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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Goonswarm Federation
#201 - 2014-04-15 17:03:26 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Riela Tanal wrote:
You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.

what ones are worth more than like 20m isk besides supercaps

T2 BPOs.

To that, I say just remove T2 BPOs.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

#202 - 2014-04-15 17:04:21 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
But like you say, it's a good thing. Having to grind a completely unrelated activity just to be good at industry was ridiculously silly.

But we are still going to have to do that, as people will need standing for station refining unless they setup a POS. If this was the reason for the change, then surely the next logical step will be for standings to be taken out of consideration for station refining also.

Nah. it just means that those who want to do it on a large scale will get a POS; those who just need to do it occasionally (say, to compact their loot) will most likely be in a profession where they'll have those standings.

Having the NPC-provided service be worse or more cumbersome is a good thing — it provides a meaning to actually putting in the effort of maintaining your own refinery.
Mercenary Coalition
#203 - 2014-04-15 17:04:39 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Riela Tanal wrote:
You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.

what ones are worth more than like 20m isk besides supercaps


10 Run BPO BS, BPC, Dread/Carrier BPC, T2 BPC ... shall I continue?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

#204 - 2014-04-15 17:05:32 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Xaniff wrote:

2. I predict there will be even more abandoned POSes out hogging all the spaces next to the moons. There needs to be some mechanic for these to be abandoned and destroyed in a reasonable amount of time after running out of fuel and failing to be maintained (like the secure containers that are lost, whether they hold goods or not).


Yeah, that's a good point, we'll note that one down.


If you can do this, you will make a lot of wormholers very happy to Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

#205 - 2014-04-15 17:05:47 UTC
Mostly good stuff! Two questions/concerns:

Question: now that we'll be able to anchor anywhere regardless of standings...can we also anchor POSes anywhere without needing a moon? (Brah can hope, at least).

Concern: BPOs in POSes...makes this industrialist veeeeery uncomfortable. I'm not concerned about wardecs as much as corp theft. Why make an 'Easy' button for corp thefts like that. Unless you have another trick up your sleeve.

Snarky comment: the moment I die, my consciousness wakes up on the other side of the universe in seconds...but I can't transmit a blueprint for a bullet across the street! I know, I know. :gameplay:. Still annoying and silly.
Circle-Of-Two
#206 - 2014-04-15 17:05:55 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Boltorano wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
how on earth are ~serious industrialists~ complaining that they might have a billion in bpos in a pos

it's an empire pos you get 24h notice before anyone can shoot it so you can vaccumn them all out and even if you don't, it's only a billion isk


I had over 40b in BPOs researching at a single pos at one point, and even then it was hard to justify the cost of fuel. If the BPOs need to be in the labs, that sort of operation is only 24 hours without the right people being able to log in away from complete disaster.

I have over 100b of bpos technically in a pos right now, obviously I will move around which ones are where but for anything short of supercap bpos it's hardly a big deal to put it at risk.


I don't outright disagree with this change, but suggesting that profitable research farms operate with only "a billion in BPOs" is just silly.
#207 - 2014-04-15 17:06:43 UTC
I'm not happy that my faction standings that I worked so hard for are now useless. Did you guys give any thought to the effects on mission runners who were making a business out of POS standings? Or to mission runners in general? Basically, standings are worthless at this point. In effect, they are nothing more than a penalty on those with bad standings, as there is only one remaining benefit -- access to L4s for faction standings of 5+. All other standings above that number are quite literally useless save for the bonus bpc's (big whoop) and a reduction in taxes for trading (also big whoop for everyone but serious traders).
Goonswarm Federation
#208 - 2014-04-15 17:06:53 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Riela Tanal wrote:
You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.

what ones are worth more than like 20m isk besides supercaps


10 Run BPO BS, BPC, Dread/Carrier BPC, T2 BPC ... shall I continue?

under 10m, like 20-50m, under 10m except probably jf and blops and marauders which run at most like 100m

so yes, please continue proving bpcs are simply not a real theft target

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Brotherhood of Spacers
#209 - 2014-04-15 17:07:03 UTC
What about altering the role of Supply Chain Management?

That way people can still keep their BPOs where they are presently, but if they train that skill then they can initiate the build in a station with less activity and not pay the full 14% (for example).



Prometheus Allegiance
#210 - 2014-04-15 17:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Quazal Atreides
Can i ask my quetsions again!

How big will the RAMs be given they are 100x more required per bpc!.

conider

Anshar requires 40 ram if you saying that this will be multiplied by 100 and then .95 (the damage per run) we will be talking about 3800 ram per anshar run
And at 4m3 per one that will require 15200m3

Can i please have an answer on this

Finally what will happen to our existing ram will the all be multiplied by 100x

Still the only person to offer corp creation free of charge. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=35634#post35634 Created over 200 was 3rd on the all time corporation job history on eve-board. This service is in stasis due to personal game time...

Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2014-04-15 17:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Allison A'vani
- Didn't realize you were talking about BPCs in a POS-
Goonswarm Federation
#212 - 2014-04-15 17:08:31 UTC
Allison A'vani wrote:
Actually, most module BPOs with decent PE/ME research are worth quite a bit more than 20m.

yeah except we're talking about copies, not bpos

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Amarr Empire
#213 - 2014-04-15 17:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadl
Weaselior wrote:
Querns wrote:
On a related note:

The removal of standings for anchoring POS makes it trivial to evade destruction of your POS. Right now, if you want to move your POS to a new corporation upon wardec, it takes seven (7) days for standings to promulgate to the corporation's standings. This had the effect of severely limiting the amount of "POS cycling" that could occur. With the removal of standings from the equation, it is now a reasonable response, upon being wardecced, to create a new corporation, unanchor the POS under wardec, and sit on the moon in question in a cloaked industrial sitting in the new, unwardecced corporation, ready to anchor a new pos when the old one comes up.

