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[Oceanus] Cyno Displacement Zone around starbases

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Author
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2014-09-22 10:15:20 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Maybe, just maybe we should

PROHIBIT ALL MODULES in this zone, that way no more repping carriers hugging the shields, no more links hugging the shields etc


I would say this should apply to inside the shields, but a bridging Titan in lowsec for FW wouldn't last 12 seconds if it had to bridge outside the shields, so for that reason, I would say that is OK for now.



Not good as well. BEcause then enemy ships could not get close and tackle a carrier there if their own modules did nto work there.

I understand your idea, but remember if it works for both ways it does nerf even more subcapitals.

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Bremmon
Definitely Not Outer Rim Minerals
Circle of Hell
#322 - 2014-09-22 12:58:13 UTC
After reading people complaining, people with maybe viable solutions, and the overall theme of the update being "let's fix it till it breaks again". Seriously needs good amounts of testing before implemented. the bridges being moved is one hell of a nightmare alone, just from a bookmark perspective. Retool pos's totally, or at least clue us in as to what else you have planned for the future because as I see it it doesn't just break to fix stuff, it requires a major change on the part of everyone who utilizes what has just been changed for non-expolit and that number is far higher. I for one would love to see the transcript of the csm and how it got confirmed that this was still a good idea. How I fully understand risk vs reward, the situations which will now come up because of this will be rather large. The new system can potentially kill ships because oh look, the enemy can call in reinforcements because they are outside the range, but the slowboating (insert ship type here) is 15 km from either the shield or the edge of the no-cyno zone. I have no issue with the 25 km range, my issue is that a cyno (by the system) cannot be lit at all unless shield is down? You already require the cyno to be 25 km away, so force cynoing in ships to appear that far away in a 180 degree spread around that side of the pos.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#323 - 2014-09-22 15:51:10 UTC
Bremmon wrote:
After reading people complaining, people with maybe viable solutions, and the overall theme of the update being "let's fix it till it breaks again". Seriously needs good amounts of testing before implemented. the bridges being moved is one hell of a nightmare alone, just from a bookmark perspective. Retool pos's totally, or at least clue us in as to what else you have planned for the future because as I see it it doesn't just break to fix stuff, it requires a major change on the part of everyone who utilizes what has just been changed for non-expolit and that number is far higher. I for one would love to see the transcript of the csm and how it got confirmed that this was still a good idea. How I fully understand risk vs reward, the situations which will now come up because of this will be rather large. The new system can potentially kill ships because oh look, the enemy can call in reinforcements because they are outside the range, but the slowboating (insert ship type here) is 15 km from either the shield or the edge of the no-cyno zone. I have no issue with the 25 km range, my issue is that a cyno (by the system) cannot be lit at all unless shield is down? You already require the cyno to be 25 km away, so force cynoing in ships to appear that far away in a 180 degree spread around that side of the pos.

Your reward for being in a pos is the invulnerable shielding
Your risk is that you dont get to summon bigger fish constantly

This is just finally adding some risk to hiding out in a pos
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#324 - 2014-09-22 17:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#325 - 2014-09-22 18:00:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

that makes sense - so hostiles will know where people will be popping out of a cyno inside the exclusion zone instead of having to guess

better solution than the one commonly proposed here, I like it
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#326 - 2014-09-22 18:02:21 UTC
What happens if the tower is online but without password? (Thus without forcefield)

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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#327 - 2014-09-22 18:08:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

Very nice -- I wouldn't have thought to move the beacon itself. That makes a lot of sense and is very simple to implement. Thanks for considering this compromise.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#328 - 2014-09-22 18:09:53 UTC
Wow

You actually listened

Am I in a dream
Dirk MacGirk
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#329 - 2014-09-22 18:13:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.


Superdupe change. thanks for listening
Georgik Sojik
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#330 - 2014-09-22 18:16:51 UTC
Forgive the question if it has been previously asked.

Does this exclusion zone only affect normal cynofields? Would it be still possible to bridge bombers/recons/cloaky T3s and BlackOps within the 25km zone?
Powers Sa
#331 - 2014-09-22 18:28:12 UTC
Here i was looking forward to all the would be cyno pilots trying to rage light and getting errors.

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#332 - 2014-09-22 18:29:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

You still haven't explained why you're moving jump bridges and cyno gen arrays.
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#333 - 2014-09-22 18:32:10 UTC
Math is hard, but I guess this is an ok substitute.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#334 - 2014-09-22 18:36:33 UTC
Georgik Sojik wrote:
Forgive the question if it has been previously asked.

