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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Sadew42
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1281 - 2014-05-29 01:32:35 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:

If anyone truly pays attention to comments made in this forum they would know that I was reposting someone elses fit through sisi. The point being the need to fit 3x cpu mods. Wheather or not that person has good fitting skills was never brought up. It was assumed that he had some.


460*1.25=575

He should have 575 CPU before any fitting modules, assuming his CPU fitting skill is at V, which it should be. Let's not forget all the other fitting skills etc. etc. so in reality this ship should have plenty of CPU available before fitting mods, even.
Mario Putzo
#1282 - 2014-05-29 02:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


There seems to be something wrong with your stats on the CPU on that ship. The base CPU is more than a Caracal, and the Caracal can fit that exact same fit without any fitting mods (ignoring the power grid shortage of course.). So I am not sure what your point is, you should have no issue fitting that with T2 stuff, and either having a Nano in the 4th low, or a CPU mod to make use of the 6th high slot. Really the only choice comes down to a 3rd BCU over the second LSE, or a wide array of midslot options in place of the second LSE. The only reason you should need a fitting mod is if you wish to make use of the spare highslot.

Unless CCP has reduced the 460 Base CPU for the Orthrus. For comparison the CPU base for the Caracal is 430 and with level 5 skills you get more CPU than the linked Orthrus does with all those CPU fitting mods on it. You should sit at 575 CPU before any fitting mods, which is ~40 CPU more than the Caracal.


Edit, Actually you shouldn't need to use a CPU mod at all to make use of the 6th High (unless you are putting a drone link on), and you should be able to squeeze 3BCU's on with 2LSE, although you might need to make 1 LSE Meta 4 instead of T2.



If anyone truly pays attention to comments made in this forum they would know that I was reposting someone elses fit through sisi. The point being the need to fit 3x cpu mods. Wheather or not that person has good fitting skills was never brought up. It was assumed that he had some.


Speaking of paying attention to comments, first the fit is not from Sisi it is from EVEHQ a fitting tool with a customized Caracal representing the Orthrus, second the person who posted the fit has corrected their post acknowledging that CCP has indeed increased CPU from the initial post, and it does in fact have no fitting issues with that particular fit.

Instead of just trying to parrot someone elses complaint next time, perhaps you should do the investigating yourself.

It had nothing to do with fitting skills, it had to do with an incorrect mock up on the customized ship in EVE HQ.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1283 - 2014-05-29 05:16:22 UTC
Yeah, Orthrus is pretty much fine for CPU now, hth.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1284 - 2014-05-29 08:50:20 UTC
For a stealth ship, I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the pointy spikes all over the top of the Barghest hull (which really don't seem to serve any purposes except to affix a blinking red light).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1285 - 2014-05-29 10:01:48 UTC
How is the cruiser lacking CPU?
I mean you can dual XL-ASB fit it with a coproc and proc overclock. Not even a comedy fit.
On each other config that came to mind, not a single CPU mod was needed. Really can't follow on the CPU issues.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1286 - 2014-05-29 11:39:43 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I am able to run the numbers myself, what I'm asking you is your idea of what the comparison should be - to post the numbers that you are saying are low. what do you think it should be able to hit that it cannot.

A fair comparison would seem to be with the Raven Navy Issue, Golem - possibly the Typhoon Fleet Issue? Missiles can hit anything, that's not the issue. But applying more than 50% of rated DPS without implants, full rigors and a pair of target painters is going to be a challenge.



You dont need to apply full damage. The same way a ship with AC will almsot NEVER apply full damage. The same way a ship with pulse lasers will also not apply full damage to anything manually cotnrolling trasnversal.

Then you will say.. just web him!! And I shall answer.. and how that is different from the TP you need for the missiles?


THe missile damage applicaiton issue is a MYTH! Missiles just have a different curve of damage application. While Turrets have a more logaritmic curve, missiles have an exponentail curve. Dependign on what part of the domain axis you are one is better than the other.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1287 - 2014-05-29 11:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I am able to run the numbers myself, what I'm asking you is your idea of what the comparison should be - to post the numbers that you are saying are low. what do you think it should be able to hit that it cannot.

