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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1141 - 2014-05-25 23:27:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I am able to run the numbers myself, what I'm asking you is your idea of what the comparison should be - to post the numbers that you are saying are low. what do you think it should be able to hit that it cannot.

A fair comparison would seem to be with the Raven Navy Issue, Golem - possibly the Typhoon Fleet Issue? Missiles can hit anything, that's not the issue. But applying more than 50% of rated DPS without implants, full rigors and a pair of target painters is going to be a challenge.


fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1142 - 2014-05-25 23:30:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1143 - 2014-05-25 23:33:42 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1144 - 2014-05-25 23:37:05 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?

There's no word for it because it doesn't exist. You're obviously just trolling - welcome back to my block list.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1145 - 2014-05-25 23:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


(Edit: Missed your last post, didn't realize i was talking to a moppet, you can disregard what follows)
Its a battleship, they are most often not used on their own..

You can use them like that.. sure.. But its not very common.. So i think its quite reasonable to look at its abilities in a gang.

(Also how it does in PVE is absolutely irrelevant)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1146 - 2014-05-25 23:38:32 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?

There's no word for it because it doesn't exist. You're obviously just trolling - welcome back to my block list.


what did I do Ugh
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1147 - 2014-05-25 23:41:05 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?

The issue is, you don't need those on other ships.. and for sure don't need them on Pirate ships. Even without the webs, my Vindi can Full/Almost full damage to a BS, without any tracking mod's.. This can't.. CNR and Typhoon can, as they have the bonus.

And needing drugs? Really? If you need to carry around drugs to make your ship able to do it's job, it's time to take a look at the ship.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1148 - 2014-05-25 23:49:15 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?

The issue is, you don't need those on other ships.. and for sure don't need them on Pirate ships. Even without the webs, my Vindi can Full/Almost full damage to a BS, without any tracking mod's.. This can't.. CNR and Typhoon can, as they have the bonus.

And needing drugs? Really? If you need to carry around drugs to make your ship able to do it's job, it's time to take a look at the ship.


I'm surprised that the bonus on the RNI/typhoon is all that apparently makes this bad in your opinion, because that's pretty much just a TP or half a web. I had expected you to go on about how missiles are terminally broken or something. for bonuses that can be replicated with modules, that's pretty weak.

so apparently blasters with a tracking bonus have good tracking. why would you ever not use drugs in your pirate faction battleship? it's about 3 mil per hour for standard crash.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1149 - 2014-05-25 23:49:39 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
The issue is, you don't need those on other ships.. and for sure don't need them on Pirate ships. Even without the webs, my Vindi can Full/Almost full damage to a BS, without any tracking mod's.. This can't.. CNR and Typhoon can, as they have the bonus.

They're just trolling in an effort to keep the Barghest neutered.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1150 - 2014-05-25 23:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Sniper Smith wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


I'm going to call it tracking rather than whatever it actually is, because there isn't a word. and 'all sorts of gang links and external EW' sounds like an exaggeration. you need I think standard crash and a TP to hit battleships for full damage. if not, it's that plus a rigor. what is unreasonable about that, when the TP benefits the entire gang and is something you should have anyway?

The issue is, you don't need those on other ships.. and for sure don't need them on Pirate ships. Even without the webs, my Vindi can Full/Almost full damage to a BS, without any tracking mod's.. This can't.. CNR and Typhoon can, as they have the bonus.

And needing drugs? Really? If you need to carry around drugs to make your ship able to do it's job, it's time to take a look at the ship.


Ok using the Vindi as a comparison for application is moronic..

And i just checked the numbers and a Barghest does 65% dps against a unwebbed un tp'ed harbi without any sort of help.. One Tp brings that up to 80%.. On a weaponsystem that fires up to 220km.. So is the problem that you can't hit cruisers well with your battleship?

This arguement is dumb.

(EDIT: Also you should always use crash in a missile ship.. Always...)
(EDIT2: I just saw your wonderful Raven navy loss.. You clearly have a good idea about what should and should not be done with missile battleships, i'm stepping out of this arguement.. rofl)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1151 - 2014-05-25 23:55:50 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


(Edit: Missed your last post, didn't realize i was talking to a moppet, you can disregard what follows)
Its a battleship, they are most often not used on their own..

You can use them like that.. sure.. But its not very common.. So i think its quite reasonable to look at its abilities in a gang.

(Also how it does in PVE is absolutely irrelevant)

It is best to ignore that guy. He has no clue about how to use ships in pvp, and blocks everyone that tries to talk some sense into the moronic ideas he constantly spews.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1152 - 2014-05-25 23:59:18 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
fitting a couple of tracking enhancing modules on your ship and having a couple of TPs somewhere in your gang is not asking much. not that you need that much to hit a battleship or bc.

If the crutch of your argument is that the Barghest is fine with all sorts of gang links and external EW, then you can stop right there because the same could be said of any ship. We're obviously looking at the ship on its own, whether in a PvE or PvP environment. This should have been fairly obvious at this stage of the discussion... And missiles don't have 'tracking enhancers'.


