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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

First post First post First post
Author
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1101 - 2014-04-17 07:29:46 UTC
With regards to the remote comparison of station's installation costs for industry jobs, will we be able to have sort of favorites (ie. stations we always want to compare to the current location) or will it be region/constellation/system-based only?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Theo Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1102 - 2014-04-17 07:29:50 UTC
Since it seems intended that we start storing valuable items in POSes are we going to be able to use them efficiently while not offlining their defences and are CCP going to fix the weapon systems associated with Caldari and Gallentee POSes.

Also is anything going to be done about wardec fees as it will cost far less to wardec small corps poses than that of larger groups. The wardec fee passively makes the larger groups assets more protected.
Oxide Ammar
#1103 - 2014-04-17 07:36:45 UTC
If they are ******* removing the standing requirements for anchoring POS I demand removing the need to buy stupid charters of faction I don't and they don't give **** about my standing toward them....if CCP have the balls and analogy since they are screwing everything around like this, they should remove this.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1104 - 2014-04-17 07:53:49 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

On the other hand, I happily grind faction standings because I know it gives (or used to give) an advantage over other players who will be more restricted in their choice of POS location. Standings requirements add significant gameplay, there are even corporations based on giving people the benefits of standings:

  • Estel Arador corp services
  • Imiarr Timshae's "The Standings Correction Agency"
  • various POS-erection agents who join the corp, boost the standings, then leave the corp once your POS is anchored


Just because you find them annoying doesn't mean they don't add meaning to the game.
Kaius Fero
#1105 - 2014-04-17 07:59:32 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
If they are ******* removing the standing requirements for anchoring POS I demand removing the need to buy stupid charters of faction I don't and they don't give **** about my standing toward them....if CCP have the balls and analogy since they are screwing everything around like this, they should remove this.

Or better.. fuk hi sec and turn everything into null. I already have the feeling that I'm playing a prison sim where everything is based on scams, gank &sh1t. Soon as you undock/exit your cell.. expect that you will be raped and fukt up. We need more lube, not science.

Anselmo & The Illegals

Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2014-04-17 08:22:31 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

On the other hand, I happily grind faction standings because I know it gives (or used to give) an advantage over other players who will be more restricted in their choice of POS location. Standings requirements add significant gameplay, there are even corporations based on giving people the benefits of standings:

  • Estel Arador corp services
  • Imiarr Timshae's "The Standings Correction Agency"
  • various POS-erection agents who join the corp, boost the standings, then leave the corp once your POS is anchored


Just because you find them annoying doesn't mean they don't add meaning to the game.

I agree with what you are saying to an extent. But the manner in which you have to gain those standings - missions - is indefensible. If CCP introduced tags for standings I would have no problem with standings at all. But I refuse to grind and mechanics which force me to are bad.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1107 - 2014-04-17 08:24:39 UTC
Kaius Fero wrote:
We need more lube, not science.

You're not even getting science. Invention changes aren't until autumn or winter.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#1108 - 2014-04-17 08:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

Read again please. I stated two conditions and you are focusing on only one of them.

Bumping and ganking do add to gameplay, at least in my opinion. They are also fun for at least one party involved.
Oxide Ammar
#1109 - 2014-04-17 08:42:16 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

Read again please. I stated two conditions and you are focusing on only one of them.

Bumping and ganking do add to gameplay, at least in my opinion.


Working towards raising faction standing was a gameplay and they simply removed it, it's not just because it was gameplay with NPCs means to remove it and leave bumping and ganking alone.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1110 - 2014-04-17 08:44:58 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

Bumping and ganking do add to gameplay, at least in my opinion. They are also fun for at least one party involved.


Standing grind also adds to gameplay: It gives standing for the POS, it gives LP to exchange for items and subsequently ISK, it gives mission runner hunters a chance for a shiny kill. Missions are also fun or at least a good pastime for many players. So... with the grind 2 parties win over your "1 side wins in ganks". We should remove ganks, as it is providing an inferior amount of fun compared to missions. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1111 - 2014-04-17 08:59:48 UTC
I do hope they are looking at a full mission overhaul now for maybe the winter release since standings grind is no longer as necessary (though it still gives access to higher mission levels, better refining etc)
Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1112 - 2014-04-17 09:04:14 UTC
Simili wrote:
...I would really like to know what' the average number of concurent builds per person (yes, person, not character) for people that are builders (not just someone building once in a while)....


