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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1261 - 2014-05-28 20:18:08 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Finally, while I really like talking with you guys and want you to understand our decisions and designs as much as possible, the primary purpose of feedback threads is for us to gather information. As much as I wish I could spend time talking through every issue you raise, sometimes just knowing you have that issue is enough and we take that information and make the best we can of it, which may not include a post to you.

We find these thread invaluable and I hope that even when you see our posting slowing down you won't stop giving feedback or feel frustrated by these threads generally.

Your actions demonstrate otherwise. If you want to regain some credibility with the player base, you're going to have to do better. I don't think asking for a short update every week or so is an unrealistic expectation. If the initial changes were always intended for TQ, that takes all of one line to indicate. And roughly 95% of the posts in this thread concern the Barghest - so I don't think it was asking for too much to at least address the handful of concerns raised with respect to the bonuses and CPU.

You don't have to comment or engage us in open debate on every issue (nor do we expect you to), but to basically leave this thread abandoned for over 2 weeks is inexcusable - especially considering this is a fairly important addition to Kronos (well, at least for some of us).

The EVE player base is your single largest (free) resource, and if you continue to neglect it you're going to find out firsthand how it feels operating in a vacuum (EVE pun, couldn't resist). This is intended as constructive criticism, and I hope you embrace it as such.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1262 - 2014-05-28 20:24:08 UTC
Sirinda wrote:
*cough* symmetrical launchers *cough* Smile

They're symmetrical... on top. Just try to avoid looking at the underside...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1263 - 2014-05-28 20:30:34 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:


Given how new and expensive the ships would be, I'd rather you lean towards OP, then dial back if needed.. then aim low and dial up :(



I'd rather have it the other way so they become reasonably affordable more quickly.
Mario Putzo
#1264 - 2014-05-28 20:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


There seems to be something wrong with your stats on the CPU on that ship. The base CPU is more than a Caracal, and the Caracal can fit that exact same fit without any fitting mods (ignoring the power grid shortage of course.). So I am not sure what your point is, you should have no issue fitting that with T2 stuff, and either having a Nano in the 4th low, or a CPU mod to make use of the 6th high slot. Really the only choice comes down to a 3rd BCU over the second LSE, or a wide array of midslot options in place of the second LSE. The only reason you should need a fitting mod is if you wish to make use of the spare highslot.

Unless CCP has reduced the 460 Base CPU for the Orthrus. For comparison the CPU base for the Caracal is 430 and with level 5 skills you get more CPU than the linked Orthrus does with all those CPU fitting mods on it. You should sit at 575 CPU before any fitting mods, which is ~40 CPU more than the Caracal.


Edit, Actually you shouldn't need to use a CPU mod at all to make use of the 6th High (unless you are putting a drone link on), and you should be able to squeeze 3BCU's on with 2LSE, although you might need to make 1 LSE Meta 4 instead of T2.
Sadew42
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1265 - 2014-05-28 21:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sadew42
MeBiatch wrote:

though i was really hopping for a mixed cal/min factions...


Agreed. I understand the lore (minus Templar One), but now it's like, "Oh look, yet another Gallente hybrid ship line." What is this now, five that Gallente has, with Minmatar at 3 and Caldari at 3 (two of which are hybrid with Gallente) and one each with Amarr, which itself has 3 one of which is Gallente. This is ridiculous. Gallente is part of almost all the hybrid ship lines; Gallente is part of five hybrid ship lines while only two are not. Five sevenths, 71% of the hybrid lines involve Gallente. This is absurd, it should be no more than half.

CCP, what are you doing? It's such blatant favoritism, especially after the Caldari Prime leak.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#1266 - 2014-05-28 21:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Sadew42 wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

though i was really hopping for a mixed cal/min factions...


Agreed. I understand the lore (minus Templar One), but now it's like, "Oh look, yet another Gallente hybrid ship line." What is this now, five that Gallente has, with Minmatar at 3 and Caldari at 3 (two of which are hybrid with Gallente) and one each with Amarr, which itself has 3 one of which is Gallente. This is ridiculous. Gallente is part of almost all the hybrid ship lines; Gallente is part of five hybrid ship lines while only two are not. Five sevenths, 71% of the hybrid lines involve Gallente. This is absurd, it should be no more than half.

CCP, what are you doing? It's such blatant favoritism, especially after the Caldari Prime leak.

Society for Conscious Thought or maybe Thukker could be used for a Caldari Minmatar hybrid/pirate ship line IdeaQuestion

edit - and that's it, I'm firing my wardrobe advisor (but I think I wore it better P)

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Sadew42
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1267 - 2014-05-28 21:24:56 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:

Society for Conscious Thought or maybe Thukker could be used for a Caldari Minmatar hybrid/pirate ship line IdeaQuestion


Then they should get on that. There now needs to be one Caldari and Minmatar, one additional Caldari and Amarr, and a Minmatar and Amarr ship line to balance it all out.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1268 - 2014-05-28 21:47:40 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Finally, while I really like talking with you guys and want you to understand our decisions and designs as much as possible, the primary purpose of feedback threads is for us to gather information. As much as I wish I could spend time talking through every issue you raise, sometimes just knowing you have that issue is enough and we take that information and make the best we can of it, which may not include a post to you.

We find these thread invaluable and I hope that even when you see our posting slowing down you won't stop giving feedback or feel frustrated by these threads generally.

Your actions demonstrate otherwise. If you want to regain some credibility with the player base, you're going to have to do better. I don't think asking for a short update every week or so is an unrealistic expectation. If the initial changes were always intended for TQ, that takes all of one line to indicate. And roughly 95% of the posts in this thread concern the Barghest - so I don't think it was asking for too much to at least address the handful of concerns raised with respect to the bonuses and CPU.

You don't have to comment or engage us in open debate on every issue (nor do we expect you to), but to basically leave this thread abandoned for over 2 weeks is inexcusable - especially considering this is a fairly important addition to Kronos (well, at least for some of us).

The EVE player base is your single largest (free) resource, and if you continue to neglect it you're going to find out firsthand how it feels operating in a vacuum (EVE pun, couldn't resist). This is intended as constructive criticism, and I hope you embrace it as such.



Are all ALOD owners so dramatic or is it just you?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1269 - 2014-05-28 22:53:19 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Society for Conscious Thought or maybe Thukker could be used for a Caldari Minmatar hybrid/pirate ship line IdeaQuestion


I lean towards Thukker Tribe.. since SOC is what is often used for CCP Gift ships like the BC..

If they DO to it, my suggestion would be the missile bonus from the Mordu's Legion, combined with the Web bonus from the Bhaal..

Ranged bonused webs and missiles would work very well together.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1270 - 2014-05-28 22:58:35 UTC
Sadew42 wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:

Society for Conscious Thought or maybe Thukker could be used for a Caldari Minmatar hybrid/pirate ship line IdeaQuestion


Then they should get on that. There now needs to be one Caldari and Minmatar, one additional Caldari and Amarr, and a Minmatar and Amarr ship line to balance it all out.

Balance isn't needed..

If you step back, the idea that the Gal would be involved in so many of these makes sense, given how open their culture is.
Sadew42
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1271 - 2014-05-28 23:06:32 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:

If you step back, the idea that the Gal would be involved in so many of these makes sense, given how open their culture is.


Yes, their culture is open and that makes sense from a lore standpoint, but if a player wants to fly hybrid ships they shouldn't be forced to train Gallente for 5 of the 7. Most of the hybrid lines are the results of pirate factions, anyway, and I doubt the Gallente were open about sharing their secrets with them.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#1272 - 2014-05-28 23:24:18 UTC
Sadew42 wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:

If you step back, the idea that the Gal would be involved in so many of these makes sense, given how open their culture is.


Yes, their culture is open and that makes sense from a lore standpoint, but if a player wants to fly hybrid ships they shouldn't be forced to train Gallente for 5 of the 7. Most of the hybrid lines are the results of pirate factions, anyway, and I doubt the Gallente were open about sharing their secrets with them.


Its actualy more likely that Caldari would share their secrets, beeing all about the money and all (corporations generaly care more about their income than anything else
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1273 - 2014-05-28 23:27:37 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


Train your skills better, everything you fit on that cruiser fits fine with powergrid and cpu left. Btw that fit is terrible.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1274 - 2014-05-28 23:44:26 UTC
I was thinking less about the sharing of the secrets, and more along the sharing of the people.

Such an open culture would be more likely to have people chose to live on the darker side.. the only one that secrets would he shared with is likely SOE, but even then, they have the Amarr part which is hostile toward them.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#1275 - 2014-05-28 23:50:34 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:



Are all ALOD owners so dramatic or is it just you?


I've called Arthur out before for his careless isk destroying ways. But your comment compelled me to see what new travesties he has committed against the pvp faith ... lo and behold I see a 38 bil raven.

Arthur for some reason feels compelled to lemming his mission running boats in lowsec, over and over again. His posts about the RLML are so skewed towards ignorance it defies explanation - "hi guys I tried engaging 20 assault frigates with my tengu and died, RLML are bad ok" type of material.

his most recent tengu loss was using a subsystem he didn't even equip bonused modules for. Arthur just has no idea at all what he's doing or what he's talking about.

I haven't done a terribly large amount of investigation in to this barghest but if it follows the patterns of the smaller ships then I think we're looking at RHML scram kiter that will be *adequate* against other battleships and/or battlecruisers. If it gets caught in a gate camp it will still DIAF like all the others.
Twisted Chick
Sebiestor Tribe
#1276 - 2014-05-28 23:56:19 UTC
Sirinda wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
*snip*


*cough* symmetrical launchers *cough* Smile


This on a massive scale of OMFG YES.

Title: She who hunts Pandas

"Remember you can't spell Slaughter without Laughter!"

          ~Pinkamena Diane Pie~
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1277 - 2014-05-29 00:39:15 UTC
Twisted Chick wrote:
This on a massive scale of OMFG YES.

2/3 banks is as good as it's going to get.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1278 - 2014-05-29 00:40:38 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I haven't done a terribly large amount of investigation in to this barghest but if it follows the patterns of the smaller ships then I think we're looking at RHML scram kiter that will be *adequate* against other battleships and/or battlecruisers. If it gets caught in a gate camp it will still DIAF like all the others.


You should definately investigate a little deeper into that. Not that a Nestor comes along and may makes your investigation void..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1279 - 2014-05-29 00:54:41 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
[quote=Vincintius Agrippa]Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


Train your skills better, everything you fit on that cruiser fits fine with powergrid and cpu left. Btw that fit is terrible.[/qu

I have maxiumim fitting skills actually, and this is not even my fit. This is someone elses who posted from sisi.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1280 - 2014-05-29 00:58:50 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Having limited CPU on a shield based missile ship is just a bad idea. The previous fitting required 3x cpu mods/rigs to be usable. Sacrificing a decent amount of slots for such a low tank is just not worth it, especially for an expensive pirate cruiser.

Problems not taken into account with the cruiser:
Shield based missile cruisers are already strapped for cpu. I don't know what his skills were, but if you've got to use 3x CPU mods just to get to a total of 512tf then something is wrong.
Shield modules are CPU intensive, missile modules are CPU intensive.

Don't get me wrong scram range bonus, power grid, and missile velocity bonus are well deserved, but even compared to other missile shield cruisers, you shouldn't have to fit more than 1 or at MAX two identical fitting mods. In addition, a high slot isnt even being used.

The fit that was posted: as you can see, there is nothing crazy special about this fit. I'm sure a few tf can be saved by using a meta 4 point, invul, and dc. But really..........

Mordu cruiser


There seems to be something wrong with your stats on the CPU on that ship. The base CPU is more than a Caracal, and the Caracal can fit that exact same fit without any fitting mods (ignoring the power grid shortage of course.). So I am not sure what your point is, you should have no issue fitting that with T2 stuff, and either having a Nano in the 4th low, or a CPU mod to make use of the 6th high slot. Really the only choice comes down to a 3rd BCU over the second LSE, or a wide array of midslot options in place of the second LSE. The only reason you should need a fitting mod is if you wish to make use of the spare highslot.

Unless CCP has reduced the 460 Base CPU for the Orthrus. For comparison the CPU base for the Caracal is 430 and with level 5 skills you get more CPU than the linked Orthrus does with all those CPU fitting mods on it. You should sit at 575 CPU before any fitting mods, which is ~40 CPU more than the Caracal.


Edit, Actually you shouldn't need to use a CPU mod at all to make use of the 6th High (unless you are putting a drone link on), and you should be able to squeeze 3BCU's on with 2LSE, although you might need to make 1 LSE Meta 4 instead of T2.



If anyone truly pays attention to comments made in this forum they would know that I was reposting someone elses fit through sisi. The point being the need to fit 3x cpu mods. Wheather or not that person has good fitting skills was never brought up. It was assumed that he had some.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!