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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#861 - 2014-04-22 19:24:37 UTC
Fr3akwave wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

So since i have been bringing my drone skills up to all 5 in the past months, you are now telling me that training combat drone operation V was 100% waste of time because i would have gotten it anyway? Thank you very much.

The only reason those people suggested that is "Can i haz free SP, i have scout drone op V but not combat drone op V". I also don't understand this decision in relation to the bonus of the skills. Scout drone op and combat drone op are completely different bonuses and a drone range bonus is used as a base for rebalancing a drone damage skill? What's gonna be next? Getting a free turret DPS skill because you have trained a locking range one that sounds remotely similar?

I also recommended training combat drone op V to friends who then did it after the blog was first released without following this threadnaught...
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch.

Guess it is not a good idea to follow those "early" announcements too quickly... things apparently might turn out to be a loss for you.

Also i believe that this is worth an edit in the original blog post if that has not happened yet, since more and more people will fall for it. EDIT: And indeed there is no warning about it yet. Wasted skillpoints ftw.
It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care?
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
#862 - 2014-04-22 19:52:58 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Fr3akwave wrote:
...
It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care?


That's why those changes are announced in advance, right?

The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#863 - 2014-04-22 19:57:52 UTC
Fr3akwave wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Fr3akwave wrote:
...
It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care?


That's why those changes are announced in advance, right?

The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P
Actually, yes, that IS why they were announced in advance. In addition to allowing people to prepare, they are also given in advance for feedback reasons, which is how the oversight of current T2 drone users without CDO V was caught.

It's worth noting though that whole game changes aren't balanced around individual use cases though, so really what you individually do means absolutely nothing in the face of the change as a whole.
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
#864 - 2014-04-23 07:20:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Fr3akwave wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Fr3akwave wrote:
...
It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care?


That's why those changes are announced in advance, right?

The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P
Actually, yes, that IS why they were announced in advance. In addition to allowing people to prepare, they are also given in advance for feedback reasons, which is how the oversight of current T2 drone users without CDO V was caught.

It's worth noting though that whole game changes aren't balanced around individual use cases though, so really what you individually do means absolutely nothing in the face of the change as a whole.


Oh my, skill requirements changed! Afair, there have been several cases of "being able to use before but not after rebalance", and all of them have been 1. given enough time to fix or 2. solved otherwise. Technically I don't have all the requirements for HACs, yet I can fly them.

On the topic of clone costs and therefore off topic:
More efficient = better, i don't give a **** about the costs and the people thinking the same way are most likely everyone but but a fraction of the player base. Those people who do feel bad about it probably make excessive use of the flawed mechanic of pod-express, right? Instant teleportation to random station getting expensive!? Bad for you, maybe the whole concept is bad for the game as a whole, but thats a whole different discussion for a different thread.
Riddick RichardB
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#865 - 2014-04-23 21:07:25 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
... Giving Drones an Assist.


Was expecting lowsec drone assist. Pirate Please for the love of yarr work this in with the rest of the drone changes.
Brizzi
SilverMoon Inc
#866 - 2014-04-24 02:38:49 UTC
What About mining drones ?

If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing'
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#867 - 2014-04-24 07:24:04 UTC
Riddick RichardB wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
... Giving Drones an Assist.


Was expecting lowsec drone assist. Pirate Please for the love of yarr work this in with the rest of the drone changes.

Asked and answered - about 20 pages back. Lowsec will never get drone assist due to criminal flagging.

Brizzi wrote:
What About mining drones ?

If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing'

This has also been asked many times but as yet I haven't seen a Dev response.
Good point, hopefully your asking will get an official response.


It's the little things, often missed or forgotten that can make all the difference.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Riddick RichardB
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#868 - 2014-04-24 10:32:10 UTC
Thanks Sgt Ocker, I missed that post

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec?


The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change.

Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles.


Just pointing out, this is EXACTLY what a group of lowsec pirates wants to happen. It's not like a new player getting nuked by Concord because he assisted drones to a mission buddy who went and earned himself a criminal flag. We're quite aware that we are engaging on a gate in lowsec, and gate gun agro is eminent.

The confusing part is having a game mechanic that works in nullsec, works in lowsec IF the target is a criminal/wartarget (won't earn suspect flag), and then randomly DOESN'T work in order to "protect" the pilots from the action they are deliberately trying to initiate...
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#869 - 2014-04-26 10:12:35 UTC
how about an increase on sentry scoop range?
Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2014-04-26 20:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jebediah Phoenix
Right, so I've just wasted a week training combat drone operation to level V when I could've trained scout drone operation, a skill I'll eventually train to level 5 anyway, for the exact same benefit in half the time? Thanks for making the original dev post clear and wasting the past week on my training queue o/
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#871 - 2014-04-27 20:33:37 UTC
I haven't replied to this thread in about thirty pages, but I got some positive feedback on my original response, so I decided to post a more developed proposal over in F&I. I am aware of course, that my proposals probably will not make it into the game, but for what it is worth:

My thread in F&I

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#872 - 2014-04-27 21:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Wohoo!! Finally, a Drones revamp! =D

As a drone user, I like the changes and how you managed to make everything fit and balanced. I could start listing all changes, but I'll just say I like them all and find them logical. Little question: so Curators are completely losing their falloff? Wouldn't they better keep a bit of it? I think I didn't understand that very well.

