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Dev blog: Size Matters: Introducing Burner Missions

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Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#301 - 2014-08-15 20:59:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s

These missions should not be in highsec. Level 4 missions do not need any buff in profitability.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

Really? You're comfortable with level 4 blitz income, so you're adding more on top of that? Are you really sure you want to go this route?



seams to me that you quoted the answer to your question.

-
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#302 - 2014-08-15 21:00:31 UTC
When can we expect these missions on sisi ?
Like in 3 days or so ?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#303 - 2014-08-15 21:10:33 UTC
Fozzie,

I thought about this overnight. Im still a huge fan of this type of mission.

Will these burners have one set "fit" per ship? Will they have only 1 set of tactics?

My only concern is that within a week of release, there will be a damn mission report out on these missions that will tell you exactly what to fit and exactly how to fight each one.

Id like to see some dynamic content instituted on these. Have like 5 or more different possible fits for each burner. with surprises thrown in that you don't expect. Have their tactics change based on the tactic being used against them. Maybe someone is getting under their guns, so the burner overheats the MWD and burns away in order to get your transversal down, etc.

Id hate to see something like this end up as a boring "Oh.. its the serp burner mission.. ok, standard serp burner fit 1, mwd in , scram and web, orbit at 500, collect faction web that dropped, profit, rinse , repeat next time."

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#304 - 2014-08-15 21:21:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I completely understand why people would want to have these missions accessible from their own dedicated agents, and that is definitely something we'd like to do with similar missions in the future. However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s and because there's only going to be five of them in this initial deployment, they aren't really suitable to stand on their own right now.
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

I can definitely see the concern over the better than normal rewards. Given that I think these should really be some sort of special mission rather than lumped in.

At some point you need to make versions of these burner missions that only have foes using T1/2 meta fits, so there arean't any expensive drops, and lower the LP rewards a bit. Then you could have agents who specifically give out frigate missions. At that point, these high risk high reward burner missions could be slotted in as the storyline missions you get from a faction agent after doing a number of regular missions for a corp agent. That would fit them in nicely with how missions are now: a bunch of missions interspersed with ones that give a bit higher rewards, and would allow players to actually choose to fly missions for a specific class rather than having to have big ships to grind the opportunity to use their small ships.
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#305 - 2014-08-15 21:26:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


So the upshot for these NPCs is that they will act in a similar manner to some of the other recently added NPCs like the Mordu's Legion asteroid belt patrols in lowsec. The only completely new functionality they will enjoy is that the Burners who use warp scramblers will shut off player MWDs in the same way that player scrams do. These NPCs will not run out of cap, or warp away. Those kinds of improvements are definitely on our medium to long term roadmap, and when we do have them ready to go the burner missions will provide excellent places testing the new capabilities.


I would personally love it if they warped away unless pointed, as the extra mid-slot plus the lack of a need to keep the target in point range essentially removes two of the hardest aspects of frigate PVP and makes these missions significantly easier. I hope future iterations add such difficulty elements.

Omg though, I can't wait to log into my alts in NPC corps and see the loss mails followed by the torrent of forum posts about people complaining they are dying to these rats. Cannot. Wait. <3
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#306 - 2014-08-15 21:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Well, I've resubbed this alt mostly to talk about those missions. Now, there's only one thing that seriosuly makes me uncomfortable, and it would be very kind if you just cleared it....

Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.


Oh don't worry mate, we will still find a way to blow you and other high sec missioners up while doing these missions. Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile



Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#307 - 2014-08-15 21:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
you had me at
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Oh don't worry mate, we will still find a way to blow you

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mark Prag
American Policy Institute.
#308 - 2014-08-15 21:32:59 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Trevor Eve wrote:

Yup, adding them to the general level 4 is absolutely the only way they could limit farming.

No possible way they could have done it without forcing people to do battleship missions too.



