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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#361 - 2014-05-13 03:15:38 UTC
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Somehow not getting that the Battleship is as underwhelming as people say. I personally think its amazing (though I like the torp version with a painter better).


http://i.imgur.com/Z6QCLRV.png


I'm just curious as to how you got those ships on EFT?

Edit: Found it updated today.


Theres a file out already by Namamai on SA.com and Reddit, and now FHC.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#362 - 2014-05-13 03:19:18 UTC
Battleship is fine. FFS fit it with LML an fly it like a glorified Heretic, but with 900dps tank, heavy neut, and drones. Also, Sansha will be a perfect counter to these ships. Scram range bonuses missile boats vs. AB bonused laser boats. This is going to be very fun indeed!

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#363 - 2014-05-13 04:12:45 UTC
Happy to be Amarr!

We don't fly these uggly super fast, super firepowered, with a long range scrambler ships.

Tsss.

Amarr don't fear these things.

Amarr are so strong.

Amarr .... Hum ok.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
stoicfaux
#364 - 2014-05-13 04:37:32 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Well nuts, in the context of PvE, it looks like the Golem is still a better ship than the Barghest (except against a couple of battleships, e.g. Core Port Admiral, where it saves a salvo over the Golem.)

I'll post maths later.

Here's a comparions against various level 4 NPCs. Repairs, regen, or defenders are not modeled. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NZt797WnDfuqDJL-l_8bX_nEgdQjLLWMDDwrZ2JE4-s/edit?usp=sharing

The goal is being able to one shot most/all non-elite NPC cruisers in level 4s using Fury cruise missiles. The Seven Bodyguard is probably the hardest to one short with Fury. All ships use 3xCN BCUs + 1 BCU II. TPs are PWNAGE unless the "Force Single TP Bonus" is set to 1.40 which is a RF TP.

According to EFT:
* the Golem is ~1.4B isk (with a Pithum C MSB) not counting implants
* the CNR is ~1.2B isk (with a Pith C-Type XLSB) not counting implants
* the Bharghest hull will run a billion+ isk at 2,000 isk/LP not counting implants, or 1.2+B isk at 3,000 isk/LP. Plus fittings and implants.

Pro: The Bharghest with two TPs is better against battleships than a "perfect" golem/CNR due to the increased volley damage. Adding more TPs doesn't seem provide any real benefit.

Cons: The Bhargest starts to fall a little behind against elite NPC cruisers and frigates due to some difficultly in applying DPS.


Overall, it's probably a wash in terms of which is "better." If you go with price, the Golem is "best" (looting/salvaging which closes the price gap with the CNR,) plus the Golem has an easier tank, EWar immunity, fast MJD, etc. If you go with looks, the Barghest is probably the best.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#365 - 2014-05-13 04:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Grath Telkin wrote:
Somehow not getting that the Battleship is as underwhelming as people say. I personally think its amazing (though I like the torp version with a painter better).

The 1456 dps is inclusive of drones, overheat and dual +5 implants. On the extreme end, with 4x Faction BCUs, V skills and a pair of +5 implants - you're looking at:

• T2 torpedo launchers with T2 Rage torpedoes ... 1417.5 dps (25.3km range)
• T2 cruise launchers with T2 Fury cruise missiles ... 1093.75 dps (167km range)
• T2 rapid heavy launcher with T2 Fury heavy missiles ... 1260 dps-burst/812 dps-actual (70.8km range)
• Gecko drone ... +123 dps

Realistically, you'd probably run Faction torpedoes, cruise or heavy missiles for better damage application (at least for torpedoes and cruise missiles):

• T2 torpedo launchers with Faction torpedoes ... 1207.5 dps (30.4km range)
• T2 cruise launchers with Faction cruise missiles ... 901.25 dps (222km range)
• T2 rapid heavy missile launchers with Faction heavy missiles ... 1076.25 dps-burst/692.13 dps-actual (94.4km range)
• Gecko drone ... +123 dps

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Phrike Horizon
The Alpha Project
#366 - 2014-05-13 04:52:53 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Well nuts, in the context of PvE, it looks like the Golem is still a better ship than the Barghest (except against a couple of battleships, e.g. Core Port Admiral, where it saves a salvo over the Golem.)

I'll post maths later.

Here's a comparions against various level 4 NPCs. Repairs, regen, or defenders are not modeled. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NZt797WnDfuqDJL-l_8bX_nEgdQjLLWMDDwrZ2JE4-s/edit?usp=sharing

The goal is being able to one shot most/all non-elite NPC cruisers in level 4s using Fury cruise missiles. The Seven Bodyguard is probably the hardest to one short with Fury. All ships use 3xCN BCUs + 1 BCU II. TPs are PWNAGE unless the "Force Single TP Bonus" is set to 1.40 which is a RF TP.