A fair comparison would seem to be with the Raven Navy Issue, Golem - possibly the Typhoon Fleet Issue? Missiles can hit anything, that's not the issue. But applying more than 50% of rated DPS without implants, full rigors and a pair of target painters is going to be a challenge.



You don't need to apply full damage. The same way a ship with AC will almost NEVER apply full damage. The same way a ship with pulse lasers will also not apply full damage to anything manually controlling transversal.

Then you will say.. just web him!! And I shall answer.. and how that is different from the TP you need for the missiles?


The missile damage application issue is a MYTH! Missiles just have a different curve of damage application. While Turrets have a more logarithmic curve, missiles have an exponential curve. Depending on what part of the domain axis you are one is better than the other.



First post I've given a like this year

Enjoy.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1288 - 2014-05-29 15:26:14 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


There seems to be something wrong with your stats on the CPU on that ship. The base CPU is more than a Caracal, and the Caracal can fit that exact same fit without any fitting mods (ignoring the power grid shortage of course.). So I am not sure what your point is, you should have no issue fitting that with T2 stuff, and either having a Nano in the 4th low, or a CPU mod to make use of the 6th high slot. Really the only choice comes down to a 3rd BCU over the second LSE, or a wide array of midslot options in place of the second LSE. The only reason you should need a fitting mod is if you wish to make use of the spare highslot.

Unless CCP has reduced the 460 Base CPU for the Orthrus. For comparison the CPU base for the Caracal is 430 and with level 5 skills you get more CPU than the linked Orthrus does with all those CPU fitting mods on it. You should sit at 575 CPU before any fitting mods, which is ~40 CPU more than the Caracal.


Edit, Actually you shouldn't need to use a CPU mod at all to make use of the 6th High (unless you are putting a drone link on), and you should be able to squeeze 3BCU's on with 2LSE, although you might need to make 1 LSE Meta 4 instead of T2.



If anyone truly pays attention to comments made in this forum they would know that I was reposting someone elses fit through sisi. The point being the need to fit 3x cpu mods. Wheather or not that person has good fitting skills was never brought up. It was assumed that he had some.


Speaking of paying attention to comments, first the fit is not from Sisi it is from EVEHQ a fitting tool with a customized Caracal representing the Orthrus, second the person who posted the fit has corrected their post acknowledging that CCP has indeed increased CPU from the initial post, and it does in fact have no fitting issues with that particular fit.

Instead of just trying to parrot someone elses complaint next time, perhaps you should do the investigating yourself.

It had nothing to do with fitting skills, it had to do with an incorrect mock up on the customized ship in EVE HQ.


1. Who cares. At the end of the day I said it was something some else posted.
2. Me stating that cpu, and pg with hams is a problem on shield based missile boats is a fact.
3. Aren't we all parroting on an issue someone else raised? Yes, we are. Because the fact is we can only complain or support but a finite amount of issue on a single topic. 
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1289 - 2014-05-29 16:46:21 UTC
I just saw the pictures on the dev blog, the new ships look sexy indeed!

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Pottebee
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1290 - 2014-05-29 19:47:21 UTC
Oops 10yrs a CAREBEAR and still shafted !!


Where's the high sec agents for Mordu's Legion Shocked



Quick make some , Idea









Willing to RAGEQUIT at any time soon , but not this UghDECADEUgh
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1291 - 2014-05-29 19:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sniper Smith
Pottebee wrote:
Oops 10yrs a CAREBEAR and still shafted !!


Where's the high sec agents for Mordu's Legion Shocked



Quick make some , Idea









Willing to RAGEQUIT at any time soon , but not this UghDECADEUgh

Pirate Factions don't have highsec agents, or ship BPC drops in Highsec.. Well unless you count what can drop out of the Mothership in an Incursion..
Mario Putzo
#1292 - 2014-05-29 20:37:05 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:

1. Who cares. At the end of the day I said it was something some else posted.
2. Me stating that cpu, and pg with hams is a problem on shield based missile boats is a fact.
3. Aren't we all parroting on an issue someone else raised? Yes, we are. Because the fact is we can only complain or support but a finite amount of issue on a single topic.