(Edit: Missed your last post, didn't realize i was talking to a moppet, you can disregard what follows)
Its a battleship, they are most often not used on their own..

You can use them like that.. sure.. But its not very common.. So i think its quite reasonable to look at its abilities in a gang.

(Also how it does in PVE is absolutely irrelevant)

It is best to ignore that guy. He has no clue about how to use ships in pvp, and blocks everyone that tries to talk some sense into the moronic ideas he constantly spews.


Have you seen the raven? Were aren't allowed to show killmail links but seriously.. Look it up.. Its ******* magnificent.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1153 - 2014-05-26 00:00:38 UTC
We've been talking Torpedos here for a while..

Because why should I be using long range weapons on a ship with a bonus to scram range ? I should be able to use and apply my High DPS weapons.. Try your tests again with torps..

And why is it moronic? Both a Vindi and a Barghest are Pirate BS's, with a bonus that lends themselves to close range engagements.

In addition while the CNR's bonus can be augmented by TP's, the Typhoon's is an Explosion Velocity bonus, that cannot except with Rigs and Implants.

Or to put this in line with a turret boat.. What you're asking is for a BS to run with 3 tracking rigs and 2 TP's in order to hit targets.. If you had to dedicate that many mids and rigs to a Pirate BS's damage application there would be riots. The only one that gets even close is an Arty Mach, and that's all negated by the fact you can also use lows for tracking on turrets, where as you can't on missile boats.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1154 - 2014-05-26 00:04:30 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

(EDIT2: I just saw your wonderful Raven navy loss.. You clearly have a good idea about what should and should not be done with missile battleships, i'm stepping out of this arguement.. rofl)

I've never lost a Raven, in PVP or otherwise.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1155 - 2014-05-26 00:04:54 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
We've been talking Torpedos here for a while... Because why should I be using long range weapons on a ship with a bonus to scram range ? I should be able to use and apply my High DPS weapons.. Try your tests again with torps..

The only way the Barghest works with torpedos is as an armor fit and by sacrificing 4 of your mids for a pair of stasis webs and target painters. The +5 missile damage application implants are almost certainly required as well.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1156 - 2014-05-26 00:06:41 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
We've been talking Torpedos here for a while... Because why should I be using long range weapons on a ship with a bonus to scram range ? I should be able to use and apply my High DPS weapons.. Try your tests again with torps..

The only way the Barghest works with torpedos is as an armor fit and by sacrificing 4 of your mids for a pair of stasis webs and target painters. The +5 missile damage application implants are almost certainly required as well.


if you want to kill frigates, try flying a frigate or destroyer.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1157 - 2014-05-26 00:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Sniper Smith wrote:
We've been talking Torpedos here for a while..

Because why should I be using long range weapons on a ship with a bonus to scram range ? I should be able to use and apply my High DPS weapons.. Try your tests again with torps..

And why is it moronic? Both a Vindi and a Barghest are Pirate BS's, with a bonus that lends themselves to close range engagements.

In addition while the CNR's bonus can be augmented by TP's, the Typhoon's is an Explosion Velocity bonus, that cannot except with Rigs and Implants.

Or to put this in line with a turret boat.. What you're asking is for a BS to run with 3 tracking rigs and 2 TP's in order to hit targets.. If you had to dedicate that many mids and rigs to a Pirate BS's damage application there would be riots. The only one that gets even close is an Arty Mach, and that's all negated by the fact you can also use lows for tracking on turrets, where as you can't on missile boats.


Uhm its bonus also applies to long points..

And its ******** because the vindicator has broken webs and applies dps better than any other Bs in the game..

But sure on a BC with 1 web on it (Assuming that is allowed since you are counting on that for the vindi comparison) you do 80% dps

100% with web + tp

Again.. Is your arguement that you should be able to apply damage to cruisers without needing multiple webs/tp's? Because if so that is quite dumb. You seem to be considering this ship for PVE.. Its a ship with a scram bonus.. i suggest using it for pvp..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1158 - 2014-05-26 00:07:47 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
if you want to kill frigates, try flying a frigate or destroyer.

I'm talking cruisers and battlecruisers. Destroyers and frigates? Good luck...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1159 - 2014-05-26 00:09:37 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
if you want to kill frigates, try flying a frigate or destroyer.

I'm talking cruisers and battlecruisers. Destroyers and frigates? Good luck...


Barghest has no issues applying to BC's..

Even a cruiser takes about 40% missile dps with 1 web and 1 tp...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1160 - 2014-05-26 00:13:16 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Barghest has no issues applying to BC's..
Even a cruiser takes about 40% missile dps with 1 web and 1 tp...

I think you've misunderstood. No one's saying that large missiles should apply 100% damage to cruisers or that large missiles should apply 100% damage with target painters and webs. What we are saying is that despite a higher overall DPS with the Barghest, the Raven Navy Issue can actually apply more damage (both with torpedos and cruise missiles).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.