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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2014-04-02 10:34:02 UTC
When is the drone interface (UI) going to redesigned. Controlling drones in eve is a horrible and clunky experience and there are some relatively small tweaks that could be made that would improve the interface a lot.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
killerlman
Fast Flow in Slow Motion
White Sky.
#322 - 2014-04-02 10:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: killerlman
CCP, plx boost proteuses drone bandwidth in his drone synthesis subsystem!

(+25mbit/sec bandwidth to use fifth heavy drone) p.s now it only has 100mb/s,dont know whyWhat?
LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#323 - 2014-04-02 10:42:02 UTC
Wyvern already had the best tank available, now it will also have most DPS (at the expense of least tank).

Boost Amarr!
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2014-04-02 10:53:28 UTC
LakeEnd wrote:
Wyvern already had the best tank available, now it will also have most DPS (at the expense of least tank).

Boost Amarr!


This now we just need a damage bonus on the Hel and shield implants.
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#325 - 2014-04-02 11:07:25 UTC
Mixed feelings.

The rebalance is probably something long due - at least by the whine river we've seen the past year. Ok, so be it. Another popular combination will rise and will be nerfed later on. NBD.

Still, a bit sad that EVE: Sources boasts Gallente as the race built on drones, master of automatic weapon system, culprit of the sentient rogue drone plague, so advanced in drone tech that their ships require less crew because the ship itself can think and react on its own...

...And now the Nyx is being treated like this, instead of being the unquestionable, undisputed, lore-propped undestructible killing machine of old, only because it's the popular choice for drone boats.

Do you pick anything else than Caldari for serious missiles or long range hybrids platforms? Do you pick anything else than Minmatar for nimble projectile ships? Do you pick anything else than Amarr for bricky lasers vessels?

Yet we'd pick Archons and Aeons over Thanatoi and Nyxen now...

I'm a bit perplexed. In the min/maxing game, of course nobody gives a flying fack, but still...

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
seller1122
Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
#326 - 2014-04-02 11:14:07 UTC
I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.

The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.

Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.

Bryperium
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
#327 - 2014-04-02 11:14:54 UTC
As many people have pointed out; please reconsider your changes to the supercarriers.

We asked you to make them all viable, not buff the wyvern to be the clear top dog and leave the nyx (and aeon to a lesser extent) in the dirt Sad

-
Kenhi sama
Project Stealth Squad
The Initiative.
#328 - 2014-04-02 11:25:09 UTC
What about mining-drones?
They are effected by drone interfacing too, so is this change a nerf to mining drones, or are they change according to this?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#329 - 2014-04-02 11:29:39 UTC
seller1122 wrote:
I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.

The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.

Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.


This is pretty true. Although unless you have the ability to carry multiple types of drones (which we used to be able to do) thermals going to be the preferred option over kinetic.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2014-04-02 11:29:41 UTC
I'll add my voice to the request for meta 1-4 drone modules. And maybe an adjustment in the fitting requirements of the T1 DDA as versus the T2 DDA - unless meta DDA's are added with lower CPU requirements, or faction DDA's also have lower CPU requirements.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Shovi Chen-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#331 - 2014-04-02 11:30:04 UTC
Since you are doing this, can you also make drones not go full ****** and attack groups of NPCs that aren't shooting or doing anything to me?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#332 - 2014-04-02 11:34:34 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Good morning everyone.

Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. Big smile

To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far:

  • I love you too Dinsdale, never change.
  • We'll be increasing the base mining yield of all mining drones by 33% to compensate for the change to Drone Interfacing. This means that at max skills mining drones will have identical yield to pre-patch and at lower skills they will be improved. Thanks to CSM member Mike Azariah for reminding me.
  • There's currently a display bug that makes the Drone Navigation Computer say that it adds newtons of force. It actually increases drone MWD top speed by a percentage, +30% for T2.
  • Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.

  • I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:

    • Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage
    Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage
    Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage
    Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage

    Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage
    Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage
    Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage
    Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage

  • We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once.

