Warfare & Tactics

1 this has been important since 2008
2 as many years of threads have been suggested the main imbalance is the ewar. balance the ewar so that either all races have heavy ewar and GOOD ewar. or no ewar at all
3 fw missions should be geared toward groupwork. heavy payout heavy risks.

Minmatar likely have the easiest missions. They also have dominated fw occupancy more than any other faction since inferno. Before inferno it was pretty much all Caldari.

Just saying.

Remove the ewar inequalities with regards to bombers
Reduce the LP payout especially at high WZ tier. Possibly detach LP payout from WZ tier.

Anything more than that is probably too ambitious

What I find is that even with a T3 max ECCM skils and two ECCM I'm still getting jammed and this a annoying for me. I think that either all races should be able to run them with SB or none should. While some people have stated it does tend to make the LP higher on one side, the fact that one group and make it hand over fist cancles that out.

I also agree that they still need to be at a lower bar for newbros, but be fair to all the newbros not just one group.

I would much rather channel farmers into mssions that don't affect WZ control then make them super difficult. Balance them to the same difficulty. Make it so that the rats don't shoot friendly militia. Add a kill switch for the opposing militia to hit.

On a different note non FW missions in low sec are as hard as they are in high. High vs low should be different. NPC Corporations shouldn't straddle security zones as they do. You could have more fun with LP store diversity if they didn't.

also missions need to be changed to follow the new sovereignty system rather than the old one.

1. FW missions are vitally important to isk making in FW. Allot of people complain about a lack of Bs or BC fleets but for Winmatar personally, high LP and relatively easy isk making at T4 allows us to do this. ( Even in Amarr Millita. ) Allot of what I am seeing is " It's too easy to do FW missions etc etc. However keep in mind the process of even getting to T4 to make those missions worth while it is easily 1-2 months of plexing and grinding systems.

2. The imbalance is easy to see, Target paints make Amarr missions hard, Damps make Gallente missions hard forcing you to fly bigger or be super awesome in an SB. I'm passive about the difficulty of the missions because the harderd the Gal/Amarr missions are generally means that their LP is worth more as opposed to Minmatar missions.

What to do?

The biggest issue I see, and is being discussed here is that LP PAYOUT IS TOO HIGH FOR HOW EASY IT IS>. and that few groups spend a long time grinding systems and plexing then countless others mooch off of the efforts with minimal work in the actually FW mechanics of space.

So a solution or something for a change; what if there was a system that could "count" FW efforts. For example, a system that can calculate the amount of Plexes, Ihubs, or WT killed a Corp/Alliance participated in. And using that calculation award that Alliance/Corp an LP payout bonus that shows their participation in FW. The bonus would of course be capped at a certain point.

Maybe an easy way to think of it is like there is a Militia wide Tier level, but what if your Corp/Alliance had one too?

Another thing to consider:

Making missions require bigger ships or gangs would be difficult because 1. Pirates would be all over those likes bees to honey. And while it may bring fights, it may completely prevent you from finishing the mission resulting in standings loss, or you loose your whole fleet then you spend the next week trying to gain LP just to make up for the ships you lost.

2. Gate camps suck.

3. If LP becomes significantly harder to come by Fights and the size of Fights in FW may GREATLY down scale because no one has the isk to afford those ships or willingness to risk them.

4. As easy as FW missions are the "Climb" to get there is hard. This cannot be forgotten when considering how to change FW missions.

The imbalance is only perceived because the reality of LP/isk per hour made is being ignored.

That said - I do believe it should also be possible for you Gals and the Amarr to run L4 missions inefficiently in SBs just like a few dumb people in Minmatar and Caldari do.
I 100% believe in sharing the stupid people between all militias.

The fact that is ignored whenever this topic comes up is that while it is possible to run some of the L4 missions in an SB - It is a stupid way to do them.
Their LP per hour is quite pathetic.
(I tried it once in a Manticore and instantly went 'F**K THIS' and got in a Drake and later used Tengus.)

A Gallente militia farmer using their T3 cruiser are making a lot more LP per hour than the Caldari Stealth Bomber farmer. So the Risk vs Reward aspect is working fine.


To really farm Caldari FW missions we ran them in T3 gangs - Just like the Gallente do to farm FW mission.
I would suggest that the Gallente are generally making the same amount of LP while farming in their T3s as the Caldari are when farming in T3s. (But the Gals make more isk as their LP is more valuable - Maybe you could ask CCP to nerf Gal LP payouts to balance that? )

You can equate people running L4s in SBs to people who mine to make isk. While they do make some isk - it is not a lot and they could have made more by doing something else.


Mirana Bacon - Could you ask CCP if you can have some figures on how much LP the average Galmil mission farmer in a T3 makes compared to a Calmil mission farmer in a SB in an hour at an equal tier?

Then ask for the figures if they both use T3s so that people can judge if there really is an imbalance.

I think pushing the anti-missile mod that has been talked about for ages would be one way to address the missile spam issue. Instead of making it a targeted mod, like TDs, maybe it could function as some sort of missile guidance jamming system against all incoming missiles. Bigger brains could figure out the details.

1. no. I flew in minnie fw using 2 cerbs and a phoon and farmed 40mil lp. I preferred the bigger ships.
2. there is none. scrubs are gonna fly bombers, but they suck at doing missions properly tbh. The imbalance is that minmatar has been at tier 4 for so long, which personally makes 0 sense to me. The l4 missions aren't a big deal until you get to the higher tiers, and I suspect that CCP didn't intend for any one faction to sit on tier 4 for a month at a time.
3. bigger ships for sure. It is possible to go out in a keres and go on a rampage of bombers, but I miss the old camping days where pirates would chill on gates and just massacre anything bigger then a shuttle that came through, which could really lead to some great fights. Now in FW it seems that most of the fights happen on an acceleration gate to some plex, which tends to mean its geared alot more towards frigs. Mind you, I don't think alot of that comes from l4 missioners but it would be nice to see people forced into bigger ships to bring some more life back to fw lowsec and the accompanying pirate gatecamps that were so common in the past.