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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1121 - 2014-10-01 20:34:52 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
@CCP GREYSCALE

I love all of this- but one qualm I have with it is the length fatigue can extend to- I feel like there should be some hard limit to prevent players from having to wait absurd amounts of time to use a jump drive again- nothing of significande, maybe maye the maximum a week or around there.

Still- I love all of this!

Keep it comin'- this will be great Smile


Yup, this is a thing we might end up doing.

Awesome- thanks for responding Smile

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#1122 - 2014-10-01 20:35:04 UTC
Ib4 "Oh yeah, we're shuffling moons around again."

...

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1123 - 2014-10-01 20:35:23 UTC
Nagarisai wrote:
bp920091 wrote:
Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.

Good job, I couldnt have created a faster way to kill smaller groups if i tried.



totally agree from your brothers in venal!, you will cut us off logistically from the rest of new eden.........i just dont know what to say.........theres gotta be a better way that this??


Thought that there were lots of ways already. Interceptors, deep space transports, convoys....you know, all the things that the stone-age players from around 2006 used?
DrunkenOne
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#1124 - 2014-10-01 20:35:45 UTC
I would suggest you take the next 24 hours CCP and rethink this. As a player that has played since week 2. I would likely be done and unsub 30+ accounts. This is the worst thing I have ever seen! I would love to talk to the players you consulted on this as they are clearly high sec noobs or low sec gate campers. You can clearly get rid of 2/3 of the regions as who the hell would go out to omist now for example?

If this doesn't cost ccp 100k subs I don't know what ppl are thinking. Every JF/Super/Titan/Cyno account are completely worthless. No one in their right mind will take caps through gates. And old player assets are now worthless. I could care less about flying frigs around 60 jumps to fight BNI.


Best wishes if this actually sticks.

D1
Ehud Gera
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#1125 - 2014-10-01 20:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ehud Gera
Love these changes. As a low sec FW corp it will be nice to fear the hotdrop less. We may even be able to use caps ourselves someday! *winks*

I do think that Logistics ships (JF's) should probably have increased jump range. And probably Blops should get similar treatment. Both these types really aren't the real problem.

Could we see a balance pass on BS's and BC's soon? Like to see more large subcaps be viable now that hotdrop o'clock is supposed to lessen, and gates become better content makers than cynos.
flakeys
Doomheim
#1126 - 2014-10-01 20:36:09 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Etienne Picard wrote:
This will alienate a lot of elite pvp'ers and veterans from the game.

lol @ calling dropping more supers than the other guy "elite pvp"



I'm also unsure if etienne meant that as a negative or possitive thing Lol

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

bp920091
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#1127 - 2014-10-01 20:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: bp920091
Nagarisai wrote:
bp920091 wrote:
Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.

Good job, I couldnt have created a faster way to kill smaller groups if i tried.



totally agree from your brothers in venal!, you will cut us off logistically from the rest of new eden.........i just dont know what to say.........theres gotta be a better way that this??



the better way isnt hard, just dont have these changes affect JFs/rorquals. Let them have their current range. Not a hard decision.

OR

CCP could reshuffle moons so that you didnt NEED to go across EVE to get the resources needed for T2 production

http://k162space.com/2013/01/30/visualization-of-moon-mineral-concentrations
^^ For those who dont know how certain moons are concentrated in certain regions of space. Might be good reading Greyscale
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1128 - 2014-10-01 20:37:38 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Orange timer gets set to essentially 10% of the blue timer on jump, otherwise fatigue is always 0 when you jump. We're trying to make sure that it's clearly explained in the tooltips.


Red colour for the jump cooldown timer would be much better, as the colour itself has an international meaning of 'no' or 'stop'. Orange is very vague.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1129 - 2014-10-01 20:37:44 UTC
Djana Libra wrote:
So why exactly does stuff always have to be over done?

Capitals jumping trough gates? Thats just plain wrong....

Why not just add a Jump Drive cooldown.
1st jump 5 min cooldown, 2nd jump 10 min cooldown, 3rd jump 20 min cooldown. etc etc Jump counter resets 24 hours after last jump.
limit the jump range to 5 - 8 LY depending on ship.


Because timers suck and are boring in a game? Because it's telling your players to log out of your game because you're not letting them play any more?

Basically the timer thing is there to create a major disincentive for moving your ship. The disincentive is that moving your ship will make the game much much more boring for you.

