Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think the fact that we all know where we all live will mean that there will be plenty of big w-space fights.

I have no clue how you guys pick targets so I wont attempt to presume anything.

However I do know several who have big spreadsheets over every c6 and c5 system in game and listing activity level in these and how often they are active. What days are usually farmed etc. Then hunting these targets down and setting logoff trap is easy. Just find their entrance (which they often provide themself when hauling loot).

I am deeply sorry for personal reference but I can see posts by you and your friend (we all know The One who loses 10 tengus a month) on almost every topic on everything, when your pvp record, the place you live in, and your statements clearly show that you have no idea what you are talking about. You are a troll Sir even if u don't realize it. I'm sorry to say that pseudo-philosophical gibberish is not an equivalent of experience.

I'm also far from predicting the future of WH after this change, I would just wish that Devs could find the will to survey this issue and change it back if does not work as intended. Because the intention is to stimulate conflict in WH and not to make it the farmers heaven, right?

Have not lived outside c5/6 space in a year so I take it I am approved to reply to this :P The issue you point out (and rightly so) is not directly related to the npc kill api. However the npc kill api have been used as a "quickfix" or hack to counter a much bigger issue. The ability for people (both pvpers and nonpvpers) to close all entrances and farm in peace while only keeping an eye on the passivly updating discovery scanner that notify when someone might be coming. Thats the real issue. I've stated this in other threads aswell but my plea to ccp (CCP FoxFour pls bring this on to game designers ) is that the spawning of wormholes needs to happen without a player warping to them. I know this would lead to such abomination as k162 on testserver but right now every k162 is caused by a player and its predictable and exploited.

My argument is that the npc kill api need to be dealt with correctly according to the ruling guidelines that ccp deal with broken mechanics regardless of what gameplay it may encourage.

However if CCP really want to keep wspace unkown they need to introduce a much larger margin of probability to mass and life of wormholes. Right now all mechanics are basicly known, mapped and as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.

I am not offended. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps 3 years of living in w-space does not qualify me as living in w-space.

What prevents what I would call "reasonable fights" (by which I mean limited sized skirmishes where both sides are expecting to fight) is the hegemony enjoyed right now by merciless roll-and-gank fleets.

In w-space there is no batphone, no easy access to reinforcements. The largest force will, on the whole, win. The defenders are never the largest force and rarely even in pvp fit.

That's not a fight, it's an execution of innocents.

Yeah, how dare you expect those farmers to have more than 3 capitals, aka max you can fit through the entrance in one go, in their home. And then also expect them to refit to pvp on a mobile depot or even their own damn carrier right next to them?

Better than that, do as some of the few PVPers in this topic that actually post good reasonings said:

Remove instant appearance of sites in the scanner window.

Quite simple to achieve: only Anomalies would appear instantly both in the Probe Scanner window and at the Sensor Overlay in space. Signatures wouldn't, as it was before Oddyssey. To find out if there are (new) signatures, players have to launch probes, just like it was before. Once a signature is at 100%, it would appear in the Sensor Overlay along with the Anomalies. This way the Sensor Overlay would still make sense (and not be "wasted" effort) and still allow PVP hunters to try to find PVEers by using the D-Scan at low angles pointed at these green squares in space, as well as anyone that wants to warp to these sites by clicking them in space.

This would make everyone who wants to do anything in WH-space have to use scanners (D-Scan, probes) to do their stuff and ensure a relative safety, just like it should. PVPers would use their D-Scan and Combat Probes to find people to shoot at. PVEers would have to launch Probes to see if there are new connections. It isn't much of a change, it would be like before Oddysey but without API NPC kills and with a pretty and useful Sensor Overlay.

I think I can say it wouldn't change things at all on K-space, so that wouldn't be a problem. Removing the API NPC kills is neccesary since it is a mistake in the design, a flaw, and shouldn't be brough back unless very good reasons appear. At the same time, remove instant appearance of sites in the scanner window so that everyone relies solely on scanners. I think that would put the balance in a sweet spot, more fair for everyone. And I'm sure PVEers won't have any problem with having to launch a few probes to see if there are new sigs.

Remove instant pop-up of signatures
Remove API
Add in Glimpse Probes

Site-runners keep a scanner with combats out over the system
Hunters have to launch a probe and wait 5 minutes for intel

Every compromises, everybody is happy.

Not intending to be obtuse, but CCP didn't intend that wormhole space be colonised. I don't recall them indicating whether they are pleased or disturbed that all of the mechanics of wormholes and system effects have been calculated, removing the unknown; players have spoken out though, confirming nothing is hidden anymore.

There are times where specific mechanics and gameplay design trump realism and original intentions. If they truly wish to properly handle this information, they would remove the blanket availability of the API data and only provide the data via character-specific API keys, which reported information strictly based on W-space system location, regardless of login status. This of course would be a much greater load on their API web front-end and possible the back-end as well, as wormhole groups cooperated with one another to build a database containing the same information they would be removing by this change. There would be multiple calls to characters in the same systems as well, additionally adding to the demand.

So yes, the change may make sense from an original intentions perspective, as well as from a "reality" perspective, to abuse that word. But then, so also would removing cloaked players from Local and not reporting players in Local who enter via wormhole, to pick a couple of examples from a pool of MANY such details, most of which are more negative to everyone involved than what we have now.

At this point, the "right" thing to do is what I suggested above. It would initially hide activity while the players' database was being developed and scouts were being seeded, but in the end, just as with wormhole mechanics, we would have the information through working together to get it. CCP would expend some effort, players would expend some effort, load on their systems would increase, and the end result wouldn't change except more ill feelings toward CCP.

The "best" thing to do is probably just leave it alone.

What is feared that CCP will do is just cut the data feed and do nothing else, after pretending to listen to our concerns. Some of us are hoping this won't happen.

Can I invite CCP FoxFour to "roll fleet", which will have 20 hours to check the WH in search purposes? In order to understand what statistics need for WH peoples