You do not need to do the "battleship missions for these", hell you do not even need to own the BS to do these. Frigates are pretty damn fast after the warp speed changes so moving around until you get one of these is quite viable. Now if you want to drag whole supply train with you then that can be a bit trickier but nanoed up T3 booster can be still made to sort of not fall too far behind a frigate over the short distances.


Sure battleships give you great EHP doing level fours, but honestly, why use that when one can just as easily use a well skilled setup, fit, and implants for a T3 cruiser or Battlecruiser? If one wants to be lazy, keep on using battleships.... I prefer to blitz my garden variety missions in as small a ship as possible to earn as much in as little of time as possible...

In regards to the Burner aspect, this will change the rhythm of mission running as a whole, and as I've said before, I'll be looking forward to what other PvE content CCP releases within the next year.

Mark Prag
'If the Devil is in the Details, success is in the system.' - J.W. Marriott
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#309 - 2014-08-15 21:55:25 UTC
Firstly, this sounds like a really cool and interesting idea. I actually look forward to giving this a go! :)

Be interesting to see some variation thrown in there to make it a continued challenge after the first time you beat it.

For example you could mix up the fits slightly, perhaps add a neut here or a TD there randomly - make the player encounter something unexpected.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Irya Boone
The Scope
#310 - 2014-08-15 22:00:34 UTC
it's good start , but now it would be nice to add the same thing but with cruiser/BC/BS and make it fun

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#311 - 2014-08-15 23:09:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thank you very much for the enthusiastic responses in this thread!

It's always a good feeling as a designer when the most common feedback from the community is "sounds good but you should make more of it" and "sounds good but you should let people get to it more easily".

I completely understand why people would want to have these missions accessible from their own dedicated agents, and that is definitely something we'd like to do with similar missions in the future. However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s and because there's only going to be five of them in this initial deployment, they aren't really suitable to stand on their own right now.
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

It's possible that we could attach some of these sorts of missions to a similar system as the pirate faction epic arcs (which also represent some very engaging small ship PVE content) in addition to their presence in the general level 4 mission pool. That kind of addition would not come until after Hyperion however.

I'm also seeing a lot of excellent questions about the capabilities of these NPCs. I want to be clear that these NPCs are evolutionary steps from previous NPCs, not revolutionary.
We have a team dedicated to improving our PVE content authoring tools, which will bear fruit for NPCs and AI in the future. In the meantime however, we are also continuing to improve our content with the tools available to us now. That's why the Hyperion release is featuring these new missions as well as the set of Incursion improvements that CCP Foxfour describes in this thread.

So the upshot for these NPCs is that they will act in a similar manner to some of the other recently added NPCs like the Mordu's Legion asteroid belt patrols in lowsec. The only completely new functionality they will enjoy is that the Burners who use warp scramblers will shut off player MWDs in the same way that player scrams do. These NPCs will not run out of cap, or warp away. Those kinds of improvements are definitely on our medium to long term roadmap, and when we do have them ready to go the burner missions will provide excellent places testing the new capabilities.



https://i.imgur.com/dJgInKu.jpg
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#312 - 2014-08-15 23:43:42 UTC
I'm very happy with the concept of Burner missions, as it bridges gap between PvE and PvP.

However I can't see myself doing them, since that would require me to run 'regular' level 4 mission in order to have a chance for a Burner one.

I would VERY much welcome similar cooldown mechanic to epic mission arcs (that would allow me to enjoy Burner missions without the grind of lvl 4s).

Or an alternative could be a purchasable one-use 'ticket' (a chip, crystal, you name it) that would let me run a Burner mission rightaway. This token could be a drop for example. This idea has been inspired by Path of Exile endgame map concept.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#313 - 2014-08-16 00:04:55 UTC
you don't have to run regular level 4 missions. faction standings, the ones you get for running missions in FW... they unlock security agents (and all agents) in an empire. it's not just mission runners who will have access to burners. faction standings are the best standings to have in this case. I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're trying to persuade player opinion.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#314 - 2014-08-16 00:33:25 UTC
This is all fine and good, but what about ship classes other than frigates, you know… CRUISERS, BATTLESHIPS - the kind of ships the vast majority are using for L4s...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2014-08-16 00:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
CCP Phantom wrote:

(message truncated.... said a bunch of awesome stuff)



If the sec bumps for killing these things are good enough, is it too much to ask for having a way to request only Burner missions, specifically?

