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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

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Author
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#801 - 2014-08-01 15:53:03 UTC
You people argue on the wrong question.
Sentries are OP, and it's by design.
Also, by design they have enormous drawbacks, which dont work though.
Now would you please stop spamming those innumerable comparisons.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#802 - 2014-08-01 16:39:58 UTC
I guess all my high quality posting has made rise abandon this thread.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#803 - 2014-08-01 16:59:00 UTC
afkalt wrote:
30kms is hardly "long range".

Point is the "short range" sentries cant match tracking on guns of that size.


Irrespective, it's off on a tangent - how do we fix the ishtar? Without buggering loads of other stuff at the same time.



hardly long range? That is about the range of a 1200mm...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#804 - 2014-08-01 17:01:00 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
You people argue on the wrong question.
Sentries are OP, and it's by design.
Also, by design they have enormous drawbacks, which dont work though.
Now would you please stop spamming those innumerable comparisons.



That is the whole point why I say that they should have their track HALVED, so that they at least do nto have that advantage over the turrets.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Micky Nox
PoIite Fish
#805 - 2014-08-01 17:07:59 UTC
[quote=CCP Rise]
Ishtar:
Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level
Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
Quote:


[quote]
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?


Really think that large autoz need some range buff, because megathron with null will do more damage and have better range/tracking comparing to tempest.

Also would love to see Hail L ammo buffed a bit, so arty setups will have slightly better DPS when they switch to close range ammo. Just EFT arty fleet tempest and compare it to navy geddon with scorch/conflag).

P.S. please leave that mid slot for people who prefer nano tempest.

Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#806 - 2014-08-01 17:30:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
afkalt wrote:
30kms is hardly "long range".

Point is the "short range" sentries cant match tracking on guns of that size.


Irrespective, it's off on a tangent - how do we fix the ishtar? Without buggering loads of other stuff at the same time.



hardly long range? That is about the range of a 1200mm...


Or a megapulse with better tracking.
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#807 - 2014-08-01 17:52:59 UTC
One thing questionable is why the Ishtar relishes with so much agility than the rest of the Heavy HACs, you have the ishtar sitting at a 5.3s align time with max skills while the other sit at 6.4s. That is almost a full nanofibers worth of agility given free, and more significantly agile than the Vexor, a more deserving nerf would be to increase their mass so it has the time to align about 5.9.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#808 - 2014-08-01 17:59:23 UTC
With tempest, i say no to the suggested slot change. Will make active tank fits even harder to use due loss for second cap booster. If anything id be interested in more mids, less lows. Make it more shield orientated, leave TFI armor with 5 mids. Also like mentioned already, consider tracking bonus in place of damage. Could make an interesting artillery platform or nanopest with acs.

I really dont give a **** about ishtards.. my vaga will kill the nano kiters pretty easily. A nerf is needed yes.. but how bout we focus on muninn and eagle.

Minmatar need a good artillery platform that is actually usable. Other than gank nados. The only artillery platform ive had luck with is loki. but id like something that doesnt penalize me when it dies. Arty is actually decent counter to ishtar. I fought some in my arty loki and did really well. We just need a ship that isnt a steaming pile of turds like the muninn.

As an example, fitting 720s and a mwd to the muninn uses at least 3/4 of the PG. So.. you cant even fit arty to an arty boat in any practical situation unless you go full ****** with rigs/rcu. Then with 650s the dps is so poor there really isnt a reason to use them.

Buff PG on muninn, add a mid, up its speed (again), and that is a step in the right direction at the munimum. id like to see it slower than vaga, but only by 200-300m/s, as a speedy arty platform could be fun. Though i suspect that could be OP.

Another option is to give the muninn 2 more mids, leave the bonuses as is. Since it doesnt get a tank bonus (shield boost or resist bonus). Drop 2 lows, keep utility high. That would give minny a 5 mid slot hac with t2 resists that benefit shield tanking. It would be like a shield sac.

Or

Make it a missile boat.. kinda iffy on that though. If you went that route, make it like a mini claymore. Double rof bonus? shield resist bonus and maybe velocity bonus to keep it long range.

To all the people moaning about sacs.. all the ones ive fought have had decent tanks and are a pain to kill. So not sure why u want more lows. If you get 6 lows in your t2 resist amarr hac, i want 5 mids on my vaga.
Xander Det89
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#809 - 2014-08-01 18:39:57 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
EDIT: After taking a look at things and thinking it over a bit, I'm going to amend my earlier statement and go all in for the tempest. It should get the same treatment and slot loadout as the hyperion, with dropping a high for a low, going for a 10% damage bonus and a 7.5% tracking speed bonus. Not only would this help a lot better with fitting space and slot layout by switching to 7/5/7, allowing it to keep a utility high would be most ideal for it since it would keep a utility high for a defensive neut/nos.

