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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5361 - 2014-03-27 15:13:07 UTC
You have to look at things from both ends really. Yes, Erotica 1 and the others running his Bonus Room sadistically humiliate people as much as possible. However, choosing to participate in the bonus room is entirely the player's choice, and they can stop playing whenever they decide enough is enough.

There is a lot of pressure on the victims yes, however like Erotica 1 and his group always say it's just a game. You gave Erotica 1 a huge sum of cash and now he wants you to play a bonus round to get it back? GG well played. Bonus round participants are only those who are so greedy they are willing to make an absolute ass of themselves in a vain attempt at making money. There is as much blame on the participants as there is on Erotica 1.

Another thing, if you took advantage of Erotica 1 playing bonus round to take a look at his wallet journal I did, you'll clearly see that the only people who win the bonus rounds or get sums of 500m + Isk doubled are other ISK doublers and CODE members. The bonus rounds are a total fraud and now we have more than hearsay to prove it. If you are greedy enough to degrade yourself like that, you deserve to lose everything you put in.

Finally, Erotica 1 and his colleagues are sadistic asshats who go out of their way to make things as grueling and embarrassing as possible. They are the same kind of people who force college kids to drink themselves to death as part of an initiation. They are the same people who will goad someone to kill themselves because they think they won't have the balls to do it. They are the same people who will pretend they love someone to get money or sex.

Yes, they're only doing it in EVE, but it's the same type of personality. Manipulative, ambitious, and willing to step on others to get what they want (often entertainment). It's only a matter of time before they push someone too far and something very real and very bad happens as a result. Be it a suicide, killing, or something else that will stop the gaming community from associating EVE with "An MMORPG with spaceships where anything can happen. to "A cestpool of people who want to treat you like ****."

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#5362 - 2014-03-27 15:13:17 UTC
Tor Norman wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
My space pixels mean something to me, so I don't want to just give them away. That doesn't mean I'm addicted to them.


but they are just space pixels so what is the big deal

There isn't one. Hence why calls to have Erotica 1 banned are unjustified.


The pixels aren't the issue numbnuts.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5363 - 2014-03-27 15:13:38 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
There is a lot of talk about how the mark could have stopped the whole thing at any point.

So could Ero, either Ero did not know he was taking it too far, in which case well... or, he did know and chose to continue, in which case he would be no loss to Eve Online should he be removed from the game.


Ero is not responsible for Sohkar. Sohkar is.

If Sohkar didn't like it, he should not have consented to it, and should have withdrawn consent (disconnected) when he found he didn't like it. Sohkar is a grown man.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5364 - 2014-03-27 15:13:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

Such typing, many long post, much wasted time, wow.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Rubishod
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5365 - 2014-03-27 15:14:00 UTC
"I invite you to share this recording with your mother or your aunt or your grandmother or your sister."

DAS SECISTS.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5366 - 2014-03-27 15:14:21 UTC
Kikusama wrote:
After reading about this story and after reading parts of this thread I am terribly saddened that a disturbing part of the EvE Online player community is actually naming what this player did a "play style". I know (and hope) this isn't the majority of this community, as I've witnessed EvE players doing wonderful things (the typhoon relief PLEX thing being one of them).

There is no such thing when you are purposely applying psychological torture to a person and prolong it for hours, then posting the recording on the internet. Even if it took place out of the game, it is still related to EvE by the assets which started it all, so there is no denying that CCP should take action. From what we've seen so far, I trust them completely to apply common sense to the problem and act decisively. And I might add here that usually when there's so much quietness coming from CCP, the decision will be properly hammered-in, so to speak.

I would also recommend Erotica 1 to take up an appointment with a psychiatrist, and this is in no way an attack, but a really friendly and concerned suggestion. In-game tear extraction is different from the out of game (but game-related) harassment and this should be a concern to anyone, especially the developer.


One of the best posts in this thread. I wholeheartedly agree and do concur with what you are saying.
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#5367 - 2014-03-27 15:14:34 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You have to look at things from both ends really. Yes, Erotica 1 and the others running his Bonus Room sadistically humiliate people as much as possible. However, choosing to participate in the bonus room is entirely the player's choice, and they can stop playing whenever they decide enough is enough.

