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[Crius] Consolidation feedback thread

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-07-17 22:21:07 UTC
What is a "Manufacturing (Nullsec conquerable)" and "Cloning (Nullsec conquerable)" station as referred to in the Appendix?

Also is there any love for NPC null sec stations to keep them competitive with high sec?

Final question, will stations stack with the POS to give the overall job cost reduction, or will POS's have their own modifiers independent of the systems facilities. It is still a little unclear on how POS's will work, and Singularity is down so cannot test anything.

And thanks, it is looking very good so far.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#22 - 2014-07-18 00:56:02 UTC
The UI thread has a couple good posts at the end that did not get replied to please reply to those issues thanks

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Lion El'Johnson
Fun Police
#23 - 2014-07-18 04:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lion El'Johnson
asteroidjas wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
Question : having a ME level 9 RORQUAL BPO which i indended to get to 10 : will i get less time for researching to 10 than someone who had the same BPO at level 5 before Crius hits?

no. it will be converted to the new system as it stands at the time of patch (unless it is in the oven, then it will be converted when it gets 'completed'

If your reasoning follows, i have plenty of bpo's i'd "intended" to get to 10, but that is irrelevant. Everyone had the same warning, and most of us started researching all our existing stocks to 10-10.



Well the intention is verifiable as this BPO has been in the oven continuously since bought except for a few hours when the research job was finished during my nighttime but that is irrelevant, as the point remains : i have spent 8 months more in research than someone who had brought his BPO to level 5, and those 8 more months SHOULD COUNT.

I could not help but notice that EVERY patch does something new by "leveling" advantages of players who have spent a lot of time to get them.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2014-07-18 06:18:37 UTC
Grenn Putubi wrote:
CCP Nullarbor mentioned in the Research thread that the patch notes were being compiled and would detail how ongoing research and production jobs were being handled during the conversion. Are we going to be getting that information before Monday? I find it rather inconsiderate to not be sharing that info with us since many of us are going to have jobs in progress and queued up for patch day and not telling us how that's going to be handled is leaving many of us unsure of whether we should be starting new jobs or not.


I am 100% certain that this was explained in the AYWTK Dev Blog yesterday, but it's removed now. Ugh
As far as I remember the blog, the blue prints continue their task with the post-Crius values until completion and are delivered to the station and converted as a one-time change to Crius values. The blog yesterday stated that, if you install a job remotely from a station hangar to a POS lab before Crius, the researched BPO will finish the research with Kronos-values and is upon delivery delivered to the station hangar it originated from.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#25 - 2014-07-18 06:27:23 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
What is a "Manufacturing (Nullsec conquerable)" and "Cloning (Nullsec conquerable)" station as referred to in the Appendix?


Cloning - Manufacturing - Refining

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2014-07-18 10:34:39 UTC
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:
Two things, I may have overlooked them but I don't believe so.

1.) What are research ranks for T2 (noncap) and T3 component blueprints? I didn't see them listed in the appendix. Last time I was on SiSi they were 1?


2.) Any confirmation on the conversion process for blueprints *currently in research* as Crius hits? We've been told where in-progress jobs will spit out, but I can see a handful of permutations as to how the actual conversion would work. I would hope that jobs will finish as installed, and then the resultant will be converted to Crius values? Secondarily, how till the Crius transition treat jobs that are in queue at patch time?


For the sheet I've designated "parts":
- Most are 1
- RDBs 10
- RAMs 20
- Cap components 60
- T2 cap components 4
- Data interfaces 30
- Station components 200
- Fuel blocks 3

The DB guy who wrote the conversion says we convert all in-progress blueprints to the new system while they're in the job, and then the job finishes at its previously-defined time and adds its previously-defined number of levels to research.


Medalyn Isis wrote:
What is a "Manufacturing (Nullsec conquerable)" and "Cloning (Nullsec conquerable)" station as referred to in the Appendix?

Also is there any love for NPC null sec stations to keep them competitive with high sec?

Final question, will stations stack with the POS to give the overall job cost reduction, or will POS's have their own modifiers independent of the systems facilities. It is still a little unclear on how POS's will work, and Singularity is down so cannot test anything.

And thanks, it is looking very good so far.


- What Rivr said
- Nothing explicit right now, but I'd expect them to have generally fairly low cost indexes.
- Station multipliers should apply to the whole system; I believe outpost upgrades only apply in the outpost
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#27 - 2014-07-18 11:09:06 UTC
Grenn Putubi wrote:
CCP Nullarbor mentioned in the Research thread that the patch notes were being compiled and would detail how ongoing research and production jobs were being handled during the conversion. Are we going to be getting that information before Monday? I find it rather inconsiderate to not be sharing that info with us since many of us are going to have jobs in progress and queued up for patch day and not telling us how that's going to be handled is leaving many of us unsure of whether we should be starting new jobs or not.