Cuz, if I'd be getting a sec bump that is about equal to the sec loss I'd get for shooting another player, this might become my preferred method for controlling my sec rating, and possibly the only missions I'm interested in doing.

(Note: yes, I read the part where it said "not too farmable".... but, I've been extra-good, this year.... I can count the number of times in the last 7 months I've flamed someone on the forums, on one hand... do Gara a solid, here?)

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#316 - 2014-08-16 00:38:57 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
you don't have to run regular level 4 missions. faction standings, the ones you get for running missions in FW... they unlock security agents (and all agents) in an empire. it's not just mission runners who will have access to burners. faction standings are the best standings to have in this case. I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're trying to persuade player opinion.




'The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable.'

This is what I was referring to. That you need to run 'normal' lvl4s in order to receive a Burner mission. There was no ill intent behind my previous post.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#317 - 2014-08-16 01:24:46 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s

These missions should not be in highsec. Level 4 missions do not need any buff in profitability.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

Really? You're comfortable with level 4 blitz income, so you're adding more on top of that? Are you really sure you want to go this route?



seams to me that you quoted the answer to your question.

-

I realize that. It's not an answer that satisfies me.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#318 - 2014-08-16 01:45:27 UTC
Sheeana Harb wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
you don't have to run regular level 4 missions. faction standings, the ones you get for running missions in FW... they unlock security agents (and all agents) in an empire. it's not just mission runners who will have access to burners. faction standings are the best standings to have in this case. I'm not sure if you don't know that or if you're trying to persuade player opinion.




'The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable.'

This is what I was referring to. That you need to run 'normal' lvl4s in order to receive a Burner mission. There was no ill intent behind my previous post.




Just cycle though different agents no need to do any missions
Vartan Sarkisian
Phoenix Connection
Lack of Judgement.
#319 - 2014-08-16 03:41:28 UTC
Will any kind of special loot potentially drop from these missions?
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#320 - 2014-08-16 05:08:47 UTC
Mark Prag wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Trevor Eve wrote:

Yup, adding them to the general level 4 is absolutely the only way they could limit farming.

No possible way they could have done it without forcing people to do battleship missions too.



You do not need to do the "battleship missions for these", hell you do not even need to own the BS to do these. Frigates are pretty damn fast after the warp speed changes so moving around until you get one of these is quite viable. Now if you want to drag whole supply train with you then that can be a bit trickier but nanoed up T3 booster can be still made to sort of not fall too far behind a frigate over the short distances.


Sure battleships give you great EHP doing level fours, but honestly, why use that when one can just as easily use a well skilled setup, fit, and implants for a T3 cruiser or Battlecruiser? If one wants to be lazy, keep on using battleships.... I prefer to blitz my garden variety missions in as small a ship as possible to earn as much in as little of time as possible...

In regards to the Burner aspect, this will change the rhythm of mission running as a whole, and as I've said before, I'll be looking forward to what other PvE content CCP releases within the next year.

Mark Prag
'If the Devil is in the Details, success is in the system.' - J.W. Marriott

Battleships are used for majority of Lev 4 missions currently because they do them the fastest on average. They are the "to earn as much as little of time as possible...". That out of the way there is a number of Lev 4 missions that are better done in something smaller. So some people just pick the best tool for the job to the point of having different pirate BS's fitted and ready to go in their missionrunning station of choice for the 1-2 minute difference they make against a more general purpose hull/fit. Say, for example, having both Nightmare and Marachiel and using Nightmare against EM weak missions. Sure you can lose a bit effectivity for particular hull because hulls benefiting from different hardwires but at the end of a gaming session you might have done few more missions than the guy with just a single ship.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.