1) And you didn't read beyond that Someone else made a mistake, and you doubled down on it. Then cried foul at people who didn't read comments.

3) Yes that is what parroting is.

2) There is no issue with missile shield ships PG/CPU limitations. Why do you think a missile shield ship should be able to fit its highest damage rated weapon choice, a tank and a full set of damage mods. Armor ships can't do that, so why should shield ships have that benefit. Hell Shield Gunboats can't even do that so why should missiles receive special treatment over every other ship class in the game?

Its called balance, and forcing a player to give up either damage mods, tank or utility mods in order to fit certain weapon types is part of it.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1293 - 2014-05-29 20:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:



Are all ALOD owners so dramatic or is it just you?


I've called Arthur out before for his careless isk destroying ways. But your comment compelled me to see what new travesties he has committed against the pvp faith ... lo and behold I see a 38 bil raven.

Arthur for some reason feels compelled to lemming his mission running boats in lowsec, over and over again. His posts about the RLML are so skewed towards ignorance it defies explanation - "hi guys I tried engaging 20 assault frigates with my tengu and died, RLML are bad ok" type of material.

his most recent tengu loss was using a subsystem he didn't even equip bonused modules for. Arthur just has no idea at all what he's doing or what he's talking about.

I haven't done a terribly large amount of investigation in to this barghest but if it follows the patterns of the smaller ships then I think we're looking at RHML scram kiter that will be *adequate* against other battleships and/or battlecruisers. If it gets caught in a gate camp it will still DIAF like all the others.

Indeed, would be very good if he would stop posting in these feedback threads, or at least limit himself to a couple of posts. It is no wonder that Rise loses interest in the thread when people like him drown out all of the good feedback with his constant spew of foolish opinions and suggestions.

The Barghest will be fine, although I do agree it looks completely wrong for a ship which is meant to excel at speed and agility, and the garmur will end up being the new Dramiel.
Davide Ncc
Doomheim
#1294 - 2014-05-29 22:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Davide Ncc
CCP Rise wrote:
Say hello to the newest pirate faction in New Eden, Mordu's Legion.


Mordu's ships are focused on three main themes: speed, missiles, and warp scram/disruptor range. The primary goal is to have a very capable set of kiting ships that are especially attractive to PVPers. They will get bonuses from Caldari and Gallente spaceship command skills. We initially wanted to fill the Caldari/Minmatar faction gap, but the existing factions didn't really support that and adding story and assets for an entirely new faction wasn't practical. Mordu's Legion suits our goals extremely well in every other way so we are very happy with them (and their scary stealth pizza pan art).

Look forward to hearing what you guys think, we are pretty excited.



=======================================================================================

GARMUR

Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile damage

Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 32

=======================================================================================

ORTHRUS

Caldari Cruiser Bonus per level:
20% bonus to missile damage

Gallente Cruiser Bonus per level:
10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 4L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 460 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2950 / 2280 / 2100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 1550 / 3.16
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 245 / .48 / 9362000 / 6.23s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 21
Signature radius: 120

=======================================================================================

BARGHEST

Caldari Battleship Bonus per level:
5% bonus to missile damage

Gallente Battleship Bonus per level:
10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 6L; 0 turrets, 7 launchers
Fittings: 11600 PWG, 730 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 370

=======================================================================================

They can be purchased from the Mordu’s Legion LP store in Pure Blind for the following prices:

Garmur Blueprint: 20,000 LP and 10,000,000 isk
Garmur: 80,000 LP and 5,000,000 isk
Orthrus Blueprint: 80,000 LP and 20,000,000 isk
Orthrus: 240,000 LP and 15,000,000 isk
Barghest Blueprint: 400,000 LP and 100,000,000 isk
Barghest: 800,000 LP and 80,000,000 isk

The larger part of the supply will come from a set of new NPCs that will spawn in all lowsec asteroid belts. These will be uncommon npcs with a similar rarity to hauler spawns. Each NPC will appear by itself and will drop the blueprint for its associated ship 100% of the time. The chance of these Mordu’s Legion NPCs spawning is equal in all areas of lowsec.


