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[Oceanus] Cyno Displacement Zone around starbases

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#281 - 2014-09-19 15:10:02 UTC
The biggest issue I have with this is that the exclusion zone prevents cynos from being lit at all, instead of just allowing it but placing incoming ships 25+km. Titans dying without being able to bring in backup after being bumped out is less content generation than a titan being bumped out and bringing a fleet in to help.
Ruse Lander
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2014-09-19 15:16:23 UTC
I don't know very much about coding, but if I were tasked with this problem I would work along the lines of doing a collision check based on the landing coordinates for incoming ships (allowing for ship radial size) and the POS coordinates (plus forcefield radius). If true then invert, rotate, or randomize the landing coordinate until the collision check is false.

I believe this would be an actual fix to the issue instead of the jury-rigging the announced change feels like.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#283 - 2014-09-19 15:22:55 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Any time you bring that fleet into a POS you're going to have to take an extra (unprotected) jump to get inside the POS shields, which adds a layer of vulnerability (albeit a small one).

As a small first step, it's a good one.... hopefully not the last one.

Good game play comes from activities being risky, not from activities being easy... and right now it is far too safe and easy to move a cap fleet (or jump freighter) anywhere you like.

The only time you'd ever do this would be if there were simply no lowsec stations that you could route through whatsoever, because you'd much rather jump to a docking ring (perfect safety) and dock up to recap.

For supercaps, yeah i suppose you have to warp instead but who the **** slowboats a titan instead of warping it into the pos - I sure don't, if my titan is getting cynoed anywhere it's getting cynoed so that I can mwd-warp into the pos (which you can do pretty close to the pos by having a bookmark/alt on the other side you warp to at 100km) instead of take 30s or more to slowboat.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#284 - 2014-09-19 15:28:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

For those that claim they never got a fight transporting goods back and forth to null in a freighter op either:
1: Never actually did one.
2: Did one or two, got bored halfway through and logged off (conveniently forgetting to mention that part).
3: Had opponents so wimpy at that time you wouldn't get a good fight no matter what you did.

Time to stop listening to your lazy industry pilots. If you want to have more fun, let CCP start interjecting some of the risk back into null sec daily activities.

We have organized and ran two large freighter ops relatively recently. It was unfun crap for all involved, and naturally because we were moving huge, expensive **** we made very, very sure there would be no fights whatsoever. All of the nullsec empires have been doing freighter ops on and off because we have to in order to get outpost upgrades or large ihub upgrades. We still haven't had any interesting content and anyone who thinks they ever were fun hasn't done one since 2007 and has their memories of what they actually were utterly addled by the tendency to remember only the interesting stuff and forget the soul-crushing drudgery.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#285 - 2014-09-19 16:49:43 UTC
man you can tell who in this thread has actually run freighter ops and who is making up fanfic about it
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#286 - 2014-09-19 17:00:50 UTC
I had fun on a freighter op once.

But that was also the day I took lsd.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#287 - 2014-09-19 17:11:49 UTC
I do not believe that a single Goonswarm freighter op since Dominion forced nullsec to start doing them again (for ihubs and upgrades) has ever generated a fight. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2014-09-19 18:16:54 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I do not believe that a single Goonswarm freighter op since Dominion forced nullsec to start doing them again (for ihubs and upgrades) has ever generated a fight. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Nope you are not wrong there. I thought I was going on a lowsec roam fun fleet, but I was tricked, it was a freighter op.

Any way, Fozzie is doing his typical, taking a sledgehammer to kill a fly, solution to the titan bumping problem. Blunt, clumsy, crude, and effective, but a little overkill, with no regard to unexpected consequences.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#289 - 2014-09-19 18:52:39 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Caldess wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Finally, a move towards putting risk and difficulty back into null sec logistics and fleet movement.

Jump freighter logistics and easy long distance movement of capital assets has been crippling the game for far too long.

An excellent first step, hopefully only the first of many.

Keep this up and our noble null sec players might actually start enjoying the game again, despite what they think at the moment. Blink


Please explain yourself why this in any way stops me from moving my 250 man cap fleet from the North to the South just a second slower than i can now?

And while you are on it explain to me why Jump Freighter logistics (which you obviously never did) will be any harder now?

Any time you bring that fleet into a POS you're going to have to take an extra (unprotected) jump to get inside the POS shields, which adds a layer of vulnerability (albeit a small one).

As a small first step, it's a good one.... hopefully not the last one.

Good game play comes from activities being risky, not from activities being easy... and right now it is far too safe and easy to move a cap fleet (or jump freighter) anywhere you like.

It's ironic, people mock those that say yes to the thought of needing to do freighter ops again to move logistics out to null. And yet those freighter ops used to provide more good fights in a single night than you currently see in Null in a week or more.

Harder and more time consuming? Yes.
More fun, more fights, more unexpected surprises (both good and bad)? Absolutely.

For those that claim they never got a fight transporting goods back and forth to null in a freighter op either:
1: Never actually did one.
2: Did one or two, got bored halfway through and logged off (conveniently forgetting to mention that part).
3: Had opponents so wimpy at that time you wouldn't get a good fight no matter what you did.

Time to stop listening to your lazy industry pilots. If you want to have more fun, let CCP start interjecting some of the risk back into null sec daily activities.


Amen brother.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#290 - 2014-09-19 18:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Miss read the first post

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#291 - 2014-09-19 19:00:09 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Any time you bring that fleet into a POS you're going to have to take an extra (unprotected) jump to get inside the POS shields, which adds a layer of vulnerability (albeit a small one).

As a small first step, it's a good one.... hopefully not the last one.