Does this exclusion zone only affect normal cynofields? Would it be still possible to bridge bombers/recons/cloaky T3s and BlackOps within the 25km zone?


This applies to all cynos, including covert cynos.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Current Habit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2014-09-22 18:38:12 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Wow

You actually listened

Am I in a dream


CCP also just used the idea of a player when it came to jump fuel increase (decrease tope volume by 50% instead of increasing fuel bays)
Dirk MacGirk
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#336 - 2014-09-22 18:39:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.

In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.

The OP has been updated.
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.


Now about that decision to shift Cyno Beacons and Jump Bridges out to the 25km position? Whyyyyyyyyyy? That does nothing with regard to this bumping issue and really nothing to create a shift in risk. What is does do is create the changing of millions of bookmarks.
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#337 - 2014-09-22 18:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
It is always good to find that we are making a small progress in regards to the Cyno Bumping of Titans. However the details regarding bumping in general with a POS involved have yet to be clarified upon. We recently lost one of our pilots to a permaban. The pilot was bumping a titan that was sticking it's head out of the shield. He did not have the POS password and was using a tornado to bump with. The thread is found from, link . In that regard is there any plans to revise or properly adjust the policies so this information is properly conveyed?
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#338 - 2014-09-22 19:26:02 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
It is always good to find that we are making a small progress in regards to the Cyno Bumping of Titans. However the details regarding bumping in general with a POS involved have yet to be clarified upon. We recently lost one of our pilots to a permaban. The pilot was bumping a titan that was sticking it's head out of the shield. He did not have the POS password and was using a tornado to bump with. The thread is found from, link . In that regard is there any plans to revise or properly adjust the policies so this information is properly conveyed?


This, and CCP needs to make it crystal clear that they are indeed able to accurately verify - after the fact - the circumstances of a titan getting bumped... simply because I foresee a day when someone will discover a titan sitting outside of a POS, is bumped further off and killed and the pilots involved are banned because all the dead titan pilot needs to do is merely insinuate that s/he was inside (in part or in whole) of the force field.

Part of this is the edge case of a Titan's model sticking partially (either substantially or minimally) outside of a forefield, allowing it to be bumped by an external ship. CCP should clarify that IN the forcefield means completely inside in a verifiable manner.

In short - A titan pilot who is unaware of his ship's position in relation to a very visible boundary should not be covered by nebulous and arbitrarily-enforced rules which carry the most extreme consequences.
Klyith
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#339 - 2014-09-22 19:45:59 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
I foresee a day when someone will discover a titan sitting outside of a POS, is bumped further off and killed and the pilots involved are banned because all the dead titan pilot needs to do is merely insinuate that s/he was inside (in part or in whole) of the force field.

Hysterics much? One guy that we know of has received some sort of punishment, for bumping in a manner that was declared an exploit. The rule as originally set out is pretty clear: bump a ship out of the field when you don't have the password, get banned. It just got muddied as people found ways to exploit without getting caught / being punished.

The game just has a weird grey area because different people -- including different GMs evidently -- have different opinions on what "inside the forcefield" means. It is the targeting box? The ship's collision sphere? The model as drawn by client graphics, which isn't always consistent from client to client?

Quote:
Part of this is the edge case of a Titan's model sticking partially (either substantially or minimally) outside of a forefield, allowing it to be bumped by an external ship. CCP should clarify that IN the forcefield means completely inside in a verifiable manner.

Or clarify that a ship is inside the forcefield when the game says "you fail to target ship because it is inside the forcefield". The new rules may come down to don't bump if you can't lock. If you want to prevent those lying titan pilots from insinuating that they were inside the shields, lock them and screenshot before bumping them further out.

The main reason we are having this discussion in a thread about cynos around starbases is that cyno-bumping gave people way too much plausible deniability.
Grarr Dexx
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#340 - 2014-09-22 19:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Grarr Dexx
By "listened to feedback", do you mean "my PL buddies told me on Mumble they'd lose out on a bunch of dread kills if they couldn't just warp to zero on the targets and light a cyno without trouble"? You finally added a minor measure of skill to hot dropping stationary targets and all it takes is a bit of lobbying from your old pals for you to completely cave in. Weak ****.

At least PRETEND you're interested in fixing the supercap plague infesting this game, ****. Is my voice worth less just because I don't have a supercap hogging one of my accounts?