The patch notes will be available today. So yes you will have all the information before the weekend. Just ironing out some last minute details.

Salpun wrote:
The UI thread has a couple good posts at the end that did not get replied to please reply to those issues thanks


Yep we kept an eye on those up to the last reply. We put as many things in the release as possible but some things will have to wait for further patches or releases. Singularity will "should" be available in a few hours so you can have a look at the state of things.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
Lion El'Johnson
Fun Police
#28 - 2014-07-18 15:29:25 UTC
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
Question : having a ME level 9 RORQUAL BPO which i indended to get to 10 : will i get less time for researching to 10 than someone who had the same BPO at level 5 before Crius hits?

no. it will be converted to the new system as it stands at the time of patch (unless it is in the oven, then it will be converted when it gets 'completed'

If your reasoning follows, i have plenty of bpo's i'd "intended" to get to 10, but that is irrelevant. Everyone had the same warning, and most of us started researching all our existing stocks to 10-10.



Well the intention is verifiable as this BPO has been in the oven continuously since bought except for a few hours when the research job was finished during my nighttime but that is irrelevant, as the point remains : i have spent 8 months more in research than someone who had brought his BPO to level 5, and those 8 more months SHOULD COUNT.

I could not help but notice that EVERY patch does something new by "leveling" advantages of players who have spent a lot of time to get them.




DEV pls answer this one too as i would like to know WHY do i have to lose 8 months of research ? As opposed to some people who get reimbursed or get bonuses for training for 14 days a skill that is becoming absolete ( and, more importantly, GET their concerns answered by devs in forums ) ?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2014-07-18 15:37:52 UTC
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
asteroidjas wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
Question : having a ME level 9 RORQUAL BPO which i indended to get to 10 : will i get less time for researching to 10 than someone who had the same BPO at level 5 before Crius hits?

no. it will be converted to the new system as it stands at the time of patch (unless it is in the oven, then it will be converted when it gets 'completed'

If your reasoning follows, i have plenty of bpo's i'd "intended" to get to 10, but that is irrelevant. Everyone had the same warning, and most of us started researching all our existing stocks to 10-10.



Well the intention is verifiable as this BPO has been in the oven continuously since bought except for a few hours when the research job was finished during my nighttime but that is irrelevant, as the point remains : i have spent 8 months more in research than someone who had brought his BPO to level 5, and those 8 more months SHOULD COUNT.

I could not help but notice that EVERY patch does something new by "leveling" advantages of players who have spent a lot of time to get them.




DEV pls answer this one too as i would like to know WHY do i have to lose 8 months of research ? As opposed to some people who get reimbursed or get bonuses for training for 14 days a skill that is becoming absolete ( and, more importantly, GET their concerns answered by devs in forums ) ?


You're not losing anything, but other people are catching up faster. There are a number of ways to transition to the new system, and the one we're using is the one we judge to be the least painful for the most players.

All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#30 - 2014-07-18 16:17:43 UTC
Patch notes are now live, this should answer any remaining questions and Singularity should be open very soon:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-crius/

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
Lion El'Johnson
Fun Police
#31 - 2014-07-18 16:51:21 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.


My blueprint is coming out of the oven at level 9 AFTER the crius release. And i will have the same time to get it to 10 as any of the people that had it at level 5. Bottom line, i lose 8 months of research that i have invested in order to have a BETTER BPO. Why ?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2014-07-18 16:55:58 UTC
@CCP RubberBAND

Just curious: Why are the bullet points for the Crest endpoints spoiler-hidden (only visible by highlighting)? Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#33 - 2014-07-18 17:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RubberBAND
Rivr Luzade wrote:
@CCP RubberBAND

Just curious: Why are the bullet points for the Crest endpoints spoiler-hidden (only visible by highlighting)? Big smile


Spoilers until Crius!

Actually just bad formatting, (edit) not fixed yet, but someone is looking into this.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2014-07-18 17:08:24 UTC
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.


My blueprint is coming out of the oven at level 9 AFTER the crius release. And i will have the same time to get it to 10 as any of the people that had it at level 5. Bottom line, i lose 8 months of research that i have invested in order to have a BETTER BPO. Why ?


