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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#661 - 2014-05-14 11:23:06 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i love all the "it has no counter" posts when i'm pretty sure grath pointed out about 20 pages ago the obvious and common counter to these ships.

(hint: he said sensor damps)


Grath is wrong. A pair of unbonused senor damps still leave the ship plenty of safe operating room, and a dedicated sensor damp ship only counters it insofar as a rack of bonused damps counter every. Which, to be fair, they do, but that's not a peculiar weakness.

Dumps work well. Do not want dumps, use ecm or web.
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#662 - 2014-05-14 11:30:25 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

=======================================================================================

GARMUR

Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
25% bonus to missile damage

Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range

Role Bonus:
200% bonus to missile velocity
50% penalty to missile flight time

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 38 PWG, 178 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 680 / 590 / 560
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 400 / 2.05
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.2 / 987000 / 4.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 32

=======================================================================================

It really seems odd that Gallente Frigate V can bonus a long point's range out past the ships base lock range.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#663 - 2014-05-14 11:37:18 UTC
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#664 - 2014-05-14 11:45:27 UTC
Feodor Romanov wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i love all the "it has no counter" posts when i'm pretty sure grath pointed out about 20 pages ago the obvious and common counter to these ships.

(hint: he said sensor damps)


Grath is wrong. A pair of unbonused senor damps still leave the ship plenty of safe operating room, and a dedicated sensor damp ship only counters it insofar as a rack of bonused damps counter every. Which, to be fair, they do, but that's not a peculiar weakness.

Dumps work well. Do not want dumps, use ecm or web.

Again, all a damp or ECM ship will be able to do is escape, they don't have the speed to catch up to the Garmur, but you are another one who seems to be under the illusion that a competent Garmur pilot will let you get in range to scram it.

As I mentioned before, the only ships that would really work are a Loki or Rapier with bonused webs, but I'd hardly call that a viable counter for dealing with a frigate.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#665 - 2014-05-14 12:05:15 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.


Well we will need EFT to know for sure. Thx to extra lows Phantasm can equip more internal nano structures. Besides don't forget 100mn Phantasms Smile. I don't know the exact numbers but won't Sansha on AB be quite immune to missile fire? Huge speed, no sig increase?
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#666 - 2014-05-14 12:09:07 UTC
Very powerful bonuses, but we'll see how they fare compared to the other kiters out there. It's not that the other pirate ships are not extremely potent and hard to counter 1v1 when you're already fighting upward.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#667 - 2014-05-14 12:12:04 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.


Well we will need EFT to know for sure. Thx to extra lows Phantasm can equip more internal nano structures. Besides don't forget 100mn Phantasms Smile. I don't know the exact numbers but won't Sansha on AB be quite immune to missile fire? Huge speed, no sig increase?


It's like tengu 100 mn not more and the acceleration it's not good, the range also of laser is not terrible. You can easily tackle this ship (phantasm) with a sentinel It's absolue not the same problem than mordu's.
And the Phantasm don't have a long disrupt, don't have long range dps don't have high speed.
it's more small sig and tanking.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#668 - 2014-05-14 12:23:58 UTC
Alghara wrote:

It's like tengu 100 mn not more and the acceleration it's not good, the range also of laser is not terrible. You can easily tackle this ship (phantasm) with a sentinel It's absolue not the same problem than mordu's.
And the Phantasm don't have a long disrupt, don't have long range dps don't have high speed.
it's more small sig and tanking.


Honestly I'm not thrilled by 100mn Phantasm. 10 mn can be a lot more useful. Also what Mordus config are we talking about? HML and disrupt? That won't have a lot of dps let alone applied dps. HAM and scram? This is well within medium scorch range... anyway we will need an ingame test to see, but calling Mordus OP is a great exaggeration.
Feodor Romanov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#669 - 2014-05-14 12:30:39 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Feodor Romanov wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i love all the "it has no counter" posts when i'm pretty sure grath pointed out about 20 pages ago the obvious and common counter to these ships.

(hint: he said sensor damps)


Grath is wrong. A pair of unbonused senor damps still leave the ship plenty of safe operating room, and a dedicated sensor damp ship only counters it insofar as a rack of bonused damps counter every. Which, to be fair, they do, but that's not a peculiar weakness.

Dumps work well. Do not want dumps, use ecm or web.

Again, all a damp or ECM ship will be able to do is escape, they don't have the speed to catch up to the Garmur, but you are another one who seems to be under the illusion that a competent Garmur pilot will let you get in range to scram it.

As I mentioned before, the only ships that would really work are a Loki or Rapier with bonused webs, but I'd hardly call that a viable counter for dealing with a frigate.


Competent pilot will not let?!! What kiting expierence do you have? Even the best pilots often lose their kiting ships by faults,errors, blobs, baits and etc.
You do not know how to counter Mordu's ships? Fine you have a bad fantasy, step aside with your OPing and don't let those beautiful and powerful ships to stay in dock, like it is with sisters ships. Personally, I want to fly Mordu's and to hunt them this summer.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#670 - 2014-05-14 12:54:25 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.



Clueless 9/10

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#671 - 2014-05-14 12:59:06 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.



Clueless 9/10

Actually I've tried out the idea of 100mn Phantasm's and unlike a missile Drake or Tengu, it's simply fail.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#672 - 2014-05-14 13:01:45 UTC
Alghara wrote:
It's like tengu 100 mn not more and the acceleration it's not good, the range also of laser is not terrible.