There is a lot of pressure on the victims yes, however like Erotica 1 and his group always say it's just a game. You gave Erotica 1 a huge sum of cash and now he wants you to play a bonus round to get it back? GG well played. Bonus round participants are only those who are so greedy they are willing to make an absolute ass of themselves in a vain attempt at making money. There is as much blame on the participants as there is on Erotica 1.

Another thing, if you took advantage of Erotica 1 playing bonus round to take a look at his wallet journal I did, you'll clearly see that the only people who win the bonus rounds or get sums of 500m + Isk doubled are other ISK doublers and CODE members. The bonus rounds are a total fraud and now we have more than hearsay to prove it. If you are greedy enough to degrade yourself like that, you deserve to lose everything you put in.

Finally, Erotica 1 and his colleagues are sadistic asshats who go out of their way to make things as grueling and embarrassing as possible. They are the same kind of people who force college kids to drink themselves to death as part of an initiation. They are the same people who will goad someone to kill themselves because they think they won't have the balls to do it. They are the same people who will pretend they love someone to get money or sex.

Yes, they're only doing it in EVE, but it's the same type of personality. Manipulative, ambitious, and willing to step on others to get what they want (often entertainment). It's only a matter of time before they push someone too far and something very real and very bad happens as a result. Be it a suicide, killing, or something else that will stop the gaming community from associating EVE with "An MMORPG with spaceships where anything can happen. to "A cestpool of people who want to treat you like ****."


Basically this.

Don't want or need people like this in the community.
Ssieth
Celestial Inc
Always Take the Bait
#5368 - 2014-03-27 15:15:16 UTC
I think that part of he problem is that CCP, and many parts of the community as a whole, make little effort to ensure that players are aware of the difference in levels of consequence between EVE, real life and other MMOs.

If this sort of behaviour had resulted in a loss of assets in the real world then you could go to the authorities and report the issue with a _reasonable_ expectation of recovering at least some of those assets.

In most other MMOs this sort of behaviour would result in a permaban and the return of the scammed assets.

In EVE it's different. Whether or not it should be is an open item for debate (as evinced by this thread). What shouldn't be a matter for debate is CCP's, and the wider community's, responsibility to let players (specifically newer players) have no illusion about what sort of game EVE is and what they can expect to find in places like Jita local. To do otherwise is to be complicit with the behaviour demonstrated here.

W-Spacer.  Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff.
Big Lynx
#5369 - 2014-03-27 15:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Josef Djugashvilis]There is a lot of talk about how the mark could have stopped the whole thing at any point.

Sohkar is a grown man.


Physically yes. But mentally?
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5370 - 2014-03-27 15:15:29 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.


Keep posting this type of stuff, I implore you. It really is making ero's case look better and better.
Yes, yes, asking someone to sing = the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another.

What happend;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: ok
Ero: read this text please
Adult ATC: Ok, N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Ero: Sing songs
Adult ATC: NO! N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Adult ATC: I'l gonna kill you!
Adult ATC: My wife will come and scream at you some more

How it should have been;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: Wait what? Naaaah... You scammed me, well played.

What normal people do:
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: No way dude, I know it's just pixels but I want to buy space bling with them.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5371 - 2014-03-27 15:16:08 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
dexington wrote:
There is no game that's is just a scam
Then it's a scam disguised as a gameshow. Great, so what?

dexington wrote:
and the "show" is just a vulgar display of power when the victim desperately tries to save his items
Actually saving your items from E1 is easy. In fact, I'm doing it right now, and so are you. Guess how?

dexington wrote:
and this is where the creepy stuff starts.. and some borderline perverted stuff has happened in the bonus room.
[citation needed] + relevance?

dexington wrote:
In the end it's all done so E1 can produce a humiliating recording, which is then published on the internet.
If a person chooses to 'humiliate' (arguable) themselves when they know they are being recorded, what harm is done?


You want to play a game rated pegi 12, with people who tries you lure on voice comms and ask you cover you body in mayo and peanut butter, and send them the pictures... you might like that, i find that very very creepy.

You can claim that it's perfectly normal and just fun and games, i don't agree... i don't think we will ever agree.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5372 - 2014-03-27 15:16:08 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You have to look at things from both ends really. Yes, Erotica 1 and the others running his Bonus Room sadistically humiliate people as much as possible. However, choosing to participate in the bonus room is entirely the player's choice, and they can stop playing whenever they decide enough is enough.