What are your thoughts on that setup, Rise?


It would also gain the niche of having the highest subcap alpha (excluding the Tribal Temp), although at the cost of having the lowest sustained dps of all the large artillery ships... guess it already has that, but slightly lower than it is now too. More than made up for by a tracking bonus if it got one I'd say though.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#810 - 2014-08-01 19:40:49 UTC
One size fits all should be addressed.

Armor tanking HAC shouldn't have an MWD sig rad bonus, they should have an AB speed bonus. They fight in close at web range and even with the 50% sig rad bonus they bloom to 500+ and die in a fire if they use MWD.

Any HAC that kites and ranges can adapt and GTFO but slow bulldog fights need different design.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#811 - 2014-08-01 19:42:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
You people argue on the wrong question.
Sentries are OP, and it's by design.
Also, by design they have enormous drawbacks, which dont work though.
Now would you please stop spamming those innumerable comparisons.



That is the whole point why I say that they should have their track HALVED, so that they at least do nto have that advantage over the turrets.


No!

Just add a line in the sentry attributes that states 'can only be used on Battleships, Blackops', there you go Ishtar fixed.

And after only 6 months I can introduce you to heavy drone kiting.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
#812 - 2014-08-01 20:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
THB i would prefer if the HAC bonuses were increased to make medium long ranged weapons as effective at range as sentries.

Edit: but as i said initially, the mechanics of sentries are the real issue IMO.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#813 - 2014-08-01 20:30:36 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
THB i would prefer if the HAC bonuses were increased to make medium long ranged weapons as effective at range as sentries.


do you know what 'power creep' is
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#814 - 2014-08-01 20:47:20 UTC
so some caldari navy ships have separate damage bonuses too the different types of damage

Osprey Navy Issue
10% kinetic light missiles, heavy missiles and HAMS
5% EM, explosive, thermal light missiles, heavy missiles and HAMS

just do the same with droneboats in general

VNI
10% damage and HP bonus too light, medium and heavy drones
5% damage too sentry drones

Vexor
10% damage and HP bonus too light, medium and heavy drones
5% damage too sentry drones

Ishtar
10% damage and HP bonus too light, medium and heavy drones
5% damage too sentry drones

point being that only battleships should be able too use sentry drones with the 10% bonus too damage since they are battleship drones primarily .. not cruiser hull drones..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
#815 - 2014-08-01 20:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
TrouserDeagle wrote:
do you know what 'power creep' is


Sure but does it really apply here? ...Granted medium weapons would be creeping up to the level of sentries. Blink
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#816 - 2014-08-01 21:44:43 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
do you know what 'power creep' is


Sure but does it really apply here? ...Granted medium weapons would be creeping up to the level of sentries. Blink


'surely you are joking' (yes pun, shocking I know) but I'll take my rail Eagle that pushes out 800dps at ludicrus range and ludicrus tracking erry day..

Wait, are we running in circles now??

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#817 - 2014-08-01 22:01:12 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
do you know what 'power creep' is


Sure but does it really apply here? ...Granted medium weapons would be creeping up to the level of sentries. Blink


'surely you are joking' (yes pun, shocking I know) but I'll take my rail Eagle that pushes out 800dps at ludicrus range and ludicrus tracking erry day..

Wait, are we running in circles now??


And we will always be, with arguments like "800 dps, ludicrous range and tracking".
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#818 - 2014-08-01 23:54:34 UTC
Vagabond

Give it some more cargo room. I'm being reasonable here. Nothing else. You guys give it an active tank bonus, and give it a small cargo hold. How am i suppose hold all mah cap boosters and ammo?!
LT Alter
Iron.Guard
Iron Armada
#819 - 2014-08-02 00:37:31 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:


Only problem I have with this is implications for carriers


What implication? Still limited to the number of drones, they can already their maximum. Lowering the bandwidth would have no effect on the amount they can launch. They can still only launch their limit on light drones, even though they only use 5 mb, why would heavies be any different?
LT Alter
Iron.Guard
Iron Armada
#820 - 2014-08-02 00:41:52 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Bandwidth of Ishtar and vexor navy to 100
Bandwidth of heavy drones to 20.

You've reduced Ishtar dps by 20 % with sentries but keep its dps with heavies
Still viable to use either heavies or sentries
Vexor, prophecy, myrmidon all get improved dps projection due to their drone change load out (vexor/prophecy are now 3/1/1 heavy/med/light. Myrmidon can flight full 5 heavies. Stratios has the option for full flight of heavies.

Proteus drone configuration now viable as it could now fly a full flight of heavies.

It is not a small change, but it is a thorough one.


Personally I really like this idea.