Yes exactly, for these reasons I don't think people will fly 100mn Phantasm's. The ship is very good with a 10mn, trust me I already have a number of fits ready to go. Why compromise all of that just so you can fly in a straight line really fast and not do much else.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#673 - 2014-05-14 13:03:04 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i love all the "it has no counter" posts when i'm pretty sure grath pointed out about 20 pages ago the obvious and common counter to these ships.

(hint: he said sensor damps)


Grath is wrong. A pair of unbonused senor damps still leave the ship plenty of safe operating room, and a dedicated sensor damp ship only counters it insofar as a rack of bonused damps counter every. Which, to be fair, they do, but that's not a peculiar weakness.


Yea, Im totally wrong that a single damp fit condor doesn't ruin that frigates day and drop its lock range to less than a Navy Slicer and that assumes you're running a rig and integrity link.


Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#674 - 2014-05-14 13:05:59 UTC
Feodor Romanov wrote:
Competent pilot will not let?!! What kiting expierence do you have? Even the best pilots often lose their kiting ships by faults,errors, blobs, baits and etc.

I've been flying kiting ships before tiericide when they weren't so powerful. Never been caught by anyone unless they got me at a gate. You must be flying with some fail kiting pilots. The whole point of a kiting ship is that you dictate the engagement.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#675 - 2014-05-14 13:12:45 UTC
So much pen and paper theorecrafting here....

We used to be able to kil nanophoons flying17 m/s , could turn on a dime with torpedoes that reaches 40 km and with NOs that draiend to zero.


THese things whiel strong are not unkillable if the nanophoon was not.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#676 - 2014-05-14 13:14:17 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.



Clueless 9/10

Actually I've tried out the idea of 100mn Phantasm's and unlike a missile Drake or Tengu, it's simply fail.



LEt see. wait 2 months after the expansion hits and comapre what YOUR results will be with your ideas agaisnt what Pursuit of Happyness will achieve. ok? But please do not cry after....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#677 - 2014-05-14 13:15:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
THese things whiel strong are not unkillable if the nanophoon was not.

And the nanophoon was removed from the game for being OP. The amount of tears nano ships produced could have filled an ocean.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#678 - 2014-05-14 13:16:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The cruiser looks decent, but I don't really see the reason why everyone is feeling so worried about it. An interceptor will easily be able to shut it down.

Cassius Invictus wrote:
LoL I see nice use for those ships, but overpowered? Isn't the new Sansha the perfect counter to this? I sometimes hunt in low sec and the typical LS fleet could have trouble with this. But you can simply not engage... with most fights happening at the gates and stations, kitting ships have serious limitations. Enlighten me if I wrong. Besides I mostly fly in WH where those ships would just get blown to pieces...


The Phantasm is going to be great, but people seem to be forgetting that it's speed bonus only applies to AB's. So when it comes to max velocity it isn't actually very fast at all compared to its peers who will be equipped with a MWD.



Clueless 9/10

Actually I've tried out the idea of 100mn Phantasm's and unlike a missile Drake or Tengu, it's simply fail.



LEt see. wait 2 months after the expansion hits and comapre what YOUR results will be with your ideas agaisnt what Pursuit of Happyness will achieve. ok? But please do not cry after....

Sure, i'll be happy to see what you guys come up with. Personally I think a 100mn will not be viable except for in extremely niche applications and is a waste of a good ship imo as the 10mn Phantasm is great. Will be happy to see if I am proved wrong though.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#679 - 2014-05-14 13:40:33 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

LEt see. wait 2 months after the expansion hits and comapre what YOUR results will be with your ideas agaisnt what Pursuit of Happyness will achieve. ok? But please do not cry after....


Although let's be fair and clear about this. Persuit of happiness gets its kills by declaring war on corps in hisec than then using out of corp toons in boosting ships and logistics in order to keep them invulnerable until they are used, thus always keeping the advantage and never actually engaging in a fair fight. PoH also only fights on a gate in mega-tanked T3s, maximising escape possibilities.

Not that I mind, you must play the game as you wish, but let's compare apples with apples, eh?


Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#680 - 2014-05-14 13:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gustav Mannfred
These ships look great, cant wait for them

But I have a few suggestions:

- Limit the missile damage bonus on the Garmour to light missiles and rockets
- Limit the missile damage bonus on the Orthrus to light missiles(if used in RLML) heavy assault and heavy missiles
- Limit the missile damage bonus on the Berghest to heavy missiles(if used in RHML), torpedos and cruise missiles

I think the reason should be clear enought for this change. For example, if you sit in a Barghest and get tackled by an inty, then you just can drop out a mobile depot and refit to light missile launchers and kill the inty with no problems. If you want to fight a inty, then you should bring a smaller ship or use drones( the barghest still can use 7 unbonused rapid light missile launchers)

Another suggestion is to remove one launcher slot on the barghest, but increase the missile damage bonus to 12.5% per level, so it then has 10.05 effective launchers (now it has 8.75), then remove 2 hi-slots and add one med and low slot (6/7/7 slot layout). This allows to choose the tank and still do good damage. For example mission runners would fly this ship more with shield tank and use the low slots for capacitor modules and pvp pilots will fly that ship more with armor tank and use the mids for a lot of ewar/support modules.

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

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