump freighters work TODAY. Take even .1 light years away and I will never fly one again.

Will Mods evac the entire east side of the map by petition since they are removing our ability to do it ourselves?

brb, crafting a galleon

My opinion is that a great deal of the complaining stems from a lack of capacity to think about the big picture. Changes on this scale will both destroy and create new opportunities and gameplay. New mid way trade hubs, Increased industry in low and null to offset the challenges of longer trade routes. Haulers will likely hand off their cargo more so instead of cargo using a single JF from deep null to Jita, It will jump part way, and hand it off to the next pilot.

In terms of combat, it will require alliances to be far more strategic in when, where, and how they use their assets. If you choose to go the gate route, you open yourself up for ambushes and hit and run tactics to slow you down. You provide the defenders more time to gather their forces promoting larger scale and more strategic conflicts. Every fight and every asset lost has the potential to become more and more significant allowing attrition strategies to come into play more so than before. I'm sure the majority of the players complaining don't think about strategy this way, all they see is themselves and how they want to do everything when they want to do it. EVE is a large scale war and economy strategy simulator. Sometimes effective strategy means planning weeks, months, years? in advance. You want to talk about significant gameplay, These changes open the doors to making your 1 ship kill mean more than it did before. It also encourages you to think more about how you use your ship because losing it means you can't simply hop back in.

This is all very different from the gameplay most people are used to. This will undoubtedly "ruin eve" for some players. They will unsubscribe. Does that make it a bad change? No. The problem is players are enjoying and engaging in play styles that are detrimental to engaging and emergent gameplay. You want your actions to matter on the battle field? These changes give you that power.

By adding all these challenges, CCP gets time to find and implement more changes. Titans were designed with the thought of only a few EVER existing in the game. Players proved them wrong. NULL was never supposed to become what it is. It did anyway. The players will always find a solution and no solution CCP implements is likely to be perfect.

The very bottom line is, there is no way to fix this problem without upsetting players. It's been the norm for far too long and people have become accustomed to it. But it needs to be fixed, and that means disrupting people's play styles because some playstyle's are bad for EVE.

@CCP Greyscale

Have you thought this through? The sheer amount of hell this will rain down upon the most respected logistics people. This change is going to be hell for logistics in outer space.

It is already one of the most time consuming jobs that exsist in a nul alliance, that just got even worse to a point that it is undoable.

One thing is sure, the ice market will collapse. Big time. Most likely the highsec market which thrives on purchases done by nul will probably crash as nul alliances are now forced to manufacture every single piece for a ship, ammo or whatever and mine every single ore in their own space. Jus because it is no longer an option to buy it in highsec and move it down.

Not to mention the amount of cyno accounts that will be unsubbed. Probably a huge chunk of capital alts as well.

Fights like Asakai and B-R will no longer happen. You can say that capitals can jump gates but it is far too easy to rapecage the entire range of gates needed to get to a fight. So that won't be an option as well. In other words, supercapital fights are a no no.

Think of the insane amount of consequences this change is going to have.

Most of nullsec either has a carrier alt or uses carriers to get stuff around if they don't have a JF. So yes, it does affect a large number of people.