So, the goal then becomes to not move your ship at all because doing so generates boredom. The only escape from the boredom is incredibly long and dangerous gate travel.

Hence, the incentive is to bring out sub caps which are much more capable of taking gates.

But capitals are what's used to hasten the really boring structure grinding mechanic.

So now you're left figuring out which is more boring - moving your capitals or grinding structure with sub capitals.

For all small entities that can't afford welping cap fleets on gates or regional cap caches the only viable answer will be structure grinding with sub cap fleets.

Let me tell you, after having ground down Catch in Siege Bombers for months, that's really really ******* boring.

I would much prefer CCP accelerate the game pace instead of diminish it by introducing more disincentives through boredom.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#1130 - 2014-10-01 20:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
handige harrie wrote:
Upon a quick check, the only regions with npc space you can reach without using sov space are:

great wildlands
curse
syndicate
pure blind
outer ring



From 8s-0e1 (Mordus NPC station system in Pure Blind), 5 light years allows you to reach three stations in south-west Venal (r-k, z-g, y6-):
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Venal/Z-GY5S,R-KZK7,Y6-HPG

Also some Lonetrek LS:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Lonetrek/Daras,Iitanmadan,Anin,Nannaras,Tamo#sec
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1131 - 2014-10-01 20:38:00 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Will cyno jammers stop caps jumping in through your gate?


Nope, that's what bubbles are for.

Ripard Teg wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
If this change goes in, please make jump-cloning incur jump fatigue at some (likely greatly reduced) level.

The goal: to prevent super-large, super-rich alliances from just building caches of capitals/supers at various NPC 0.0 or low-sec staging points around the galaxy, and just getting to them by jump-cloning (and in so doing, avoiding jump fatigue).


Jump cloning is not a thing we want to touch more than we can help at this point, it's a larger topic.

Yes, caching is going to be something of a thing, but the amount of caches you need to get good coverage of the bulk of the cluster is large (somewhere on the order of 1 per region), and the effort involved in restocking them is distinctly non-trivial.

k, as long as you recognize that the number of regions where fights actually occur is going to be a fairly low number, particularly initially and particularly given the terrain you're introducing to the game. Back of the envelope calcs suggest you could get quite good coverage of the hot areas with caches in five areas: central Derelik, Delve, north-central Lonetrek, central Heimatar/southern Metropolis, and Tash Murkon. Putting a couple hundred carriers and dreads in these five locations is quite doable for the largest alliances. Putting caches in every region is unnecessary and pointless since...

As a side effect, this change also makes the north and northeast much more easily defensible since the systems in that area are both isolated from convenient low-sec patches and quite spread out geographically. Again, my back of the envelope calc suggests that much of Deklein is going to be three jumps from Pure Blind. Under this new system, that's a lot. And that's a short jaunt compared to trying to hunt in Outer Passage or Cobalt Edge.


Initially, that wouldn't surprise me. How it plays out over the medium term is a more interesting ballgame. We'll see how it goes and adjust as necessary.

Kat Ayclism wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Irya Boone wrote:
words


Just to make sure everyone's aware, doomsdays can't be fired at subcaps.

Why not- after this? (Serious question)


Because I took the ability to do so away from them almost exactly three years ago, and the reasons for doing so still hold :)
Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1132 - 2014-10-01 20:38:34 UTC
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Upon a quick check, the only regions with npc space you can reach without using sov space are:

great wildlands
curse
syndicate
pure blind
outer ring



From 8s-0e1 (Mordus NPC station system), you can hit three stations in south-west Venal (r-k, z-g, y6-):
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Venal/Z-GY5S,R-KZK7,Y6-HPG

Also some Lonetrek LS:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Lonetrek/Daras,Iitanmadan,Anin,Nannaras,Tamo#sec


Great. Choke points.
WASPY69
Xerum.
#1133 - 2014-10-01 20:38:58 UTC
Looks like the "everybody is a winner" theme park is imminent.

These are probably some of the worst proposed changes in a very long time, and if CCP aren't careful they WILL lose a ton of subscriptions. Sad part is... they probably won't listen to us and just go through with the changes anyways.

This signature intentionally left blank

Thalesia
Real Bad Company
#1134 - 2014-10-01 20:39:04 UTC
AssandTits wrote:
Thalesia wrote:
Excellent changes CCP Dev team, I am really pleased that such a large number of cockroaches from large null-sec alliances have comitted themselves to leaving eve already.

