These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Building better Worlds

First post First post First post
Author
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2014-04-15 16:44:06 UTC
Querns wrote:
The removal of standings for anchoring POS makes it trivial to evade destruction of your POS.


But the dev blog says "The core goal is to motivate player entities to actually defend their Starbases if attacked". So clearly you must be wrong! ;)
Medalyn Isis
#182 - 2014-04-15 16:44:40 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Question: Will existing stacks of R.A.M. and R.Db be multiplied by 100 to compensate for the changes?

MDD


Yes indeed.

i'm not sure if this has been answered yet, but will R.A.M. now be affected by the ME level of the BPO/BPC?
Goonswarm Federation
#183 - 2014-04-15 16:45:22 UTC
oh yeah: with anyone able to put up a pos you actually need to code in refineries using skills or absolutely nobody in empire ever will use a station refinery

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

C C P Alliance
#184 - 2014-04-15 16:45:39 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
When you say "14% of cost" as the max slot fee, what does that mean for research jobs? That only makes sense for manufacturing.


Research will have specific ways around that, which will be explained in the proper blog P
#185 - 2014-04-15 16:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
my question to CCP Ytterbium is this....

your little improvements will turn high sec into a war zone and bring production across eve to a standstill in no time what so ever as the greifer CCP so fondly coddle up to begin destroying pos's left right and center in a damn orgy of wankerness...

Edit: Personal attack removed, CCP Phantom
Forgers United
#186 - 2014-04-15 16:47:49 UTC
I would like to know if CCP plans to include faction/corporation standings of players/corporations into the formula for the price of new manufacturing jobs. Something like what works for the broker fees - better standings with station owner means lower prices.
I think this would be very appropriate, as CCP now removes the need of standings to anchor POS. It would also more encourage players to at least try missions or grind some standings... (COSMOS anyone?)
Arataka Research Consortium
#187 - 2014-04-15 16:49:57 UTC
Actually, QUESTION!

So. If you're removing the standing requirement for anchoring POSes because it doesn't add gameplay value, will you also be removing the standing requirement for installing jumpclones?

That said, if you're removing standings requirements and standings now only really matter for taxes/agent access, will you be adding new standing-gated rewards to LP stores or something like that? Pretty please?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

#188 - 2014-04-15 16:51:06 UTC
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


This is the worst single idea I have ever seen from a dev. DO NOT DO THIS CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!

We already risk a large amount of isk in just having the labs/datacores/decryptors and all of the copies needed out at a pos. Forcing us to either risk a huge amount more than that, or move the bpos to other much more populated stations that are already overpopulated (that don't have corp offices available or available for anywhere near a reasonable price) and incur a high cost that will greatly reduce production profit or negate it all together, is a horrible change. You as devs do not understand the amount of bpos required to make copies for t2 invention. And you clearly don't understand the organization and the necessity of being able to efficiently access bpos and the time commitment that industry already takes. It is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume that it is only a slight amount of isk that we will be risking. We use and need easy access to hundreds of bpos to make the copies we need to be able to do invention. Asking us to risk multiple billions in bpos is insane. And no, I know I don't have to keep all of the bpos I am not using at the pos. However, the addition of moving around the needed bpos from the station to the pos adds an additional step and organizational nightmare to an already complicated system. Because of the nature of industry NOTHING you do with the UI and other new features will change this.

This change will also create an additional hassle organizational nightmare for players who need to find or move bpos around. Industry is already complicated enough without having to deal with moving all of the bpos around. DO NOT take away our ability to organize bpos in one central station corp office so multiple characters can easily have access to them and can quickly and efficiently install jobs. DO NOT make us do more work and take more time to do industry jobs.

Another severely overlooked issue that this creates: This removes the ability of safely sharing bpos by locking them down in corp hanger in a station. BPOs can't be locked down at a pos. This change will limit how and where we can play severely. It forces people who want to play together to use certain systems and certain stations, to pay for spots at those stations and it practically makes setting up a pos a waste of time and effort, because it limits its usefulness. In the culture of eve (griefers/corp thieves/all) this change removes several much needed elements of safety that allow us to enjoy playing and interacting with a larger player base.

If you have decided to do this, as is suggested by other statements in this dev blog, because you haven't worked out how to deal how the slot change affects pos mods, then DO NOT make this change until you come up with a better solution. Because this is NOT the way to make this change happen.

POSes are expensive, take time, effort and a good amount of isk to maintain already. Forcing us to risk a considerable amount more and in doing so increase the amount of busy work that is required for doing industry is not a good change.

I personally have been playing Eve for 5 and a half years. Industry is one part of the game that I greatly enjoy doing. If this change does go through I will have to seriously consider if it is worth it to keep paying for my 4 accounts. Many of my friends who like this element of the game are already talking about leaving because of this. I sincerely hope that you will not go through with this change and that the other forthcoming industry changes are much more intelligently and thoughtfully crafted than this. If not, you will be losing a large group of your paying customers.
Medalyn Isis
#189 - 2014-04-15 16:54:37 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
oh yeah: with anyone able to put up a pos you actually need to code in refineries using skills or absolutely nobody in empire ever will use a station refinery

Yes, this was an issue even before these changes, now it is pretty much imperative.
Goonswarm Federation
#190 - 2014-04-15 16:55:16 UTC
how on earth are ~serious industrialists~ complaining that they might have a billion in bpos in a pos

it's an empire pos you get 24h notice before anyone can shoot it so you can vaccumn them all out and even if you don't, it's only a billion isk

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

#191 - 2014-04-15 16:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kaius Fero wrote:
Now.. tell me this was a typo! Are you guys serious about this?! I mean.. there are thousand of players whom spent like months grinding those stupid cosmos missions just to be able to drop a POS in hi sec and now your like.. "lol suckers!"

