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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Random WHs and the New Small Ship WHs

First post
Author
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#361 - 2014-08-27 21:38:13 UTC
Crazy environment to try and work in now. Might as well just add local in and make it nullsec.

The frig holes: Absolutely mental design. You now have a hole that can connect to someone else, that is almost certain to stop up 16 hours.

You find someone and attack - they fight back. People die. This happens a few times....then what? 16 hours to wait until the refresh? Both sides are just annoyed because they want a new connection. Fighting the same people again and again is boring.

You have people in drone boat BS sitting the one side with light drones out, and frigs only incoming - fuuuunnnnnn :\

These holes should be very small time wise - an hour or two at most, then it changes. 16 Hours is madness. It's just so boring.....
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#362 - 2014-08-27 21:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Luft Reich
Posting for relevance. Enjoy the novel! I'm sorry you have to scroll down to find the really long post made by yours truly.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post

Admiral Synergy
Awakened Ones
#363 - 2014-08-27 21:58:22 UTC
Luft Reich wrote:
Posting for relevance. Enjoy the novel! I'm sorry you have to scroll down to find the really long post made by yours truly.


Very well stated, and I entirely agree.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#364 - 2014-08-27 22:43:36 UTC
frig holes are overvaluated. their lifetime should be max 8 hours if not 6 or 5 hours.
there should be developped also cruiser and battlecruiser holes to balance this , now is huge mess and chaos.
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2014-08-27 23:07:56 UTC
Amak Boma wrote:
frig holes are overvaluated. their lifetime should be max 8 hours if not 6 or 5 hours.
there should be developped also cruiser and battlecruiser holes to balance this , now is huge mess and chaos.

There are plenty of holes able to fit cruisers and battlecruisers already. And frigs. Some even fit battleships and Orcas. A few can even fit a capital!

As to the plethora of new, nearly useless wormholes, CCP please repeal this change. I went into a C1 today and scanned. C5 with a C6 static connected into it with one of these. Was it occupied? Nope, one dead stick, and 9 POCOs, both belonging to different corporations. See, those C5 guys read the writing on the wall and left. Might have been recently, might have been a month ago, but they are gone. I was unsurprised to see 9 sigs in that system. More than half were holes to nowhere a frig is of any use. Good call on this new troll holes!
Ren Kavik
Freyja Syndicate
The Bastion
#366 - 2014-08-27 23:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ren Kavik
Terrorfrodo wrote:
I assume the large number of these holes is intended to kill the old way of thinking in w-space, where you almost always knew exactly where the intruder came from if you spotted a ship on d-scan. Now you may wonder if that cov ops came through the frig hole and is most likely just a minor threat, or if he came from one of your other four holes and is possibly the tackler for a strong fleet.

Also, with so many holes, the old habit of just not doing anything whenever you have an open hole in your system that you cannot close, must end; either you move out or you do stuff with holes open.


For those with limited understanding of player behavior here's an explanation of why increasing risk without extra reward is negative for both hunters and hunted.

Right now for the lower class WH the risk vs reward is as follows.

REWARD (50mill per site on average)
VS
RISK (250mill required ships vs chance of getting cought 1/?)

Before hyperion id say 1/10 chance of getting killed(including roling wh). Which meant income was similar to highsec but leaned heavily on a luck factor. My corp has been in the WHS for years now so this is an accurate estimate.

After hyperion id say the chance of getting killed 1/2 or 1/3 so you make 100 mill/150mill for every 250 mill you pour into to this isk sinkhole.

Granted i cant accurately prove what the increased risk is yet.
But based on the fact that you cant role the whs with a small corp in a lower clas wormhole i can make a good estimate.
Because if we didnt close the whs while running sites the chance of getting killed whent up by 500%.

Im pretty sure CCP doesnt want to role back the changes so i suggest improving revenue in the lower class wh's and decreasing other risks.

Here are some suggestions

1
All sites have to be scanned down in LOWER class wh's. - RISK
(this should dial back the pray has to fall into my lap mentality of pvpers that like to shoot things that dont shoot back)

2
Make the PI command centers in the WH more efficient and have larger capacity. + REWARD
This benifits lower class wormholes because these are connected to empire space.
The increased efficiency will generate more isk per click(matches nicely with crius).
This should make the PI people flok into the wh's and give the hunters some extra targets.

3
Create a special burner mission anomoly for LOWER class wh's

4
Be creative ;)

For more emergence the accessibility of LOWER class wh's didnt need to be fixed .
Higher rewards generates more competition which in turn generates more emergence.

The reward system in wh's is simply broken.
The C5 & C6 are making tens billions a day and the lower class whs have a hard time making a billion a week.
For a corps with 10 members thats just terrible.
You might aswell mine veldspar in a venture all week long.
krazyskillz
If we die it's lag
#367 - 2014-08-28 02:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: krazyskillz
Holy crap! You guys ever see the Captain America movies where Hydra always says something like "cut off one head, two grow in it's place". That's seriously what I feel like when closing a WH. You close one, two open.