Currently (with 4 chars having their slots empty right now due to relocating):

29 Invention
27 Copying
65 ME
20 PE
122 Manufacturing

Regarding the removal of extra materials and the resulting explosion in need of PI goods for default T2 (-4ME) BPCs i wonder, if it is possible to just make all "higher" materials (i.e. non-minerals/ice-products) be unaffected by waste? In some way the entire idea of "waste" in the current system is flawed. I mean how the hell would a ship come to need a second pair of thrusters for manufacturing? oO
Waste makes sense for basic materials that are "processed" while building more complex stuff, not for finished components.

Is there going to be a dedicated blog with details on the changes for material need (+waste) and how the removal of extra materials is balanced (in respect to waste)?

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#1113 - 2014-04-17 09:05:53 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

Read again please. I stated two conditions and you are focusing on only one of them.

Bumping and ganking do add to gameplay, at least in my opinion. They are also fun for at least one party involved.


I agree with.... both of you.

The current standing mechanic was a bit crappy. For a larger corp it's pretty hard to get the right standings and for Industry char's who maybe did one mission and messed up corps standings it was a nightmare. Still, I believe they were an important factor in owning a POS and provided an interesting dynamic. For example, your POS being attacked during a war was a big deal if you didn't have the standings to simply take it down and put it up again. It required you to work towards that goal and plan carefully. It used to be an intelligent strategic decision.

I think it should have been reworked to something more sensible... something that encourages INTERACTION and GROUP activity. Maybe allow faction standings to be shared more easily, maybe add tags like with sec status, maybe lower the requirement or allow more ways to raise faction standings that the corp could do as a group. Maybe all of the above but complete removal of those requirements is absurd.

The sand is being drained away from the sandbox. That's all I'm saying. Eve is slowly starting to look like a theme park with no barriers of entry, no cooperation or interaction required to achieve serious results or goals.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1114 - 2014-04-17 09:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
We should probably wait to see how the 'Teams' aspect will work out, standings may still be important some way, just not for the initial standing up the tower.

ed: standings may well affect the amount of tax you pay on jobs at your station, based on the aggregated standings of the team. Tha t way a good team with good standings will be much more beneficial, encouraging co-op S&I.
Aeonidis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1115 - 2014-04-17 09:28:40 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I'll ask again in a different way.

Why are you removing Standings as a requirement? The blog says you are but isn't clear on the why.

In my opinion, it is an un-fun mechanic that adds nothing to gameplay. It also hinders players from becoming industrialists.

Plus, a POS will (probably) no longer be essential for industry.


So we should remove everything from the game that is "un-fun"? What about miner bumping? Suicide ganking? Those are definitely un-fun for me.

Read again please. I stated two conditions and you are focusing on only one of them.

Bumping and ganking do add to gameplay, at least in my opinion. They are also fun for at least one party involved.


I agree with.... both of you.

The current standing mechanic was a bit crappy. For a larger corp it's pretty hard to get the right standings and for Industry char's who maybe did one mission and messed up corps standings it was a nightmare. Still, I believe they were an important factor in owning a POS and provided an interesting dynamic. For example, your POS being attacked during a war was a big deal if you didn't have the standings to simply take it down and put it up again. It required you to work towards that goal and plan carefully. It used to be an intelligent strategic decision.

I think it should have been reworked to something more sensible... something that encourages INTERACTION and GROUP activity. Maybe allow faction standings to be shared more easily, maybe add tags like with sec status, maybe lower the requirement or allow more ways to raise faction standings that the corp could do as a group. Maybe all of the above but complete removal of those requirements is absurd.

The sand is being drained away from the sandbox. That's all I'm saying. Eve is slowly starting to look like a theme park with no barriers of entry, no cooperation or interaction required to achieve serious results or goals.