The BPO is still better, but yes, if you'd done less research you'd still be at the same point on Wednesday. Sorry. As to the "why", see my previous post.
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#35 - 2014-07-18 17:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: asteroidjas
asteroidjas wrote:

Are you absolutely sure that all of my already invented T2 BPC's will not actually cost me more materials to produce after tuesday? Or is that just another guess? Last time i looked on SiSi, everything used 20-50% more than it did on TQ. Or are we just going to have to trust you on this one?

CCP Greyscale wrote:

- As sure as we can be, we're converting the ME and TE levels on existing BPCs to be positive, which balances out the material increase


Oh really....then why did you just respond with this? (after one of the people paying your salary did your job for you)
...
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Yes, decrypted blueprints will require more materials after Crius (whether invented before or after, no, I can't make a concrete suggestion for planning around subsequent invention changes.

...
Thank you CCP, for being open and honest from the start. (you have been asked this very question for a while now...and only chose to answer it the friday before the patch hits?)

Also, SiSi is STILL not up for any of us paying customers to verify ANYTHING.

I thought the point of this 6-week schedule was to make sure you had everything working each time...yet here we stand, a few days away, all final changes that will get pushed to TQ have not even been seen by players yet. Why don't you delay until all these things are fixed. It would probly save you alot of lost subscriptions. /end rant
Lion El'Johnson
Fun Police
#36 - 2014-07-18 17:59:25 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The BPO is still better, but yes, if you'd done less research you'd still be at the same point on Wednesday. Sorry. As to the "why", see my previous post.



Ok, thank you. Guess that some people can get bonuses and refunds for their missed time but only the people YOU like.


"SORRY" really covers my payments to you CCP. Silly me. Should have stopped paying 8 months ago. Will know better next month.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-07-18 18:24:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.


My blueprint is coming out of the oven at level 9 AFTER the crius release. And i will have the same time to get it to 10 as any of the people that had it at level 5. Bottom line, i lose 8 months of research that i have invested in order to have a BETTER BPO. Why ?


The BPO is still better, but yes, if you'd done less research you'd still be at the same point on Wednesday. Sorry. As to the "why", see my previous post.


Better in what way exactly?

side note
it seems that as long as you do not have negative 6 through 3 ME on a print, everything just got more expensive to make (in terms of materials) and that's before the fairly major increase in job slot costs.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Careby
#38 - 2014-07-18 20:26:06 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.


My blueprint is coming out of the oven at level 9 AFTER the crius release. And i will have the same time to get it to 10 as any of the people that had it at level 5. Bottom line, i lose 8 months of research that i have invested in order to have a BETTER BPO. Why ?


The BPO is still better, but yes, if you'd done less research you'd still be at the same point on Wednesday. Sorry. As to the "why", see my previous post.


But wait. What is Lion's current research job? If it is to increase ME from 8 to 9, won't it result in "perfect" ME -10%? The ME8 gets converted to -9% when Crius is implemented, then the additional level is added to that when the job ends. Or do I misunderstand what's been said?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2014-07-18 20:47:11 UTC
Careby wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Lion El'Johnson wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
All that said, if your blueprint is currently ME9 and you put it in for research prior to Crius releasing, your time to 10 will be significantly reduced compared to someone who gets increased to 9 with the Crius conversion: the job will finish, and increment one level, at whatever time your pre-Crius job was scheduled to finish at. That works out at ~2 months from 9 to 10, compared to ~2 years for someone whose blueprint bumps up to 9 on Tuesday.


My blueprint is coming out of the oven at level 9 AFTER the crius release. And i will have the same time to get it to 10 as any of the people that had it at level 5. Bottom line, i lose 8 months of research that i have invested in order to have a BETTER BPO. Why ?


The BPO is still better, but yes, if you'd done less research you'd still be at the same point on Wednesday. Sorry. As to the "why", see my previous post.


But wait. What is Lion's current research job? If it is to increase ME from 8 to 9, won't it result in "perfect" ME -10%? The ME8 gets converted to -9% when Crius is implemented, then the additional level is added to that when the job ends. Or do I misunderstand what's been said?



...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-07-18 22:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...yeah, actually that sounds legit. It'll convert to 9 on patch day, and then 10 at end of job. Anyone with a blueprint of ME5 or more that's in research on Tuesday should come out at ME10%.

Sorry, my math's been awful today, it's been a busy week!

What? That doesn't correlate to the patch notes. According the the patch notes only a BPO which is researched to ME 10 pre crius, will come out as perfect.

If they put it in to research pre crius to ME 9, then surely that is converted to ME 9% post crius. That is according to the patch notes anyway unless there is some kind of extra bonus I've missed.

from the patch notes

"Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered"

So if it is ME 5 when delivered, that should equal an ME -9% BPO when the job finishes.