I suggest that a new corporation be required to wait seven (7) days before being eligible to anchor a new pos. This brings the new era in line with the convoluted, yet functional system that exists today.

This is a good idea and should get implemented.


So an industrialist needs a spare corporation in reserve? I am not sure your suggestion addresses the claimed problem.
Goonswarm Federation
#214 - 2014-04-15 17:10:49 UTC
Kadl wrote:

So an industrialist needs a spare corporation in reserve? I am not sure your suggestion addresses the problem.


tying up an alt makes it at least require a mediocum of planning to trivially avoid wardecs

i would still be irritated at the ease but it would be a vast improvement you must admit

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Goonswarm Federation
#215 - 2014-04-15 17:11:27 UTC
Kadl wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Querns wrote:
On a related note:

The removal of standings for anchoring POS makes it trivial to evade destruction of your POS. Right now, if you want to move your POS to a new corporation upon wardec, it takes seven (7) days for standings to promulgate to the corporation's standings. This had the effect of severely limiting the amount of "POS cycling" that could occur. With the removal of standings from the equation, it is now a reasonable response, upon being wardecced, to create a new corporation, unanchor the POS under wardec, and sit on the moon in question in a cloaked industrial sitting in the new, unwardecced corporation, ready to anchor a new pos when the old one comes up.

I suggest that a new corporation be required to wait seven (7) days before being eligible to anchor a new pos. This brings the new era in line with the convoluted, yet functional system that exists today.

This is a good idea and should get implemented.


So an industrialist needs a spare corporation in reserve? I am not sure your suggestion addresses the problem.

It would work once, then if they were wardecced again, they'd be screwed. This is similar to how the system works today.

How many character slots are you willing to dedicate to new refugee corporations?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Snuffed Out
#216 - 2014-04-15 17:11:30 UTC
Death Ryder wrote:
my question to CCP Ytterbium is this....

ARE YOU A FREAKING IDIOT...

your little improvements will turn high sec into a war zone and bring production across eve to a standstill in no time what so ever as the greifer CCP so fondly coddle up to begin destroying pos's left right and center in a damn orgy of wankerness...

the future of highsec is... sticky
Caldari State
#217 - 2014-04-15 17:12:08 UTC
Again we will see that you can not force people to play stupid.

PvPers keep demanding that rules be changed to make it easier to kill, get stuff.

Once again, all that will happen is that the potential easy targets will alter their play style in a way that means it is still not easy to kill them or get their stuff.


Blueprints have to be at a POS? Okay. We'll create a 1 person, 6 alt corp in high sec, with a large POS with a gazillion hardeners. All we will do with it is crank out BPCs from the BPOs. You'd need hundreds of battleships for a whole day to crack the POS.

Then we will jump the copies out to low/null.

You cannot make us play in a way that makes it easy to kill us and take our stuff. All you can do is make us change our play style, or simply stop playing.


I am getting so sick and tired of the PvPers whining.. oh, change this, or change that... then it would be easy to kill the non-PvPers, or change this so it is easier to get their expensive stuff. WRONG!!!! Change this or that, and we will just adapt our play. We are never going to play a game where we exist to be easy targets for the PvPers. EVER!

People are not going to be putting 10s or 100s of billion of ISK worth of PBOs into corporate POSes, unless is it an alt corp of just their alts.


Removing the ability to leave the BPO at the station and build/research from it at the POS is a stupid, stupid, stupid change, that creates hastle for the industrialist, and WILL NOT achieve the intended purpose of putting the BPOs at risk, because industrialists are not stupid enough to do things that would put those BPOs at risk.


You can't make us play stupid!!!!
C C P Alliance
#218 - 2014-04-15 17:12:41 UTC
Quazal Atreides wrote:
Can i ask my quetsions again!

How big will the RAMs be given they are 100x more required per bpc!.

conider

Anshar requires 40 ram if you saying that this will be multiplied by 100 and then .95 (the damage per run) we will be talking about 3800 ram per anshar run
And at 4m3 per one that will require 15200m3

Can i please have an answer on this

Finally what will happen to our existing ram will the all be multiplied by 100x


Good point as well. We'll have a look at volumes and keep you posted if we do any change.

And regarding existing RAM / RDB, yes, they'll be multiplied by 100.
#219 - 2014-04-15 17:13:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
This may be in the cost scaling blog, but will the 0-14% cost increase be reflected in the UI in some way, or will we have to learn this from our spreadsheets?


The new UI will show you the accurate price before you actually install the job.


Sadly most manufacturing profit comes to an average of about 5% of the value of the item. This means that depending on the usage of the station, it is entirely possible for the profit to be completely lost. Can we please have a graph and numbers to show exactly how this scaling works? For those of us who actually do large amounts of manufacturing, being able to reasonably predict production cost is essential.
Mercenary Coalition
#220 - 2014-04-15 17:14:11 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Riela Tanal wrote:
You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.

what ones are worth more than like 20m isk besides supercaps


10 Run BPO BS, BPC, Dread/Carrier BPC, T2 BPC ... shall I continue?

under 10m, like 20-50m, under 10m except probably jf and blops and marauders which run at most like 100m

so yes, please continue proving bpcs are simply not a real theft target


Rofl... when was the last time you had a look at full run BS and Cap BPC? And a lot of the T2 BPC for BLOPS/HAC/CS/JF (ofc) are worth more than 20M and if stored in numbers in a POS for production very well a juicy target in addition to the other billions in materials in the POS for the production and invention. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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