Refining is getting a major nerf. Mineral compression is going away completely. instead there will only be 2 viable ways to move huge amounts of trit around in any sensible fashion. Rorqual->JF in Low/Null -or- Compression Array ->Freighter ->Station in High. Post patch no one is going to be shipping trit in an industrial that does any kind of capital production. Its going to have to stay in compressed rock form till it hits it final destination and then refined there with a specialized toon. Since Compression Arrays will be able to be anchored anywhere in High it only stands to reason that CCP needs to have the veld miners be able to use those arrays by also being able to compress their ore for logistics purposes. If all the veld miners had to suddenly start grinding standing to Anchor a stick what do you think would happen to the trit market and then New Eden industry as a whole? If the refining and mineral compression changes were happening at different times they might not have to do away with standings. My guess is that all this is leading to POS code changes down the road but they cant rewrite everything at once so some sacrifices have to be made to have the game at least be functional.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#1116 - 2014-04-17 09:43:56 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:

The sand is being drained away from the sandbox. That's all I'm saying. Eve is slowly starting to look like a theme park with no barriers of entry, no cooperation or interaction required to achieve serious results or goals.


Barriers of entry are more of a themepark trait, not sandbox. There is nothing sandboxy about having to grind through a billion quests to unlock the ability for your character to set up a factory.
nXus
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1117 - 2014-04-17 09:44:41 UTC
Changes seem interesting. Mixing things up now and again keeps things fresh.

The only real concern I have is around lack of offices in Research Stations.

Currently you have lots of research pos's in systems with stations lacking any research facilities. But their BPOs can still be locked down in station and researched via a POS. Essentially the POS's have expanded the number of useful research stations for corps to lock down BPOs.

Ok so we need to move those BPO's now. No problem. Unlock vote, move BPOs.
DOH! no offices free :(

Timeline

1) Prior to upgrade, all offices in stations with research facilities rented. Office rental prices sky rocket.

2) Those that miss out, can no longer keep BPO's in corp, and have to move BPO's to personal hangars due to no Lock down vote without corp office.

3) Person with BPOs in their personal hanger goes AWOL due to some RL issue etc. Corp loses access to BPOs.
Starting to sound a bit risky with station researching.

It would be interesting to see just how many corps are researching in/from NPC stations currently and whether the Research stations will be able to handle that move. I'm predicting they will not.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#1118 - 2014-04-17 09:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Regarding the following bullet point from the recent industry dev blog,

Quote:
"Copy time on all blueprints is going to be slightly shorter than the time required to build from that blueprint, providing a low(er) risk option to build at POS for those who wish to do so."


, does this mean that blueprints that at the moment take a very long time to copy are going to have that time reduced, for example some mining crystals (E.g. Arkonor) take an age to copy (as you must if you want to invent with them) compared to the length of time it takes to actually build one, or does it mean that manufacturing time is going to be increased to more closely match the copy time?
WOHEHIV
outer space pirates
#1119 - 2014-04-17 10:00:13 UTC
Quote:
Research equipment: items used for science jobs

.....
Datacores: sink used in Invention and Reverse Engineering jobs
......


to consolidate the usage and need of datacores too ?
i think it would be worth having a look again at them.


Quote:
Extra Materials, the fifth wheel
......


Elite Drone AI, the sixth wheel

to redefine the usage of them ?
Oxide Ammar
#1120 - 2014-04-17 10:11:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:

The sand is being drained away from the sandbox. That's all I'm saying. Eve is slowly starting to look like a theme park with no barriers of entry, no cooperation or interaction required to achieve serious results or goals.


Barriers of entry are more of a themepark trait, not sandbox. There is nothing sandboxy about having to grind through a billion quests to unlock the ability for your character to set up a factory.


Do COSMOS mission and you will have the enough standing to anchor POS in a week or two maximum like I did, so what the hell billion quests you are talking about ? since you don't know nothing about standing please don't contribute to this thread. If you are pulling statements like this out from your ass then don't.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.