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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5641 - 2014-03-27 16:57:55 UTC
Flybiere wrote:
Bait a person, never breaking the rules, but going to the authorities as soon as the victim tried to defend themselves.


You might want to review your notes on who started this shitstorm.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5642 - 2014-03-27 16:58:05 UTC
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:



If it really was torture, its a matter for law enforcement, not CCP. And it seems rather silly does it not, to get international law enforcement involved for someone being asked to sing or lose his space ship. Which also, is rather like at fanfest a while back with the clips of people singing their national anthem or they lose their pos or ship. Was that torture too?


I disagree. I suggest he does take it to law enforcement so they can laugh at him hysterically before escorting him off government property.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5643 - 2014-03-27 16:58:13 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
The feedback in this thread is very much appreciated, and we've been watching it since it was first posted.

While we can appreciate that tensions are high, please remember to keep within the forum rules when posting.

We'll have more information for you guys in the coming days.

Smile

Thank you for taking the time to consider this. I'm sure that it is a controversial subject within CCP as well. I hope that any action against Ero or any escrow agents (including myself) will focus not on scamming or individual actions taken, but rather then length and attitude of the bonus round.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Prince Kobol
#5644 - 2014-03-27 16:58:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Then what are the rules. Please clarify each rule in the TOS/EULA with a detail explanation of each one so we will all be clear.


Its up to you to find the rules that have been broken, which nobody has managed to do in getting on for 300 pages of this whitchhunt.


I have already posted which rules could be made applicable to E1 several times. Noseygamer has also stated the same rules.

It appears it is you who must argue why those rules which have already been stated should not be applied to E1.
Salvos Rhoska
#5645 - 2014-03-27 16:59:07 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.


It is if you're going to call it torture, since your own definition specifies that it must be against "the will of the latter [victim]," and its demonstrable that the victim was willing.


It is normal and justified to assume that nobodies will includes being subject to torture.

The will of the two parties are as follows:

-The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room, is to force the victim to leave the Bonus Room.
This is how they win the Bonus Room.

-The will of the victim is to fulfill the terms of the contract, and receive the reward.
That is how they win the Bonus Room (supposedly).

In order for the perpetrators to win, and to actualise their will, they systematically and deliberately inflict acute psychological pain on the victim (as constitutes torture according to Amnesty International, as sourced in my sig)

This is how the perpetrators in the Bonus Room "win".

Torture is the mechanism whereby they enact that.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#5646 - 2014-03-27 16:59:16 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It is possible to get angry enough that the mind searches for "the worst things to say".

Mel Gibson for example. Nobody goes into an explosive rant better IMO.


Now back in my day (TM) when people went into this state, it was uncommon for it to be full of racial and sexual slang and epithets.

Why was that?


Because back then such words were not lent such power. There was no political correctness turning mere words (which were also interchangeably used as terms of endearment) into weapons of mass destruction.


So now, when someone has gone completely off the end of their rope, their mind looks to the "shelf" of the worst things to say.

And guess what's on that shelf now, thanks to 20+ years of political correctness?


So of course it's only expected that the same victims (or fools who can't see how manipulated they are) will act like the person who said those words has committed an act completely disconnected from the mental state, one that was induced, in which those words were said.

It's like winning a trophy for these people, the sort that would use such incident as a whip of progressiveness to beat others with, such as "Oh so you say he was under duress? Why are you a racist too?".

The tactic is plainly obvious, and I see people do this on Twitter all of the time too.


Like I said, both Erotica 1 and his victims are at fault. The victims deserve zero sympathy. They knew exactly what they were getting into yet let their greed turn them into idiots. However what Erotica 1 does is just pure sadism with no rhyme or reason to it. He could get the same results (scamming people out of everything they own) by merely asking them to do the first part of the game (showing full faith). This would be perfectly fine. Asking them to do or say humiliating things is where Erotica 1 crosses the line from scammer to sadist.

So let me ask you some simple questions:
Does Erotic 1 deserve a ban (some are even pushing for a lifetime ban)?
If yes, on what grounds?
Which rules did he break to result in this punishment?



I don't know. But it's not for me to decide. But whatever CCP decides to protect their private property along with the integrity of the game and reputation of the players I will support it.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#5647 - 2014-03-27 16:59:31 UTC
Quote:
"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."


Well, since not acute pain was inflicted, and it was certainly not done against the "victims" will, you've pretty much invalidated everything but the most amusingly preposterous arguments calling for sanctions in this thread... and those arguments need no help from you to be ignored as complete rubbish.

Reading text or singing a song upon REQUEST is not "acute pain" by anyone's standards, and if you can end the supposed "torture" at any time by simply leaving a TS channel it can hardly be considered "against his will".

Frankly the act of willfully submitting yourself to acute pain and humiliation of your own free will, when you are free to leave at any time, is called Masochism... not torture. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Prince Kobol
#5648 - 2014-03-27 16:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Batelle wrote:
Flybiere wrote:
Bait a person, never breaking the rules, but going to the authorities as soon as the victim tried to defend themselves.