I'm not ragging because the change, I think it's a good thing because grinding those missions was/is a pain. But I'm pretty mad that I had to spend so many weeks .. for nothing. Same as skilling for refining, now every noob with a POS will be able to refine as good as I do .. wtf?!
It wasn't for nothing. It gave you the ability to place POSes and refine perfectly. It was worth doing and it has paid off handsomely.

But like you say, it's a good thing. Having to grind a completely unrelated activity just to be good at industry was ridiculously silly.

Death Ryder wrote:
your little improvements will turn high sec into a war zone and bring production across eve to a standstill in no time what so ever as the greifer CCP so fondly coddle up to begin destroying pos's left right and center in a damn orgy of wankerness...
How so? And what makes that a bad thing?

Adellle Nadair wrote:
[rant]
Again, what you should be asking for probably isn't that they undo the changes, but that they ensure that copying becomes the new go-to method for distributed industry by making it at least 1:1 efficient compared to manufacturing from the BPOs.
Goonswarm Federation
#192 - 2014-04-15 16:56:35 UTC
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


Go home ccp your drunk.
Brotherhood of Spacers
#193 - 2014-04-15 16:56:55 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Chribba wrote:
I will be there.

Removal of blueprints in stations suddenly became a major game changer!

/c

Indeed, though not as much of a game changer (for most players) as the scaling cost to manufacture. Marketing hubs will likely no longer also be industrial hubs... and as industry spreads out so to may the market landscape.

Win WIN!!!


I had the same thought and I wanted to wait and see who else would catch on. There is going to be very little industry (research, manufacturing) happening in major hubs like Jita and Amarr due to the %14 cost-share eating profits. People are going to relocate to quieter systems, but still in the close vicinity to the hub like Perimeter and Kor-Azor (respectively) . This in turn adds an additional cost. For the risk/reward does the industrialist take the risk and the cost of shipping for the reward of the competitive market hub, or does he instead attempt to sell the item where he is at?

Eventually though, those too will fill up and production moves another jump out. It will get to the point though that the opportunity cost of shipping is going to exceed the value of the item in a market hub and instead will be sold at the site of production.

Is this the real Burn Jita campaign? Im on to you CCP

I will say at least thanks to CCP for telling industrialists in advance so they can make preparations. Its going to be very interesting after the expansion hits.



#194 - 2014-04-15 16:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Riela Tanal
The one thing that I disagree with is removing the ability for installing the jobs with the bpos in station, they are locked down to prevent corp theft of the bpos in the first place. There are few if any security measures in place in the POS code to prevent corp theft. Currently you only need a few roles in order to do manufacturing but you can't steal the bpo if its locked down

You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.


If the end goal is to have multiple teams working on industry projects, counter measures to be put in place to prevent corp theft as currently they are VERY limited especially in POS's.
Medalyn Isis
#195 - 2014-04-15 16:59:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
But like you say, it's a good thing. Having to grind a completely unrelated activity just to be good at industry was ridiculously silly.

But we are still going to have to do that, as people will need standing for station refining unless they setup a POS. If this was the reason for the change, then surely the next logical step will be for standings to be taken out of consideration for station refining also.
Team Amarrica
#196 - 2014-04-15 16:59:44 UTC
I'm a little shocked at the level of information coming out before Fanfest. Usually the month before is quiet as they want to showcase it in Iceland. I am pleasantly surprised.
Goonswarm Federation
#197 - 2014-04-15 17:00:24 UTC
Querns wrote:
On a related note:

The removal of standings for anchoring POS makes it trivial to evade destruction of your POS. Right now, if you want to move your POS to a new corporation upon wardec, it takes seven (7) days for standings to promulgate to the corporation's standings. This had the effect of severely limiting the amount of "POS cycling" that could occur. With the removal of standings from the equation, it is now a reasonable response, upon being wardecced, to create a new corporation, unanchor the POS under wardec, and sit on the moon in question in a cloaked industrial sitting in the new, unwardecced corporation, ready to anchor a new pos when the old one comes up.

I suggest that a new corporation be required to wait seven (7) days before being eligible to anchor a new pos. This brings the new era in line with the convoluted, yet functional system that exists today.

This is a good idea and should get implemented.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Circle-Of-Two
#198 - 2014-04-15 17:01:45 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
how on earth are ~serious industrialists~ complaining that they might have a billion in bpos in a pos

it's an empire pos you get 24h notice before anyone can shoot it so you can vaccumn them all out and even if you don't, it's only a billion isk


I had over 40b in BPOs researching at a single pos at one point, and even then it was hard to justify the cost of fuel. If the BPOs need to be in the labs, that sort of operation is only 24 hours without the right people being able to log in away from complete disaster.
Goonswarm Federation
#199 - 2014-04-15 17:01:54 UTC
Riela Tanal wrote:
You need take access in a corp array in order to build, if you have those roles you can simply steal the bpo. This can be solved by making copies but some bpo copes are still worth a lot of isk and can be still stolen.

what ones are worth more than like 20m isk besides supercaps

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Goonswarm Federation
#200 - 2014-04-15 17:03:22 UTC
Boltorano wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
how on earth are ~serious industrialists~ complaining that they might have a billion in bpos in a pos

it's an empire pos you get 24h notice before anyone can shoot it so you can vaccumn them all out and even if you don't, it's only a billion isk


I had over 40b in BPOs researching at a single pos at one point, and even then it was hard to justify the cost of fuel. If the BPOs need to be in the labs, that sort of operation is only 24 hours without the right people being able to log in away from complete disaster.

I have over 100b of bpos technically in a pos right now, obviously I will move around which ones are where but for anything short of supercap bpos it's hardly a big deal to put it at risk.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Forum Jump