  • We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#333 - 2014-04-02 11:43:28 UTC
IMO its great changes overall, but you really need to look into the Wyvern becoming BY FAR the best super carrier now.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#334 - 2014-04-02 11:44:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
    • [/list]



    caldari drones already are competitive, I don't know where you're getting this frmo. and you really should do everything I suggest re: drones, because I am right.
    Barbaydos
    Kraken Exploration and Janitorial Services
    The Initiative.
    #335 - 2014-04-02 11:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbaydos
    so basically if we lose one fb now its 1/20 of our dps gone, after the changes it will be 1/10 meaning that the fb are going to be relentlessly bombed when they are deployed even more so then they are now just to eliminate their dps.

    the nyx and hel have drone bays of 175,000m3 and the aeon and wyvern have 150,000m3 each

    lets say that with the changes we still want to field a full flight of 10 fb which will take up 100,000m3
    lets also say we want to protect ourselves as supers with fighters. if we put 10 in that takes up 50,000m3.

    this leaves the aeon and wyvern with no space left for any additional drones and the nyx and hel with an additional 25,000m3, enough for 2 fb and 1 fighter.

    now the fighter bombers are going to die, its a fact, with a buff to their hp it may take a bit longer but they are still going to die. with the volume changes the aeon and wyvern are going to quickly run out of bombers relegating them to being repair platforms or just doing fighter dps. not very super anymore

    the volume of the fighter bombers needs to be reduced so we can actually carry more then 1 or 2 spares in the drone bay otherwise super carriers fighter bombers will just be killed off and they wont actually be able to apply damage
    Peter Powers
    Terrorists of Dimensions
    #336 - 2014-04-02 11:47:31 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

    We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.

    Personally i'd like them to be a bit more diverse, rather than being some "inbetween the other two races" thingie.

    3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications
    seth Hendar
    I love you miners
    #337 - 2014-04-02 11:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Good morning everyone.

    Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. Big smile

    To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far:

    • I love you too Dinsdale, never change.
    • We'll be increasing the mining yield of all mining drones by 33% to compensate for the change to Drone Interfacing. This means that at max skills mining drones will have identical yield to pre-patch and at lower skills they will be improved. Thanks to CSM member Mike Azariah for reminding me.
    • There's currently a display bug that makes the Drone Navigation computer say that it adds newtons of force. It actually increases drone MWD top speed by a percentage, +30% for T2.
    • Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.

    • I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:

      • Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage
      Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage
      Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage
      Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage

      Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage
      Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage
      Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage
      Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage

    • We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once.

    • We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. it is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.

    fix the damn drone assist to pirate in low, fuckin tired to be nerfed just because we live in the most challenging area after WH
    fix the omnis, they are STILL broken
    fix the drone UI, it is still broken (watchlist not working, drone exiting with random amount of shield, pain to use)
    fix the drone AI, it is still broken (still somehow forget orders sometimes, randomly aggro NPC even with the correct settings, randomly shoot at sentry gun even when issued an order to actually attack a specific tgt, just because the sentry is the biggest incoming dps....)
    rethink your change about amarr and caldari drone, they won't be used even after that, you choose either speed or DPS, you don't even consider the rest, especially since the TH and explo are the main damage you want to deal anyway

    once this is covered, then sure, rebalance the thing.....
    Noroswen
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #338 - 2014-04-02 11:51:11 UTC
    So is there going to be any change to the availability of Intergrated and Augmented drones then?
    knobber Jobbler
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #339 - 2014-04-02 11:54:27 UTC
    Barbaydos wrote:
    so basically if we lose one fb now its 1/20 of our dps gone, after the changes it will be 1/10 meaning that the fb are going to be relentlessly bombed when they are deployed even more so then they are now just to eliminate their dps.

    the nyx and hel have drone bays of 175,000m3 and the aeon and wyvern have 150,000m3 each

    lets say that with the changes we still want to field a full flight of 10 fb which will take up 100,000m3
    lets also say we want to protect ourselves as supers with fighters. if we put 10 in that takes up 50,000m3.

    this leaves the aeon and wyvern with no space left for any additional drones and the nyx and hel with an additional 25,000m3, enough for 2 fb and 1 fighter.

    now the fighter bombers are going to die, its a fact, with a buff to their hp it may take a bit longer but they are still going to die. with the volume changes the aeon and wyvern are going to quickly run out of bombers relegating them to being repair platforms or just doing fighter dps. not very super anymore

    the volume of the fighter bombers needs to be reduced so we can actually carry more then 1 or 2 spares in the drone bay otherwise super carriers fighter bombers will just be killed off and they wont actually be able to apply damage


    Sounds like you'll need subcap support because the iwin butan is gone.
    Barton Breau
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #340 - 2014-04-02 11:56:35 UTC
    Tippia wrote:
    Barton Breau wrote:
    I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones.

    If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.

    So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane.


    You seem to be assuming the hypothetical faction DDAs will be somehow stronger than officer ones (930dps max)...

    Moreover, why mention gun dps at all, dont most ships have a drone bay?