On a side note, I wonder how much money CCP anticipated on making when people have to start paying for the game and can no longer plex because they deem it to high risk.
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#368 - 2014-08-28 07:15:31 UTC
guys, c5/6 space seems to be far less infected by this. Still farm haven Lol
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#369 - 2014-08-28 09:42:55 UTC
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2014-08-28 09:48:02 UTC
krazyskillz wrote:
On a side note, I wonder how much money CCP anticipated on making when people have to start paying for the game and can no longer plex because they deem it to high risk.

Are you under the impression that people who PLEX are costing CCP subscription money?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Winthorp
#371 - 2014-08-28 10:12:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


Can you confirm if they were auto spawned as of patch DT reset?
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#372 - 2014-08-28 10:18:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.



PLEASE reduce also other wormhole spawn rate too. because living in wormhole is now lottery , if you manage eoungh assault frigs you can easily take out POS . keep the random wh spawn and frig spawn low for lower class wormholes , higher wormhole class higher spawn rate , if settings for spawn are global for all wormholes , keep them at minimum then
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-08-28 11:22:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
krazyskillz wrote:
On a side note, I wonder how much money CCP anticipated on making when people have to start paying for the game and can no longer plex because they deem it to high risk.

Are you under the impression that people who PLEX are costing CCP subscription money?


Are you under impresion they are not?
Adrie Atticus
Circle Mercs
#374 - 2014-08-28 12:46:03 UTC
Amak Boma wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
As part of the ongoing followup to Hyperion we're going to be reducing the spawn rate of the WSpace-WSpace small ship wormholes at today's downtime. Note that existing connections will still be active for their lifetime so it will take a day or so before things level out at the new normal.

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.



PLEASE reduce also other wormhole spawn rate too. because living in wormhole is now lottery , if you manage eoungh assault frigs you can easily take out POS . keep the random wh spawn and frig spawn low for lower class wormholes , higher wormhole class higher spawn rate , if settings for spawn are global for all wormholes , keep them at minimum then


So POS's and POS structures in WH's should be untouchable?
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2014-08-28 14:37:07 UTC
I still think there should be no frig holes between w-space systems, it makes no sense due to frigates being largely ineffective at pvp in w-space. if you are lucky you could maybe torp a ratter, but the odds are the sleepers will kill u first.

if you lose a pos to assault frigates, then i seriously suggest you put more guns up lol.
Snoop Dong
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#376 - 2014-08-28 15:17:45 UTC
I am from a small WH corp with not many active players, the increase in random connections is really killing our interest in WH Life.

1) We have so many random connections that it can take 2+ hrs to scan out a chain, not a problem for a bigger corp with multiple scanners but an issue for corps with only 1 scanner at a time. Scanning the chain has changed from the excitement of possible content to an endless chore.

2) More connections for blobbers to blob through. Again not an issue for larger corps but smaller ones are defenceless against these roaming t3 blobs. They can just waltz in through their new random connection and kill any hope of content for the day.

3) Frigate holes also favour the blobber. Regenerating mass means that they can put through as many ships as they like with no fear of being rolled out.

You have stated that your intention for Hyperion was to;

- Create some variety and excitement in wormhole mechanics since most haven’t changed in many years.

- Provide ways for players to engage more fully with the random and mysterious elements of wormhole life and a ease back on attempts to ‘tame’ and control wormhole mechanics.

However instead you have;

- Taken out the excitement and suspense in new connections and WH life in general.

- Provided greater blobbing opportunities for larger groups who still have control over their connections.

WH space used to be something that groups of all size could live in and enjoy, now it seems that only the larger groups can have the fun. It's a real shame what the Hyperion update has done to WHs as they were the only part of EVE I really enjoyed.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#377 - 2014-08-28 15:26:37 UTC
CCP troll level for w space? 10/10. I'll admit that I bit.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#378 - 2014-08-28 15:45:52 UTC
yep and wonder when ccp introduce stations and stargates for wormholes. i dont like the idea , wormholes have to be random they cannot be excepted .
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#379 - 2014-08-28 15:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
CCP troll level for w space? 10/10. I'll admit that I bit.


While you might very well think that, it is more likely that they really did not understand the consequences of their action, and as we are normally not overly vocal,so they thought that they probably knew what was best for us.

We are not normally complaining as wormhole space actually worked well, and our only complaints were the old changes related to making things anomolies, and could we have the value of low class wormholes looked at please?

They thougt somehow that we actually only wanted "excitement" and because we have worked out how to manage the ridiculously high levels of risk and danger, and did not complain, that we needed more risk.

How wrong can one possibly be?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Enthropic
Perkone
Caldari State
#380 - 2014-08-28 16:40:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Keep the feedback coming our way. Thanks.


uhm, I just noticed , there is a little feedback over here also.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=364402&p=89

just in case Falcon did not point you to it yet.. :)