According to EFT:
* the Golem is ~1.4B isk (with a Pithum C MSB) not counting implants
* the CNR is ~1.2B isk (with a Pith C-Type XLSB) not counting implants
* the Bharghest hull will run a billion+ isk at 2,000 isk/LP not counting implants, or 1.2+B isk at 3,000 isk/LP. Plus fittings and implants.

Pro: The Bharghest with two TPs is better against battleships than a "perfect" golem/CNR due to the increased volley damage. Adding more TPs doesn't seem provide any real benefit.

Cons: The Bhargest starts to fall a little behind against elite NPC cruisers and frigates due to some difficultly in applying DPS.


Overall, it's probably a wash in terms of which is "better." If you go with price, the Golem is "best" (looting/salvaging which closes the price gap with the CNR,) plus the Golem has an easier tank, EWar immunity, fast MJD, etc. If you go with looks, the Barghest is probably the best.


You're wonderful for doing all this math and sharing. I was really doubting the damage output of the Barghest in regards to the Golem and CNR.

I hope it's not too much to ask but what do the numbers for a Golem look like with Torps and two TPs vs a Barg with the same?

Either way, these numbers were super helpful!
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-05-13 05:14:59 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Somehow not getting that the Battleship is as underwhelming as people say. I personally think its amazing (though I like the torp version with a painter better).

The 1456 dps is inclusive of drones, overheat and dual +5 implants. On the extreme end, with 4x Faction BCUs, V skills and a pair of +5 implants - you're looking at:

• T2 torpedo launchers with T2 Rage torpedoes ... 1417.5 dps (25.3km range)
• T2 cruise launchers with T2 Fury cruise missiles ... 1093.75 dps (167km range)
• T2 rapid heavy launcher with T2 Fury heavy missiles ... 1260 dps-burst/812 dps-actual (70.8km range)
• Gecko drone ... +123 dps

Realistically, you'd probably run Faction torpedoes, cruise or heavy missiles for better damage application (at least for torpedoes and cruise missiles):

• T2 torpedo launchers with Faction torpedoes ... 1207.5 dps (30.4km range)
• T2 cruise launchers with Faction cruise missiles ... 901.25 dps (222km range)
• T2 rapid heavy missile launchers with Faction heavy missiles ... 1076.25 dps-burst/692.13 dps-actual (94.4km range)
• Gecko drone ... +123 dps

Shame :/

These are Hyperion numbers.. Not Pirate BS numbers :(
Aliath Sunstrike
#368 - 2014-05-13 05:24:24 UTC
I had to login and post on this one. I cannot tell you how long I have waited for this pirate faction to come-out. Missile Skirmishers. Something not a drake. ALL VERY COOL.

I love the philosophy and lore of this. Great work CCP!

o7


Question: Which blend/pirate faction does this leave left to do? Isn't there one more? or was SOE the one?

Continuous player since 2007.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2014-05-13 05:25:02 UTC
Sydious wrote:
For a ship that's supposed to kite, the frigate has a really low lock range.



It's called trade-offs, i.e. the main principle of EvE Idea

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Kira yuno
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2014-05-13 05:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kira yuno
You ever look back and think it was good idea to train gall ships to 5? 4 pirate factions for one race \o/

Edit: 5 if you count SoE
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#371 - 2014-05-13 06:06:20 UTC
I feel that all of them are fairly well balanced the bad capacitor will prevent them from kiting and their mediocre fitting will prevent full usage of slots or full damage setups while also maintaining tank. full DS active fits are not possible without heavy tradeoff in dps
since all their benefit is in their point range bonus which is countered by aforementioned tradeoffs only few people will find use for them

in the short therm people will find that they don't offer much to any benefit to the ships they are currently using combined with the initially high price point I expect low adoption rates
their bad fitting will probably lead to underusage in the long run

TL;DR I don't see many using them their fitting and cap is too bad for their price the only benefit is point range

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Ron Mexxico
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#372 - 2014-05-13 06:29:39 UTC
i think this will make mordus the most powerful and purist race of ships in the universe. i think we'll start to see the barghest take it's throne as the majority of people want to have one seeing how much better it is than all the other races. here's a fit i came up with to prove how much better it is

http://puu.sh/8KnZJ.png
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#373 - 2014-05-13 06:30:42 UTC
Hey Rise,

It's nice idea about this new pirate line.

But the cruiser it's too powerfull.