You might want to review your notes on who started this shitstorm.


Well you could blame E1 for taking the scam out of game for the sole reason to inflict as much humility as possible, Jester for the blog or me for starting this thread.

Which one will it be?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5649 - 2014-03-27 17:00:29 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Let me ask this question.

If E1 was actually serious about running for CSM and proceeded to gain a seat his real name would become public.

What if then one of the people who he recorded and posted on the internet decided to get revenge and found out were he worked and proceeded to inform then of what he does and they found it to be distasteful and it impacted on his real life would this be acceptable?

After all it was E1 who posted the material to begin with and E1 would of been well aware that his real name would be made available to all.


You honestly think E1 will get on the CSM?

In answer, he asked someone to read the code, read some wikipedia and sing two songs. Where exactly is the rule breaking here?
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5650 - 2014-03-27 17:00:41 UTC
yes, being in a teamspeak room with a bunch of assholes is very comparable and in fact possibly worse than waterboarding

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5651 - 2014-03-27 17:01:17 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The scam part is fine, this is the part that isn't acceptable for me, and why I consider the bahaviour of Ero and his buddies to be beyond the pale.

"...Early in the proceedings, the victim admits to having a minor speech impediment that quickly becomes apparent. One of the instigators pounces on this and suggests that any word the victim cannot pronounce properly, he be made to look up the definition for and read that definition as well..."

The above quote is taken from Jester's blog on the subject.
Amazing, you quote that as if it is an authoritative source, rather than listening to the recording, which is linked in that very blog.

It's like you actively don't want to know true things.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5652 - 2014-03-27 17:01:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:
Interesting 3 accounts stopped replying at the same time.

LolLolLolLol

Sorry I'm slow. Just trying to find more news sources I can submit this story to.
Let's see what happens and how outside world sees it. I'm genuinely interested as I'm playing this game long enough to have my vision skewed.


Are you about to form a circumstantial correlation as proof of something that doesn't actually prove anything?


What, a observation is not allowed here now?
It's awesome community right? We can do all we want right?

Nope?

oh poor you. your hypocrisy strikes again and you can't even tell.


No, I never said you can't make observations. I just know what people who are prone to jumping to conclusions are likely to do with those observations.


I'm quite certain that for me to prove my point to you became impossible few posts back so I'm not gonna even bother.
While I consider your words I find them out of reality in regards to this case that was proven in and out of game to be something going too far even for Goons(!)

I mean you go on and delete my posts and put your own text in that place while still using my name and then you reply to yourself. Stupid doesn't even come close to something like this it just proves you have absolutely NOTHING to counter my theory or views.

So if you want to keep going, so is your right but don't try to act smart cause you missed that stop a while ago.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5653 - 2014-03-27 17:01:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.


It is if you're going to call it torture, since your own definition specifies that it must be against "the will of the latter [victim]," and its demonstrable that the victim was willing.


It is normal and justified to assume that nobodies will includes being subject to torture.

The will of the two parties are as follows:

-The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room, is to force the victim to leave the Bonus Room.
This is how they win the Bonus Room.

-The will of the victim is to fulfill the terms of the contract, and receive the reward.
That is how they win the Bonus Room (supposedly).

In order for the perpetrators to win, and to actualise their will, they systematically and deliberately inflict acute psychological pain on the victim (as constitutes torture according to Amnesty International, as sourced in my sig)

This is how the perpetrators in the Bonus Room "win".

Torture is the mechanism whereby they enact that.


It is the will of the 'victim' to join the bonus room in the first place.

Still not getting it are you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Prince Kobol
#5654 - 2014-03-27 17:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Let me ask this question.

If E1 was actually serious about running for CSM and proceeded to gain a seat his real name would become public.

What if then one of the people who he recorded and posted on the internet decided to get revenge and found out were he worked and proceeded to inform then of what he does and they found it to be distasteful and it impacted on his real life would this be acceptable?

After all it was E1 who posted the material to begin with and E1 would of been well aware that his real name would be made available to all.


You honestly think E1 will get on the CSM?

In answer, he asked someone to read the code, read some wikipedia and sing two songs. Where exactly is the rule breaking here?


Hmm.. you seem to be having problems reading again...


If E1 was actually serious about running for CSM bolded that part for you Big smile

Yet again avoiding a very simple question. You seem to do that a lot these days.

A simple yes or no and short explanation as to why will suffice
Korhaka Mirunas
Doomheim
#5655 - 2014-03-27 17:02:35 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Let me ask this question.

If E1 was actually serious about running for CSM and proceeded to gain a seat his real name would become public.

What if then one of the people who he recorded and posted on the internet decided to get revenge and found out were he worked and proceeded to inform then of what he does and they found it to be distasteful and it impacted on his real life would this be acceptable?

After all it was E1 who posted the material to begin with and E1 would of been well aware that his real name would be made available to all.


That sounds like a personal matter for him and thus not our concern.

We need T3 Shuttles!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiR5Q72kT1U
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5656 - 2014-03-27 17:02:44 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:
Interesting 3 accounts stopped replying at the same time.

