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[Kronos] Blockade Runner Rebalance

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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#121 - 2014-05-18 14:15:30 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:
Let me put it simple (apparently, Fozzie needs this simplicity very badly):

NOBODY CARES ABOUT BLOCKADE RUNNERS

Those ships have obscene cost, useless options, and pointless strengths.
After this rebalance they keep obscene cost, get more useless options, and receive a buff to pointless strengths.

It's probably a record-setting rebalance in terms of amount of changes per impact on actual game.


I've been using a blockade runner to ferry bits into lowsec since the dawn of time. Hell, i have 2-3 and have never lost one over the course of many years and many MANY thousands of jumps.....including back before they even had covert cloaks.

Excellent ships already, and even better after they all can break 10k m3 and have a utility high.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#122 - 2014-05-18 14:41:50 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:
Let me put it simple (apparently, Fozzie needs this simplicity very badly):

NOBODY CARES ABOUT BLOCKADE RUNNERS

Those ships have obscene cost, useless options, and pointless strengths.
After this rebalance they keep obscene cost, get more useless options, and receive a buff to pointless strengths.

It's probably a record-setting rebalance in terms of amount of changes per impact on actual game.


I care!
Azure Rayl
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2014-05-18 15:54:10 UTC
This change could have been a way to open up the nullsec market. But still no bubble immunity to blockade runners. I guess we shall continue to only see an accasional jump frieghter out here, and a stagnant market :(
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2014-05-18 16:02:55 UTC
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2014-05-18 16:07:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


JFs already move all sized cargos through all space with everything immunity.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#126 - 2014-05-18 16:32:23 UTC
It's true, the cloaked cargo fits much better to the Blockade Runners as they are all about cloaking, then it only makes sense for them to have their cargo holds cloaked and unscannable as well.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#127 - 2014-05-18 16:33:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


When moving extremely high value cargo, you cant be scanned anyway, since you are cloaking and not auto-piloting. The alternative is using a cloaky t3 to move things like t2 bpos, since they can have up to 600k ehp while keeping the covops cloak.

If the non-scannable ability was tied to a module or something, so you could disable it, then you could show people your cargo if you want to autopilot, and not get ganked. When people cant see the cargo, they just roll the dice and gank you, especially since BRs are trivial to gank
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
#128 - 2014-05-18 16:38:11 UTC
I really like the scan immunity on my BR. I don't want to have to cloak all the time while moving stuff through hisec. And cloak doesn't always work with all these NPCs and people flying around the gates.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#129 - 2014-05-18 16:55:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


Thank goodness for paragraph one... And there is always hope that the BR could actually be used to smuggle drugs.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2014-05-18 18:43:37 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


JFs already move all sized cargos through all space with everything immunity.


We're talking real concepts here, not 'your vagabond is bad because 10 of x ship could kill it easily'. A jump freighter cannot 'jump' from a highsec point, directly to another highsec point, and must pass through at least some gates as part of the process. At these points, it can be cargo scanned, which no, it is not immune to, and it can be ganked, something else it is not immune to. But, considering you also said JFs move all sized cargo, I guess I should have realized right off the bat that you were trolling, considering the larger items that even they can't carry.

Fozzie, the cargo scanning bonus should definitely be kept, it's a nice, unique option that can benefit the hauler, but also presents the opportunity for gankers to play roulette.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2014-05-18 19:08:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely.

How is it a useful tool when this is already completely covered by the fact that these ships have covert ops cloaks?
Why does it matter that I can't be cargo scanned if they can't even target me?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#132 - 2014-05-18 19:14:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


I'm training my alt to fly a Recon rather than a Blockade Runner for high-value cargoes since "Transport Roulette" is protected gameplay.

Any comment about giving a role bonus for MWD immunity?

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-05-18 19:45:08 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The velocity bonus doesn't help much, and on all at1 industrials it was awitched to agility which is mountains better on this kind of ship.


Yes, an agility bonus would be more powerful. That doesn't mean it's the best bonus to give the ship.


And why exactly would that be, considering their role is the expedient and covert delivery of cargo? Would it not make far more sense to have a bonus to align time which applies directly to the foundation of its role, rather than something awkwardly specific like speed under covops cloak? The current speed bonuses are only useful if you're traveling through null or wh and need to get out of a bubble.

because they already aling somewhere between cruiser and frig with max cargo and with align times that low you spend most of your time in warp. and with these new warp speeds the only thing going faster than you is an interceptor or the new dramiel.


And what's wrong with that, considering the thing has no offensive or defensive potential to be exploited in the manner of the ships that you're mentioning?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#134 - 2014-05-18 19:53:37 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


JFs already move all sized cargos through all space with everything immunity.

They also cost more than a small moon. Most people in the game don't have personal access to one, despite black frog's availability.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#135 - 2014-05-18 19:55:57 UTC
Can you make my crane black again ??? PLEASE!!!!!!

... What next ??
Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
#136 - 2014-05-18 20:13:39 UTC
CCP FOZZIE i would like you to respond to my question please

As a relative new player to eve when i invest weeks and months training to use a particular ship is this taken into account when you make changes to the ships.

Its like when you invest in a bank you like to see a return on that investment .And when you see all that investment gone at the stroke of a pen you wonder why you invested in the first place isnt that right fozzie.