Good game play comes from activities being risky, not from activities being easy... and right now it is far too safe and easy to move a cap fleet (or jump freighter) anywhere you like.

The only time you'd ever do this would be if there were simply no lowsec stations that you could route through whatsoever, because you'd much rather jump to a docking ring (perfect safety) and dock up to recap.

For supercaps, yeah i suppose you have to warp instead but who the **** slowboats a titan instead of warping it into the pos - I sure don't, if my titan is getting cynoed anywhere it's getting cynoed so that I can mwd-warp into the pos (which you can do pretty close to the pos by having a bookmark/alt on the other side you warp to at 100km) instead of take 30s or more to slowboat.


Plz ccp add the no cyno ring to low sec npc stations and all outposts.

The increased risk of landing 25km vrs right next to the pos is if you are hot dropped there is a chance you will live cuss you can slow boat to the pos. This wont happen when you have 25km to travel. The dreads will eat you in one cycle

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#292 - 2014-09-19 19:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

For those that claim they never got a fight transporting goods back and forth to null in a freighter op either:
1: Never actually did one.
2: Did one or two, got bored halfway through and logged off (conveniently forgetting to mention that part).
3: Had opponents so wimpy at that time you wouldn't get a good fight no matter what you did.

Time to stop listening to your lazy industry pilots. If you want to have more fun, let CCP start interjecting some of the risk back into null sec daily activities.

We have organized and ran two large freighter ops relatively recently. It was unfun crap for all involved, and naturally because we were moving huge, expensive **** we made very, very sure there would be no fights whatsoever. All of the nullsec empires have been doing freighter ops on and off because we have to in order to get outpost upgrades or large ihub upgrades. We still haven't had any interesting content and anyone who thinks they ever were fun hasn't done one since 2007 and has their memories of what they actually were utterly addled by the tendency to remember only the interesting stuff and forget the soul-crushing drudgery.


Dude there was a major difference between 07 and 14. Back then you would be attacked and harassed. But with the game mechanics today with power projection and blue doughnut there is no incentive to attack a freoghter op. Chances are peeps interpreted the op as bait.

I think with proper changes to powwr projection and occupancy based sov those boring ops would be fun like they once were

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#293 - 2014-09-19 19:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I do not believe that a single Goonswarm freighter op since Dominion forced nullsec to start doing them again (for ihubs and upgrades) has ever generated a fight. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.


Didnt you loose a freighter last year cuss PL found out about it. It was when you were busy killing n3 so the russians could take the space.

Edit looks like content was generated back in the day
http://eve-search.com/thread/503644-0/page/all

http://youtu.be/fmj24_fn9DI

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#294 - 2014-09-19 21:26:50 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

Dude there was a major difference between 07 and 14. Back then you would be attacked and harassed. But with the game mechanics today with power projection and blue doughnut there is no incentive to attack a freoghter op. Chances are peeps interpreted the op as bait.

I think with proper changes to powwr projection and occupancy based sov those boring ops would be fun like they once were

making power projection harder makes it harder to attack a freighter op, not easier. our power is in place before the op starts, to **** with us you've got to get there when you find out about it

our overriding goal with any freighter op is the freighters not be shot at and we will organize them to ensure this happens, as will anyone else. it is much EASIER to attack a freighter op now, not harder
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#295 - 2014-09-19 22:05:38 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
The biggest issue I have with this is that the exclusion zone prevents cynos from being lit at all, instead of just allowing it but placing incoming ships 25+km. Titans dying without being able to bring in backup after being bumped out is less content generation than a titan being bumped out and bringing a fleet in to help.


Imo titans were never meant to be used solo. You deserve to die if you don't travel with friends.

What part of my post implied anything about traveling?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#296 - 2014-09-19 22:11:35 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
The biggest issue I have with this is that the exclusion zone prevents cynos from being lit at all, instead of just allowing it but placing incoming ships 25+km. Titans dying without being able to bring in backup after being bumped out is less content generation than a titan being bumped out and bringing a fleet in to help.


Imo titans were never meant to be used solo. You deserve to die if you don't travel with friends.

titans were designed with the idea they were so expensive only a handful would ever exist (lawl)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#297 - 2014-09-19 23:12:56 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
The biggest issue I have with this is that the exclusion zone prevents cynos from being lit at all, instead of just allowing it but placing incoming ships 25+km. Titans dying without being able to bring in backup after being bumped out is less content generation than a titan being bumped out and bringing a fleet in to help.


Imo titans were never meant to be used solo. You deserve to die if you don't travel with friends.

titans were designed with the idea they were so expensive only a handful would ever exist (lawl)

I know right I still have my eve mag issue 6 that says this. Too bad poor game design like drone regions and jb and jf made construction a joke.

Death to all supercaps right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#298 - 2014-09-19 23:55:48 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#299 - 2014-09-20 00:49:29 UTC
Oh Fozzie I know this has been asked many times in this thread but it bears repeating until you acknowledge it:

Are you going to leave null corps with hundreds of jump bridge bookmarks that need to be updated, or do you have some method of updating these automatically?

Actually come to think of it, why are you moving the minimum distances for jump bridges and cyno gens anyway? Obviously the change to cynos lit from ships is intended to prevent the bumping exploit (which is imo a really crude and hacky way of dealing with the problem) but it's not like alliances are going to do this on their own towers. You never gave any justification for this particular change, which I think is unfair considering you're most likely asking us to deal with hundreds of bookmarks that are suddenly inaccurate.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#300 - 2014-09-20 12:44:55 UTC
"Oh noez! Hundreds of bookmarks!"
Lol, that's about the number of bookmarks an active wh corp makes every single day.

Bookmarks can be copied, so you only need to send one of your pets to do it.