Now, after this Dev Blog, the Pirate ships rebalance, the 6 new misterious ships, the Industry revamp... I am REALLY excited and looking forward to the Summer Expansion! It's like if you decided to put everything I wanted into a single expansion. Yay!

EDIT: initial glee cooling down, I haven't seen any mention to the Drone Interface. Are you planning to update it to be more easily used and red in a close future? Not necessary in this Summer Expansion, but perhaps in the next one.
UU0113
Biologische Gefaehrdung
#873 - 2014-04-28 16:30:54 UTC
Quote:
That means that on average, all drones will be gaining about 33% more base damage...
Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/giving-drones-an-assist/

An example (according to the DroneRevamp Excel sheet):

Warrior II
Explosive damage increase from 15 to 20 = 33,33%

Bouncer II
Explosive damage increase from 50 to 64 = 28%

Did I missunderstood something here?
Gefel
Drowning In Drones Inc
#874 - 2014-04-28 20:29:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles...

Thanks!
Stan Blake
Doshirak Ltd.
#875 - 2014-04-29 10:14:43 UTC
Gefel wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles...

Thanks!

Yeah where's my SP dude?!
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#876 - 2014-04-29 20:47:48 UTC
Why did this thread get un-stickied? It's still relevant to the upcoming expansion.

CCP also hasn't responded to many of the concerns, so I'm going to re-iterate one of my own:

It's obvious that by making T2 sentries do the same damage as T1, CCP is trying to make drones more like turrets, where the only advantage in DPS (all other factors being equal) that T2 guns get over T1 is in the specialization skill, for a maximum of a 10% increase. T2 sentries now have a maximum 10% increase in damage over T1, after several months of training for it.

However, this change completely neglects one of the most important benefits of T2 guns: T2 ammo. T2 ammo gives a significant increase over T1 ammo in some specific stat (usually either range, dps, or tracking). With drones, there's no such thing as ammo. Currently, the "T2 ammo" benefit is rolled into having the T2 drone, so a 30% or whatever increase in DPS over the T1 drones makes perfect sense.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#877 - 2014-05-01 13:14:42 UTC
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Right, so I've just wasted a week training combat drone operation to level V when I could've trained scout drone operation, a skill I'll eventually train to level 5 anyway, for the exact same benefit in half the time? Thanks for making the original dev post clear and wasting the past week on my training queue o/



This, And yet Tilapia spent so many posts trying to tell us how there was no waste of time.

I saw this change too late... when you set a skill to train for a week, and then only get ot use 4" more DPS for a few weeks before it becomes irrelevant, when another skill could have been trained, is a massive loss.

Some people have apparently never heard of opporotunity cost
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#878 - 2014-05-01 14:32:40 UTC
Gefel wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles...

Thanks!


Not empty quoting
Josef Djugashvilis
#879 - 2014-05-03 19:46:03 UTC
Brizzi wrote:
What About mining drones ?

If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing'


Mining drones...

They have them in the game?

I trained quite a lot of drones skills some time ago, so I am used to adapting to the 'latest' drone tweaks and being ready for the next lot of drone tweaks.

It would be nice if CCP did some work on drones then just left the darned things alone for a while.

Onward, ever onward.

This is not a signature.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#880 - 2014-05-04 17:28:33 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Why did this thread get un-stickied? It's still relevant to the upcoming expansion.

CCP also hasn't responded to many of the concerns, so I'm going to re-iterate one of my own:

It's obvious that by making T2 sentries do the same damage as T1, CCP is trying to make drones more like turrets, where the only advantage in DPS (all other factors being equal) that T2 guns get over T1 is in the specialization skill, for a maximum of a 10% increase. T2 sentries now have a maximum 10% increase in damage over T1, after several months of training for it.

However, this change completely neglects one of the most important benefits of T2 guns: T2 ammo. T2 ammo gives a significant increase over T1 ammo in some specific stat (usually either range, dps, or tracking). With drones, there's no such thing as ammo. Currently, the "T2 ammo" benefit is rolled into having the T2 drone, so a 30% or whatever increase in DPS over the T1 drones makes perfect sense.


This is a good point.

If we're finally acknowledging drones as a primary weapon system, the relative power should include the nature of T2 ammo bonuses as well. (Would also be interesting to make drones scriptable for speed, tracking or dps)