So can i ask you to explain in detail as your costomer and one who contributes to your employment why you have taking a ship i invested all that time in as it was the best ship to fulfill my needs to being after the kronos patch to being the worst ship in its class that would be most understanding of you.

As it is i am questioning weather it is worth investing time and money in a game which can change things to the extent that all that time and money has been a complete waste .

I would like to understand the reasoning behind making the proweler from being the most sutible ship for my needs in its class to being the worst

(because if it is just that the prowler was being used more and so you nerfed it and boosted the others coz they were not then if that is your reasoning then im quitting the game as i see then there is no point in investying time and money in this game anymore if that your reason )

I would like to hear your reasons please FOZZIe
Sweet Times
Riptide Riot
#137 - 2014-05-18 20:18:44 UTC
if any1 else want to hear fozzies answer please ask him to answer sweet times question
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#138 - 2014-05-18 20:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
JAF Anders wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback so far.

On the subject of bubble immunity, we are of the opinion that adding that bonus to these ships would be far too strong and trivialize the risks of moving medium sized cargos through nullsec space. This isn't really the place for bubble immunity.

And on cargo scanner immunity, I completely agree that the bonus is more powerful (too powerful when combined with everything else) on the Deep Space Transports, and that it can be a liability for some autopiloting BRs. However it can be a useful tool for carrying extremely high value cargos and it fits so perfectly with the thematic role of the Blockade Runners that I am quite hesitant to remove it completely. Having the bonus prevent scanning from NPC customs officers is an idea I like a lot and that we will investigate further.


I'm training my alt to fly a Recon rather than a Blockade Runner for high-value cargoes since "Transport Roulette" is protected gameplay.


Use a t3. Tengu can get 1k cargo, 200k ehp with full passive tank (you can get a bit more if you arent autopiloting) and covops cloak. You can trade rigs for more cargo.

Legion can get 600k ehp, but obviously no cargo expanders on that. Has enough room for t2 bpos though
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2014-05-18 20:27:57 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The velocity bonus doesn't help much, and on all at1 industrials it was awitched to agility which is mountains better on this kind of ship.


Yes, an agility bonus would be more powerful. That doesn't mean it's the best bonus to give the ship.


And why exactly would that be, considering their role is the expedient and covert delivery of cargo? Would it not make far more sense to have a bonus to align time which applies directly to the foundation of its role, rather than something awkwardly specific like speed under covops cloak? The current speed bonuses are only useful if you're traveling through null or wh and need to get out of a bubble.

because they already aling somewhere between cruiser and frig with max cargo and with align times that low you spend most of your time in warp. and with these new warp speeds the only thing going faster than you is an interceptor or the new dramiel.


And what's wrong with that, considering the thing has no offensive or defensive potential to be exploited in the manner of the ships that you're mentioning?

exploited? theres nothing to really be exploited in that respect, but then it becomes a game of "gimme more" and we just keep buffing it because it "can't be exploited". AKA power creep, or a close version of it.

And seeing as they are already plenty fast and agile, you are asking for more without giving a good reason why it is needed. Does another ship in a similar role perform better than it's specialized version, within its specialty? is it incapable or close to impossible to perform its role no matter what the player does with it? is it unreasonably effective in its role?

Nein, ниет, and No.

You have your cake.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2014-05-18 20:46:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone! Here's the details of the Blockade Runner rebalance that we announced in the Fanfest keynote.
These ships were working fairly well, so while we're giving them a pretty significant set of improvements across the board we're keeping their basic role and purpose intact.

Highlights are:
  • They all now have two highslots for a probe launcher or covert cyno alongside the cloak. The Prowler gets a third low.
  • A pretty significant cargohold increase across the whole line. They still have significantly less max cargo than any of the T1 haulers, but they can now all break the 10k threshold with T1 rigs.
  • Replaced the useless tanking bonus with +5% warp speed per level. This means that at Transport Ships level 5 they go 7.5au/s.
  • Their tanks still aren't anything to write home about, but we have given them full T2 resists.



PROWLER

Minmatar Industrial Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Velocity

Transport Ships Bonus per level:
+5% Warp Speed (was the useless tanking bonus)
-20% CPU requirements for Cloaking Devices

Note: Can fit covert ops cloaking devices and covert cynos. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds. Immune to cargo scanning.

Slot layout: 2H, 3M, 3(+1)L; 1 turret, 1 launcher
Fittings: 130 PWG, 230(+5) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-47) / 1500(+94) / 1700(+22)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 75(+25) / 60(+20) / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 90(+10) / 67.5(+16.25) / 25 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1200(+418.75) / 343(+109)s / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185 / 0.49(-0.06) / 11,150,000(+1,150,000) / 7.57s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 245 / 2
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 105(-5)
Cargo Hold: 3500(+250)m3

Let us know what you think!

I think you don't really wanna know what we actually think. All I wanna know is why do you hate Minmatar?

Anyway, this looks a lot like a nerf and not a buff.

Increased warp speed bonus and being immune to cargo scanning is useless to a covert Blockade Runner.

Removed the Shield Booster bonus and then increased the amount of Capacitor and Cap Recharge which makes this good for what?

Decreased the Shield amount and increased the EM / Therm resist effectively destroying the ability to do a good Shield tank with Omni Resistance.

Decreased the Agility and increased the Mass thus making the ship slower, effectively making it easier to target.




DMC

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