Bonus to the missle damage and velocity too high !!! Your are going to create a overpowered new class of ships. If you want to do something good remove 1 or 2 low slots from the ships or drop the bonus value to 10% or 15 % for level damage and 100 % velocity (and if needed also less)

Don't make people get angry and mad before doing something
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1295 - 2014-05-29 22:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Davide Ncc wrote:


Bonus to the missle damage and velocity too high !!! Your are going to create a overpowered new class of ships. If you want to do something good remove 1 or 2 low slots from the ships or drop the bonus value to 10% or 15 % for level damage and 100 % velocity (and if needed also less)

Don't make people get angry and mad before doing something
firstly, please don't quote the whole OP especially when it's a long one.

Second, it only equates to 50% bonus in range while your proposal would double that.
XMaxan
The Legion of X
#1296 - 2014-05-30 00:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: XMaxan
Even just making the lock range on frigate 30KM would help. Currently with max skills it only goes to about 35KM without mods..... My missiles would go 38 KM...... Disruptor 36KM............ I guess it is not too bad, but would be nice to see base lock on range bumped up by at least 2KM.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1297 - 2014-05-30 05:34:59 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Pottebee wrote:
Oops 10yrs a CAREBEAR and still shafted !!


Where's the high sec agents for Mordu's Legion Shocked



Quick make some , Idea









Willing to RAGEQUIT at any time soon , but not this UghDECADEUgh

Pirate Factions don't have highsec agents, or ship BPC drops in Highsec.. Well unless you count what can drop out of the Mothership in an Incursion..


SOE is pirate faction and they have highsec agents. Mordus Legion aren't really true pirates in the sense. They are more like special forces for the caldari.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1298 - 2014-05-30 05:47:17 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
SOE is pirate faction and they have highsec agents. Mordus Legion aren't really true pirates in the sense. They are more like special forces for the caldari.

SOE is a "Non-Empire" faction that has been dumped into the Pirate Faction category, they are however not a pirate faction, as they do not have their own rats that will attack players.

Mordu's Legion IS a pirate faction because their rats will attack any players, and while they have close relations to the Caldari Navy (and some Mega-corps) they still conduct raids against Caldari Interests, as well as against the other empires and pirate factions. They are a little more on the side of light than the 5 big pirate factions, to the point where they have been contracted by the Caldari and Gallente Gov't to provide the security for Luminaire, but that doesn't negate their pirate status.

Or to put it a short way.. If they appear in a belt and shoot at you, they are a pirate faction :p
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1299 - 2014-05-30 05:48:59 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:

1. Who cares. At the end of the day I said it was something some else posted.
2. Me stating that cpu, and pg with hams is a problem on shield based missile boats is a fact.
3. Aren't we all parroting on an issue someone else raised? Yes, we are. Because the fact is we can only complain or support but a finite amount of issue on a single topic.


1) And you didn't read beyond that Someone else made a mistake, and you doubled down on it. Then cried foul at people who didn't read comments.

3) Yes that is what parroting is.

2) There is no issue with missile shield ships PG/CPU limitations. Why do you think a missile shield ship should be able to fit its highest damage rated weapon choice, a tank and a full set of damage mods. Armor ships can't do that, so why should shield ships have that benefit. Hell Shield Gunboats can't even do that so why should missiles receive special treatment over every other ship class in the game?

Its called balance, and forcing a player to give up either damage mods, tank or utility mods in order to fit certain weapon types is part of it.


1. I obviously didn't see what was or wasn't re-posted. And i'm not scrolling through x amount of comments over x amount of pages to find it.
2. I stopped caring after my last response. I haven't even read the rest of what you said above.

3. it's over. Let it go. I dhunt care no morez .

4. I'd really wish people would stop raging at everyone in these forums.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1300 - 2014-05-30 05:49:23 UTC