With this cruiser, you have the speed the weapon range , very good tank, All damage type, Very long range with faction disruptor. You can add some medium neutra and you have small drone.....

When you check the cynabal or vigilant , you have speed or power but not in the same time the range and the tanking.

Also the main problem, they are no E-war against missile.

If you make a fleet of this cruiser with some logi in the back it's about impossible to counter them.


try this fitting :

Orthrus

Low slot :
Ballistic control system II * 3
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium slot :
Large shield Extender II * 2
Adaptive invulnerability Field II
Expérimental 10mn Microwarpdrive I
Domination Warp Disruptor

High slot :
Heavy missile launcher II * 5
Medium Energy Neutraliser II

Rigs slot :
Medium anti-em Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core defense Field Extender I
Medium Ionic Field Projector I

Warrior II * 5

And add some fleet bonus and them, it's completely crazy.

Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#374 - 2014-05-13 06:32:19 UTC
Alghara wrote:
Hey Rise,

It's nice idea about this new pirate line.

But the cruiser it's too powerfull.


Oh man do I look forward to pissing people off with these ships.

It will be... glorious.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#375 - 2014-05-13 06:42:04 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:

Shame :/

These are Hyperion numbers.. Not Pirate BS numbers :(

Now tell me what the Mach does. And the NM. And probably even the Bhal.
Don't compare it to a Vindi which is a pure close range brawl monster.

Then also tell me what range a Hyp does that kind of damage at. And how fast it moves.
And remember the Scram range bonus as well.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#376 - 2014-05-13 06:48:29 UTC
The Mordu's Legion ships as proposed are fine. However...
The Barghest could benefit from a slightly increased damage bonus (+7.5% vs. +5%).

As previously mentioned, I would still like to see a unique trait with these ships - such as the SoE line. I'd originally suggested a change to the reload time, but I think an additional role bonus to ammunition capacity would be preferable.

Garmur ... +25% to missile launcher capacity
Orthrus ... +50% to missile launcher capacity
Barghest ... +100% to missile launcher capacity

The SoE ships have multiple role bonuses, in addition to Covert Ops and logistics capability, Angels have an integrated warp speed bonus, Guristas have an integrated passive shield recharge and Blood Raiders have two race bonuses. Blood Raiders and Sansha also have Marauder-style weapons that result in decreased capacitor use. Mordu's Legion ships aren't the fastest, most agile or have the smallest signature - so a boost to ammunition capacity would distinguish this line from everything else.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
JetCord
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#377 - 2014-05-13 07:01:23 UTC
i was wondering since the test server is patched yet for us to test these new ships plus changes to other ships that has been done - is the 3rd June would be enough time for us to test them all?

its like 3 weeks away
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#378 - 2014-05-13 07:07:56 UTC
The Mordu's Legion stealth ships should really feature Covert Ops cloaking capability.
But this is already a SoE trait and it wouldn't make sense to include it in another line. However...

Mordu's Legion are mercenaries, and Lockheed Martin's "Skunkworks" has been referenced as inspiration for the stealthy designs. As with the F-117, while they may not be the fastest or most agile - they should be the stealthiest. In lieu of another role bonus, here's another proposal for consideration:

Garmur ... 32m signature » 28m(-4) signature
Orthrus ... 120m signature » 100m(-20) signature
Barghest ... 370m signature » 320m(-50) signature

Comments welcome.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#379 - 2014-05-13 07:10:40 UTC
As much as I like the new ships etc I really wish they weren't so focused on kiting. There is so much of the meta around kiting etc that I'd like to see more brawling thrown into the mix. Twisted

Get more commitment from your pilots!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#380 - 2014-05-13 07:11:27 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The Mordu's Legion ships as proposed are fine. However...
The Barghest could benefit from a slightly increased damage bonus (+7.5% vs. +5%).

As previously mentioned, I would still like to see a unique trait with these ships - such as the SoE line. I'd originally suggested a change to the reload time, but I think an additional role bonus to ammunition capacity would be preferable.

Garmur ... +25% to missile launcher capacity
Orthrus ... +50% to missile launcher capacity
Barghest ... +100% to missile launcher capacity

The SoE ships have multiple role bonuses, in addition to Covert Ops and logistics capability, Angels have an integrated warp speed bonus, Guristas have an integrated passive shield recharge and Blood Raiders have two race bonuses. Blood Raiders and Sansha also have Marauder-style weapons that result in decreased capacitor use. Mordu's Legion ships aren't the fastest, most agile or have the smallest signature - so a boost to ammunition capacity would distinguish this line from everything else.


Or give them a huge cargo! More cap Boosters yeah! More loot hooray!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup