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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Phrike Horizon
The Alpha Project
#1221 - 2014-05-27 05:21:42 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So can anyone offer any insight into the massive size of the Barghest? (1757m long axis) Just to put this in perspective...

• Rokh is 1025m
• Vindicator is 1083m
• Typhoon is 1144m
• Obelisk freighter is 1162m
• Orca is 1451m
• Machariel is 1452m
• Nestor is 1467m
• Maelstrom is 1484m
• Hyperion is 1509m
• Apocalypse is 1550m
• Fenir is 1926m
• Nidhoggur carrier is 2188m

Well, it comes in black.


I personally am anxious to see how big it is when it finally hits with Kronos though it may look incredibly goofy but didn't you mention it comes in black?
Malcolm Malicious
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1222 - 2014-05-27 06:36:46 UTC
They should lower the reload on rapid launchers to 20 seconds.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1223 - 2014-05-27 08:57:30 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Sadly, i see these ships as one more thing to collect dust in a hanger. They're going to be too expensive to be viable for PvP, so why give them a PvP bonus?

People already use other pirate vessels for PvP, and should the drops work as intended these should likely fall into the same price range. Granted there will be the usual initial inflated prices, but after that, since the other pirate vessels see PvP use, why wouldn't these?


Because it's as "good" as Nestor? The other recent "pirate" BS hull. Other pirate BS are used because they are actually pretty good at something. When some platform is actually good for something then price does not matter all that much anymore as there are people who can afford the best tool in the toolbox. If it's just kind of "meh" then only some misinformed people use it, especially if it is not some reasonable "bang for buck" compromise.

Even today there are some pirate BS that are used more in PvE than in PvP (Nightmare, for example) - it remains to be seen what the upcoming re-balance pass is doing in that regard.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1224 - 2014-05-27 10:11:19 UTC
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1225 - 2014-05-27 11:13:27 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.


Dude, train your navigation skills O.o

The Orthus goes 2300 m/s

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1226 - 2014-05-27 11:48:09 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.


Dude, train your navigation skills O.o

The Orthus goes 2300 m/s



Then there's the Stabber fleet issue.

2160m/s with a 10mn MWD.

Fast, but not crazy fast.

(crazy would be filling it with overdrive injectors, to go over 3km/s)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1227 - 2014-05-27 12:09:06 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.


well it's a missile kiter, so fast and meh tank. sounds fine to me.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1228 - 2014-05-27 12:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.


Almost as if it's supposed to be in some kind of fast kiting role or something?

And still a couple of hundred m/s slower than the comparable Cynabal.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#1229 - 2014-05-27 12:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Out of curiosity, I just did some quick calculus at what would increase the Barghest (theorical) damage: adding an 8th launcher or increasing the 5% damage bonus to 7.5%.

- Adding an 8th launcher: would increase damage by 14.3% refering to what it does now.
- Increasing damage bonus to 7.5%: would increase damage by 12.5% refering to what it does now (all skills at 5).

I'm posting this here in case it's useful for discussion. Many people claim a damage application bonus. The other alternative would be to increase its damage output in one of these ways. I have no idea which one would be better for the balance, but adding an 8th launcher would be better than giving it a 7.5% damage bonus, as it not only allows it for slighty more damage but also makes its hardpoints to be symmetrical on the model. I insist, I don't know if that would be too much damage! But it being a Pirate Battleship seems like it could use some more damage.

EDIT: just flied around a bit with the frigate and cruiser. I have to congratulate the art team here! Blink They're very beautiful ships, and I loved the fact they fold themselves like origami when warping. Nice!
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#1230 - 2014-05-27 12:29:32 UTC
Was just toying with the frigate and cruiser on SISI, I likey! They are a skirmisher's dream, solid dps (nothing fantastic, but good), on the faster side of things and long ranged. Slap a RF point on it, toss in off grid links and I see absolutely no reason to come closer than 50km... with the frigate. Thing is a nano-slicer on crack.Twisted

The cruiser is equally impressive. Some previous posters said the bonuses are uninteresting and yes, taken on an individual bonus by bonus level there isn't anything new. But what we haven't seen before is a proper kiting missile boat. We have missile ships yes, and some can kinda kite but they all come with heavy duty tanking bonuses at the expense of speed/agility.

This is the first time we have a true kiting ship with missiles. It's also interesting in that it's the first ship with a point range bonus that also gets a range bonus to its primary weapons. All the others are close range brawlers or straight tacklers with minimal armament. So it is something truly new and does not overlap with any other ship I can think of.

I have no comment on the BS. BS's in general aren't exactly something I think of when I think "skirmish."

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1231 - 2014-05-27 13:17:35 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Why is Orthus going around 1900 m/s on 10mn MWD on test server? Is't it a little to fast for a cruiser?

It's tank is kinda lame, but still it will be hard to catch the bastar*.


Dude, train your navigation skills O.o

The Orthus goes 2300 m/s


LoL ok I will. I'm used to armour tanked T3 that go 1200 max Big smile. Still a nano BC will go more than 1500 so I guess it's ok.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1232 - 2014-05-27 15:22:31 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Out of curiosity, I just did some quick calculus at what would increase the Barghest (theorical) damage: adding an 8th launcher or increasing the 5% damage bonus to 7.5%.

- Adding an 8th launcher: would increase damage by 14.3% refering to what it does now.
- Increasing damage bonus to 7.5%: would increase damage by 12.5% refering to what it does now (all skills at 5).

I'm posting this here in case it's useful for discussion. Many people claim a damage application bonus. The other alternative would be to increase its damage output in one of these ways. I have no idea which one would be better for the balance, but adding an 8th launcher would be better than giving it a 7.5% damage bonus, as it not only allows it for slighty more damage but also makes its hardpoints to be symmetrical on the model. I insist, I don't know if that would be too much damage! But it being a Pirate Battleship seems like it could use some more damage.

EDIT: just flied around a bit with the frigate and cruiser. I have to congratulate the art team here! Blink They're very beautiful ships, and I loved the fact they fold themselves like origami when warping. Nice!


To satisfy your curiousity, the damage on the Barghest is fine the way it is. What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space.

And here it is again,
the missile tracking nonsence needs to go and the missile damage goes back to where is was. I know scary thoughts yada yada.

At least someone from the CSM should recon that that has actual merrit. And I really know what I am talking about.

Listen folks, missiles are artilley turrets that do damage at the end of the launcher cycle. But do not fear, the end is not near because artillery turrets has more damage than any missile volley and if you are fast enough, you can outrun them.

Things are not necessarly overpowered because pilots are bad at flying ships.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1233 - 2014-05-27 17:29:18 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space.

The formula is fine - what we need is a 25-50% bump in explosion velocity across all missiles so that they do close to 100% damage to stationary or slow-moving targets.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1234 - 2014-05-27 18:01:03 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
What is not fine is the way missiles do not damage to other flying objects in space.

The formula is fine - what we need is a 25-50% bump in explosion velocity across all missiles so that they do close to 100% damage to stationary or slow-moving targets.


This wasn't a typo Blink

And why not ditch all of that explosion nonsence all together?

Imagine torpedos able to hurt a destroyer at 65km. Not that a destroyer vessel should ever get on the same grid as a battleship but things happen.

You know that I am right and that I know what I am saying.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1235 - 2014-05-27 20:18:04 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Sadly, i see these ships as one more thing to collect dust in a hanger. They're going to be too expensive to be viable for PvP, so why give them a PvP bonus?

People already use other pirate vessels for PvP, and should the drops work as intended these should likely fall into the same price range. Granted there will be the usual initial inflated prices, but after that, since the other pirate vessels see PvP use, why wouldn't these?


Because it's as "good" as Nestor? The other recent "pirate" BS hull. Other pirate BS are used because they are actually pretty good at something. When some platform is actually good for something then price does not matter all that much anymore as there are people who can afford the best tool in the toolbox. If it's just kind of "meh" then only some misinformed people use it, especially if it is not some reasonable "bang for buck" compromise.

Even today there are some pirate BS that are used more in PvE than in PvP (Nightmare, for example) - it remains to be seen what the upcoming re-balance pass is doing in that regard.
She wasn't speaking exclusively to the BS so while that encompasses 1 of the ships, it does nothing to address the other 2.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#1236 - 2014-05-27 20:27:01 UTC
Again... Seeing only complaint about Barghest. Ran a lot of desings on the 3.

With Mordu's getting the Point range bonus along with being "Missile Specialists", they seemed destined as kiting ships.

Garmur- a pain to fit, went with light missiles for Kiting... Terrible damage output, but fast... Faction interceptor w/o interceptor benefits... Meh, will pass on this ship.

Orthrus - best of the 3. Good speed, DPS... It's not a Tengu, but after the initial Hype costs go down... Should be much cheaper than one.

Barghest - did many versions of this ship except Cruise missiles... I never use them. Shield tanking seems to yield crappy fits, but Armor tanking with Torps a Heavy Neut, MWD, Disruptor, at least 1 TP and various ewar to your liking and heavy Cap Booster went as my favorite version of this ship. MWD still kept me ahead of most other BS and DPS was decently applied. The Armor amount from just 1 1600 plate was shocking and may be a glitch as it showed me 34k raw Armor HP yielding 114k EHP! I'm not saying I'll run out and get this thing... But, if the increased the missile Damage Bonus up more... It would be worth thinking about for certain senarios.

Overall Mordu's ships look cool, but at this point, for me... Only act as basic T1 ships and not the Kick-@$$ heights of other Pirate Factions. Costs won't be worth the Hulls as the sit now.

My .02 isk.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1237 - 2014-05-27 20:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Cordo Draken wrote:
Again... Seeing only complaint about Barghest. Ran a lot of desings on the 3.

With Mordu's getting the Point range bonus along with being "Missile Specialists", they seemed destined as kiting ships.

Garmur- a pain to fit, went with light missiles for Kiting... Terrible damage output, but fast... Faction interceptor w/o interceptor benefits... Meh, will pass on this ship.

Orthrus - best of the 3. Good speed, DPS... It's not a Tengu, but after the initial Hype costs go down... Should be much cheaper than one.

Barghest - did many versions of this ship except Cruise missiles... I never use them. Shield tanking seems to yield crappy fits, but Armor tanking with Torps a Heavy Neut, MWD, Disruptor, at least 1 TP and various ewar to your liking and heavy Cap Booster went as my favorite version of this ship. MWD still kept me ahead of most other BS and DPS was decently applied. The Armor amount from just 1 1600 plate was shocking and may be a glitch as it showed me 34k raw Armor HP yielding 114k EHP! I'm not saying I'll run out and get this thing... But, if the increased the missile Damage Bonus up more... It would be worth thinking about for certain senarios.

Overall Mordu's ships look cool, but at this point, for me... Only act as basic T1 ships and not the Kick-@$$ heights of other Pirate Factions. Costs won't be worth the Hulls as the sit now.

My .02 isk.


Garmur outdps's pretty much all other lml boats and its easier to fit than pretty much all of them as well, stop being bad.

Orthus - no a tengu can't orbit you at 40 and keep you pointed.. or scram you at 20.

Barghest.. Surely you don't need scram range for station games.

In fact you seem to be discounting the scram/point part entirely.. which is pretty much the most important part of the ship for actual pvp.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1238 - 2014-05-27 21:02:17 UTC
We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1239 - 2014-05-27 22:58:36 UTC
Yeah rise isn't big on comunity interaction or acting of feedback. People told him the Nestor was a bad design and he refused to give it worthwhile bonuses.

That said, the mordu's ships are okay but i feel the need an extra low slot to make them viable armour ships.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1240 - 2014-05-28 02:20:11 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
We are now a week out.. and still no comments from CCP Rise.

Who?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.