This will:
a) Open up eve to players not wishing to participate in the insane large null-sec alliance hiearchy.

b) spark a massive amount of local capital fights on a more even playing field without one side being bailed out from the the other side of the galaxy by someone without a stake in the fight.

c) get ridd of an enormous amount of human garbage from PL and Goonswarm, both bloated and rotten alliances that hold way too much sway in too much of the game's content.

d) take away alot of the options to circumvent confrontations, and by extension creating more content for everyone.

I sincerly hope you manage to withstand the massive lobbying effort being undertaken by the large null-sec alliances wishing to controll game design.


And how pray tell will the attacking force arrive at said battlesite? Through the magic of wishful thinking and lack of intelligent analysis perhaps?

Hai gais can youz waitz fo uz, we iz trappez cause we got 44 days till we can haz jump again

Seriously READ what is being proposed before verbally crapping yourself next time


did you perhaps not read my post? I said LOCAL cap fights, as in people who live within 1 jump of each other and the like, maybe you should read my post next time before YOU crap yourself.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1135 - 2014-10-01 20:39:15 UTC
A couple more questions (and thanks for replying to my first comment):

1) In the past you guys have said that CCP will be attempting to measure the effects of changes that have been made to evaluate the change. What criteria will you be using to measure this change? What measurable things will you be looking at to decide if this change was good or bad?

2) POS jump bridges are supposed to be a reward for holding space. Shouldn't there be some sort of reduce fatigue from using them vs using a titan bridge? Otherwise, why would sovholding alliances build and pay for them?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1136 - 2014-10-01 20:39:48 UTC
Ackbarre wrote:
This devblog has to be the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time. You should just leave it the way it is right now and make no changes. If you continue with this course of action it's no wonder why so many CCP employees are jumping ship so to speak for other game companies. I predict Monoclegate and all the other issues brought about by Incarna. Will pale in comparison to the outrage this is going to generate.


Monoclegate was an issue for a majority of eve players, this is an issue for people with carrier alts.

LolLolLol

Keep the tears coming tho

I have a Ph.D

Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#1137 - 2014-10-01 20:39:52 UTC
Is there any hope of making it so that black ops ships jumping/bridging to a covert cyno aren't affected by the cooldown? I'm just seeing the value of covert cynos drop dramatically with this change.

Every day I'm wafflin!

Mavros Pete
Doomheim
#1138 - 2014-10-01 20:39:52 UTC
Can you at least create some sort of industrial carrier - like vessel, that will allow us to move our ships to a different region without fatigue? Should be non combat capable, just a a ship mover. That way we can still enjoy subcap pvp in different regions.

Also not all ships should be able to fit a cyno gen. Cyno should be ship specific like Recons, Covert ops frigs or t1 frigs for cyno alt chains ( easy to kill). No more supers with cynos that can summon the horde to the rescue.

My only concern is for small entities or solo players that enjoy a nomadic life style. Fatigue will make it very difficult to move, hense a need for a craft that will be exempt of that



Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#1139 - 2014-10-01 20:40:00 UTC
since you also mentioned you might want to revisit jumpclones too i always had the dream to have distance based cooldown for jumpclones.

The only reason i don't use specialized clones is that i can't change them fast enough when i change ships. If i could jump between clone within a single system with lets say 1h cooldown... would be awesome. It also discourages me to use drugs, since when i switch from shield to armor ships i have to stick with the effect.

Clonejuming would make things far more interesting and make me consume more drugs and in general also make me use specialized/expensive clones, rather than my current 100mil generic genolution clone which works for all my ships.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

EarthQuake51a
Quebec's Underdog League
Quebec United Legions
#1140 - 2014-10-01 20:40:10 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
EarthQuake51a wrote:
Right... Cyno Jammers will be useless (making titan/super production very risky), capitals and supers can go trough gate...

Wait...

Does that mean a completely "mobile"wrecking ball fleet can just burn sov in any region in eve in less than 3 days? (no wonder the TIDI it would generate)

I can't imagine EVE like that...


Good luck doing that in SUpers... ANd not getting ass raped on the other side of the gate in a camp full of carriers.



Nothing stops the wrecking ball except another bigger wrecking ball fleet or TIDI (soul crushing lag)