EVE Information Portal

Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.

Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.

Is the balance for Black Ops final?
No. Please give feedback!

The math about the minimum jump timer is inconsistent in the blog, right?
Yes, it is, I'll fix it as soon as I have time, thread's moving too fast atm!

Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much?
Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.

The worst part of this, is that probably most of EVE agrees that capital projection needed to be fixed and CCP still managed to enrage so many people.

* There's so many ways for this fix to be achieved but, in typical CCP fashion, they decided to use a hammer instead of a surgical tool. You can't and won't fix the problems in EVE in a few piece-meal fixes. You need to take your time on this and really think about it. A token meeting with CSM idiots and a round table in Iceland isn't enough. Eve is organic and CCP loves to advertise it as a sandbox. Well, that sandbox has many variables and dynamics that will be affected here. Many of which are welcome but many are not. However, they needed to be accounted for and weighed appropriately.

* I guess what bothers me is CCP's approach. There are certain things that are not working well in this game. (Cap Projection ofc/null stagnation/Sov Mechanics/Actual utility of Sov/Conflict Drivers/Supers/)... I believe these are all interwoven and need to be addressed together.

* I don't think a half-assed dev blog proceeded by a meeting or two the month before adequately shows me, as a CCP customer, that you've put the proper thought, testing, and brainstorming into this that I would expect from a company i'm investing in. That's disheartening and I think the rough nature of this blog is where much of the animosity from the user base stems from. Various departments need to scour ideas and fixes and CCP needs to spends months trying to understand how these are going to fit together for a further of EVE online while still intriguing existing and new customers. Not only do these departments need to have a variety of alternatives available to balance their area, but these need to be discussed and gone over en mass BEFORE sweeping changes are implemented.

* I do think some of the changes can be worked. A Jump timer + "fatigue" of SOME sort can work, but does CCP really believe this current mechanism is the best choice? Have a 3 minute timer, then a 6 minute timer for two successive jumps if jumped again within 30 minutes, then a 10 minute timer and it at 10 minutes for every subsequent jump thereafter. You could implement fatigue which reduces the efficacy of weapon systems. In other words, You'll be able to still jump long distances and technically move across EVE if you wait out your timers, but the fatigue can implement a negative weapons bonus to negate your ability to use drones/defensive mods/doomsdays/gunnery etc. You can have a base to where after 4 consecutive jumps, you can't use weapon systems/defensive systems for 3 hours or so. The negative weapons bonus would affect your skills irrespective of whether you're still in a carrier or not. A jump timer coupled with a fatigue that stacks negative weapon bonuses, you neuter your opportunity to dogpile into fights(cause you'll be useless), you significantly reduce the ability to jump across EVE with the timer alone, but you'll still leave opportunity for hot drops/logistics. This would permit logistic capitals to be use effectively, but coupled with death clones, would nullify the ability of alliances to dogpile into large fights multiple regions away WITHOUT already having jump clones/ships or an alt in place in that area.

Note: I spent 5 minutes thinking up a more sound alternative that would probably infuriate many less people.


* PS: Don't let capitals go through gates. FFS that just sounds stupid. It will look stupid. it's antithetical to capitals and how we've all known them. I get that changes are necessary, but if you're going to keep some form of jump, make it a necessary and not optional. There are already discussions of nano-nig gangs and its going to be stupid.

Haven't had time to read all 34 pages to see if anyone has already brought this up:

If this change goes in, please make jump-cloning incur jump fatigue at some (likely greatly reduced) level.

The goal: to prevent super-large, super-rich alliances from just building caches of capitals/supers at various NPC 0.0 or low-sec staging points around the galaxy, and just getting to them by jump-cloning (and in so doing, avoiding jump fatigue).

About caps jumping gates:

1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o

2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea?

No problem.

I don't like the exponential factoring in given the problems with cool down time others expressed. However if a set system is to be put into place, there needs to be a benefit to using a Black Ops ship. As it currently stands, there is none as it is penalized the same as a Capital ship.

Please consider this when discussing with the CSM about these changes and number balances. I wouldn't go so far as to say that BLOPs should be half the Capital ship cool down factor, but it's certainly worthy of having smaller cool down than a capital.

some questions:

Is there expected to be a noticeable impact on isotope usage as some players opt to use gates?
Is it correct to assume that in some circumstances(for instance using regional gate from tenal to cobalt edge) the projection has increased (not overall)? < terribly worded question
Will you consider allowing us to condense the timers in the top right corner slightly? That thjing is going to be very full for a lowsec pirate with jump fatigue/cooldown/NPC aggro/Player Aggro/Weapons timer etc.
Do you expect there to be a increase in capital uasage as cyno alts are no longer required?
On that note how many cyno alt accounts do you expect to be unsubbed/repurposed?
Will there be a follow up capital ships/module tune up or rebalance soon or is that undetermined yet?


Player related questions:
Who else is going to run dread roams after patch?
How many killmails do you expect to see with inertia stabs in the lows?
Anyone can think of really out-of-the box things you can or will do with a capital after patch?

They used carriers, which were longer range than current JFs. JFs were introduced with the carrier nerf (before then, you'd load up iterons in your carrier and it effectively held ~200km3) T2 production has never existed in any serious amount without long-range jump capability, as you'll find in the short period between Castor and Cold War (dreadnaughts can haul) there was very little t2 manufacturing (no invention, t2 expensive as all ******* hell and everyones poor).