LolLolLolLol

Sorry I'm slow. Just trying to find more news sources I can submit this story to.
Let's see what happens and how outside world sees it. I'm genuinely interested as I'm playing this game long enough to have my vision skewed.


Are you about to form a circumstantial correlation as proof of something that doesn't actually prove anything?


What, a observation is not allowed here now?
It's awesome community right? We can do all we want right?

Nope?

oh poor you. your hypocrisy strikes again and you can't even tell.


No, I never said you can't make observations. I just know what people who are prone to jumping to conclusions are likely to do with those observations.


I'm quite certain that for me to prove my point to you became impossible few posts back so I'm not gonna even bother.


Only because you haven't provided any proof.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#5657 - 2014-03-27 17:03:19 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Asking them to do or say humiliating things is where Erotica 1 crosses the line from scammer to sadist.


Part of the reason why I love EVE so much is that when you lose at PVP, you actually LOSE something. It's more tangible than just having to respawn.

I love that I'm potentially ruining someone's day a little by blowing up their space pixels.

That's a sadistic pleasure.

Experiencing even the slightest bit of schadenfreude is also a sadistic pleasure.

So stop bandying about with terms like "morally indefensible", "sadistic", or "psychological torture".

If you've ever committed corp espionage, you've done something that's morally indefensible.

if you've ever performed any activity whatsoever to try and make a person not want to play the game, you've set yourself to find a way to torture their psyche.

If you've ever pvped, or taken pleasure at someone's downfall in EVE (like Mittens being kicked from the CSM), then you've done something sadistic.

The question to be asked is: In a game where you can spend a year, or more, becoming a close friend of people just so you can shank them in the back when it matters most, how is this worse?

... that's not rhetorical.
Josef Djugashvilis
#5658 - 2014-03-27 17:03:27 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The scam part is fine, this is the part that isn't acceptable for me, and why I consider the bahaviour of Ero and his buddies to be beyond the pale.

"...Early in the proceedings, the victim admits to having a minor speech impediment that quickly becomes apparent. One of the instigators pounces on this and suggests that any word the victim cannot pronounce properly, he be made to look up the definition for and read that definition as well..."

The above quote is taken from Jester's blog on the subject.
Amazing, you quote that as if it is an authoritative source, rather than listening to the recording, which is linked in that very blog.

It's like you actively don't want to know true things.


Do keep up dear...

This is not a signature.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#5659 - 2014-03-27 17:03:31 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Also, if you (salvos), as a self-described lawyer

I have not anywhere claimed that I am a lawyer.

And how do you know I have not already spoken at TED?


Because no stupid people have ever spoken at TED.

And yes, you did claim to be a lawyer, and then edited the claim out after being notified that claiming to be a lawyer when you're not one can land you in a world of legal hurt.


Ooo juicy!!!

Can you link his comment please?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5660 - 2014-03-27 17:03:35 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
[Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You seem confused. Erotica has never asked for nude pics of significant others.

Quote:
PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.

I like how all of the anti-Erotica people in this thread are so unconcerned with actually being right that they all just start wildly accusing Erotica of every crime they can think of.


Oh yes, Erotica 1 has asked and received from his victims nsfw pictures of their significant others. And then, he posted them on forums.

Of course, since you can falsely claim that Erotica 1 does not commit similar acts, you must be an Erotica 1 associate, and perhaps even one of the torturing company that we can listen to on Erotica 1 bonus room recordings?

There are hundreds of people supporting him in this thread who are not his associates. Unless you think half of Eve are Erotica 1 escrow agents.

You are confused about how the pictures he posted on the forum came about. The pictures of [NAME REMOVED]'s girlfriend were not asked for, they were volunteered.

[NAME REMOVED] was asked to sing on TS for Erotica's CSM announcement for ISK. Eventually it was turned into a duet with [NAME REMOVED] and his girlfriend. The two of them were having fun with it, and the ISK was paid out in the end as promised. After the singing was over, Erotica asked for a picture of them with a sign that said "Erotica 1 for CSM", as he was doing with lots of people at the time. He asked for a plain picture, with a sign that said "Erotica 1 for CSM". That's it.

Later on in the night, the pictures you saw were given in addition to the picture that was asked for, without anyone on TS even aware that they were coming. [NAME REMOVED] and his girlfriend decided on their own to make those pictures.

You can't possibly hold those pictures against Erotica 1.


Thank you for providing another acknowledgement of Erotica 1's psychopathic acts that are in addition to what Ripard Teg has already posted.

You are definitely an insider since you can acknowledge Erotica 1 distributed such NSFW pictures he obtained from the bonus rooms. This shows you are either a friend/associate or one of the army of Erotica 1's alts.

There is more to what Erotica 1 has done that this community does and will absolutely despise. I have a feeling that in the upcoming days more will be revealed.

I for one am very glad that we are discussing the sadistic exploits of a psychopath who has gotten used to finding victims to abuse from EVE Online and then torturing and bullying them through real life means of communication.