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[Oceanus] Cyno Displacement Zone around starbases

First post First post
Author
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#141 - 2014-09-18 10:41:17 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
RoCkEt X wrote:
RIP bumping stuff off the edge of a forcefield... ever again.



Which is good, right? Cause it's an exploit, right?


Hint, ther was stuff legitimatly outside of the forcefield that you used to be able to bump away by jumping in caps, or block from getting int he forcefield by jumping in caps, now a cap/super/titan within 25k of the forcefield, but not inside can not be somewhat predictably bumped by a gank cap fleet jump in. Instead of a mechanic that increases legitimate cap kills we are creating a mechanic that actually makes cap kills a bit harder, not to mention that coupled with a mobile cyno inhibitor dreads will be awefull hard to drop on that are on a forcefield edge, let alone carriers repping it.

poorly thought out change, to fix 1 problem you have created 15 more, let alone unintended consequences, not to mention you are rush deploying this change not leaving much time for community input and tweaking.

Two easier thoughts come to mind- While not optimal, make the titans sphere smaller, makes it harder to jump in on shield edge with a blob and successfully bump, not to mention it would force bridging titans to inch out of the forcefield a bit more. bumping them would be a bit harder but none more so than say a supercarrier, and easier than than that still. this at least has fewer unintended consequences.
and/or
second, have the bridge increase the titans mass like happens with a sieged dread, they become much more difficult to bump with a conventional ship then - though this would introduce some other unintended consequences, though fewer than your current proposed change.

TBH, the issue i have with this change in particular, was instead of asking the community and saying hey we have the issue, we cant easily code in the optimal fix for the problem, but here are some ideas, or do you have ideas on how to fix said problem, you just said oh here were making this really hamfisted change, discuss. This just reminds me of the original frieghtor rigging thread debacle. There were much better ways to go about this.

Just my thoughts, dont expect anyone to agree.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2014-09-18 10:45:49 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.

Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?

edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling).



Learn to read. It said it would spawn you outside the range. So you can cyno on top of your poor Titan, but you may just land 25km from it

--------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------

Arkon Olacar
black.listed
Pandemic Legion
#143 - 2014-09-18 11:19:21 UTC
This is not the change to 'fix' the titan bowling 'exploit'. Back to the drawing board please Fozzie, you've created far more problems than you've sold.
Anthar Thebess
#144 - 2014-09-18 11:22:05 UTC
Eve will be better after this change than before.

DD from titan will hit target even if you jump those 25km more.
Webs from recon will still web capital sitting near pos shields.
You want to catch capital fleet near pos - drop 1 carrier carrying hictor , or just bridge some dictors.

Eleanor Wish
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2014-09-18 12:02:48 UTC
Good change, but admit it Fozzie, you're primary reason for doing this was to troll the bookmark managers rather than fix bumping....you evil genius you
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#146 - 2014-09-18 12:17:48 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.

Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?

edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling).



Learn to read. It said it would spawn you outside the range. So you can cyno on top of your poor Titan, but you may just land 25km from it

i suggest next time you attempt to seem smart you actually do the reading and don't ever try to correct me again you idiot:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
After this change, cynos will not be lightable within 25km of the forcefield edge. If for any reason a cyno is active within 25km of a forcefield (if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno).

Kyria Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#147 - 2014-09-18 12:18:19 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.

Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?

edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling).


+1
Worrff
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2014-09-18 12:19:15 UTC
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.

Oh wait.........

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#149 - 2014-09-18 12:25:57 UTC
Worrff wrote:
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.

Oh wait.........

You mean while he would be asleep?
Worrff
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2014-09-18 12:33:29 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Worrff wrote:
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.

Oh wait.........

You mean while he would be asleep?


He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that.

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#151 - 2014-09-18 12:42:38 UTC
Worrff wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Worrff wrote:
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.

Oh wait.........

You mean while he would be asleep?


He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that.


It's only 12:42 PM. Learn 2 clock.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#152 - 2014-09-18 12:43:16 UTC
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Belligerent Undesirable
#153 - 2014-09-18 12:49:45 UTC
Wow satisfactory

That sure does mean a lot

Yep
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#154 - 2014-09-18 12:49:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.

Now, do the same for Titan Bridging...

You know you want too...

It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut!

...

Anthar Thebess
#155 - 2014-09-18 13:05:20 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.

Now, do the same for Titan Bridging...

You know you want too...

It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut!



Don't forget about capital jump range.
Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates.
Every one wins!
Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#156 - 2014-09-18 13:06:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Worrff wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Worrff wrote:
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.

Oh wait.........

You mean while he would be asleep?


He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that.


It's only 12:42 PM. Learn 2 clock.


I hear being snarky to your customers is all the rage these days
Jassmin Joy
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#157 - 2014-09-18 13:10:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.


Translation:

We spoke about some stuff, spoke about this stuff too, liked what we spoke about.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#158 - 2014-09-18 13:13:31 UTC
With the death of the new cyno bumping mechanics, can we now at least make it so that you cannot bridge from the safety of a pos? Bridging is extremely powerful and largely risk free if done from the safety of a pos with the exception of spias and awoking which the pos doesnt protect against anyways. If folk want to bridge, they should have to at least put the bridging ship at some risk - after all eve's mantra is risk v. reward.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#159 - 2014-09-18 13:15:08 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.

Now, do the same for Titan Bridging...

You know you want too...

It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut!



Don't forget about capital jump range.
Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates.
Every one wins!
Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good.

Actually, ranges are fine!

Move the Titans outside POSs for bridging!

I'm more then willing to bet every Nullsec CSM will foam at the mouth at the thought of it!

...

vikari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#160 - 2014-09-18 13:23:42 UTC
Fozzie, a few issues this causes that should be considered.


Impact to BMs - minor as it might be in the grand scheme of things, we really don't want to remake a hundred plus BMs if we can help it.

POS attacking with Dreads - the use of short range guns just became less viable, unless you want to slowboat the distance required to get into or at least close to optimal.

Offensive risk management of subcaps - If you are in a subcap fleet it just became safe to attack a POS while hugging the shields, current mechanics let us drop a cyno on a hostile fleet and immediately bubble them, this change would grealy reduce our ability to get bubbles on a fleet before they can at least partially run away.

Risk/Benefit of cyno beacons - you're greatly changing this ratio. This might be a good idea, but could lead to them being less likely to be used in favor of simply station cyno characters, and that would result in actually less conflict over all, as the risk would be lower then it is even now with cyno beacons.



I understand the problem, but isn't this fix impacting a lot of things so solve one issue? It seems the goal here should be to solve the problem with as minimal impact to other parts of game play as possible.