There is a lot of pressure on the victims yes, however like Erotica 1 and his group always say it's just a game. You gave Erotica 1 a huge sum of cash and now he wants you to play a bonus round to get it back? GG well played. Bonus round participants are only those who are so greedy they are willing to make an absolute ass of themselves in a vain attempt at making money. There is as much blame on the participants as there is on Erotica 1.

Another thing, if you took advantage of Erotica 1 playing bonus round to take a look at his wallet journal I did, you'll clearly see that the only people who win the bonus rounds or get sums of 500m + Isk doubled are other ISK doublers and CODE members. The bonus rounds are a total fraud and now we have more than hearsay to prove it. If you are greedy enough to degrade yourself like that, you deserve to lose everything you put in.

Finally, Erotica 1 and his colleagues are sadistic asshats who go out of their way to make things as grueling and embarrassing as possible. They are the same kind of people who force college kids to drink themselves to death as part of an initiation. They are the same people who will goad someone to kill themselves because they think they won't have the balls to do it. They are the same people who will pretend they love someone to get money or sex.

Yes, they're only doing it in EVE, but it's the same type of personality. Manipulative, ambitious, and willing to step on others to get what they want (often entertainment). It's only a matter of time before they push someone too far and something very real and very bad happens as a result. Be it a suicide, killing, or something else that will stop the gaming community from associating EVE with "An MMORPG with spaceships where anything can happen. to "A cestpool of people who want to treat you like ****."


Basically this.

Don't want or need people like this in the community.



which is why people like you don't get to pick who is in the community, and Thank Icelandic pagan God for that.
Josef Djugashvilis
#5373 - 2014-03-27 15:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Jenn aSide wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
There is a lot of talk about how the mark could have stopped the whole thing at any point.

So could Ero, either Ero did not know he was taking it too far, in which case well... or, he did know and chose to continue, in which case he would be no loss to Eve Online should he be removed from the game.


Ero is not responsible for Sohkar. Sohkar is.

If Sohkar didn't like it, he should not have consented to it, and should have withdrawn consent (disconnected) when he found he didn't like it. Sohkar is a grown man.


Ero could have stopped the whole thing at any point, but he chose to continue, so if CCP decides to take any action against him, then he is also responsible for the consequences.


I assume Ero is a grown man.

Edited for clarity

This is not a signature.
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#5374 - 2014-03-27 15:17:54 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.


Keep posting this type of stuff, I implore you. It really is making ero's case look better and better.
Yes, yes, asking someone to sing = the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another.

What happend;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: ok
Ero: read this text please
Adult ATC: Ok, N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Ero: Sing songs
Adult ATC: NO! N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Adult ATC: I'l gonna kill you!
Adult ATC: My wife will come and scream at you some more

How it should have been;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: Wait what? Naaaah... You scammed me, well played.

What normal people do:
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: No way dude, I know it's just pixels but I want to buy space bling with them.

D.

Bear



Reported for spam.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5375 - 2014-03-27 15:18:17 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Josef Djugashvilis]There is a lot of talk about how the mark could have stopped the whole thing at any point.

Sohkar is a grown man.


Physically yes. But mentally?


I'm going to use bright letters here.

if Sohkar is mentally incapable of giving consent or understanding his actions, he should not be playing a game like EVE in the 1st place.
Tor Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5376 - 2014-03-27 15:18:34 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
My space pixels mean something to me, so I don't want to just give them away. That doesn't mean I'm addicted to them.


but they are just space pixels so what is the big deal

There isn't one. Hence why calls to have Erotica 1 banned are unjustified.


The pixels aren't the issue numbnuts.

Tor Norman wrote:
For those of you just joining us and are a little confused where this threadnaught came from, allow me to explain the cycle of arguments that have been repeating until now.

Erotica 1 is mean and should be permabanned.
Scamming people isn't against the game's rules.
We're not discussing the scams, they're fine. We don't like the way he tortures his mark for hours.
His mark can leave the conversation at any time they choose.
But if he leaves, he forfeits all his space cash.
He's forfeiting his space cash because he got scammed. Scamming people isn't against the game's rules.
We're not discussing the scams, they're fine. We don't like the way he tortures his mark for hours.
His mark can leave the conversation at any time they choose.
But if he leaves, he forfeits all his space cash.

As of this writing, the cyclical argument has entered its 206th iteration. So far, nobody seems to have caught on.

Iteration 269.

I talk about EVE trading and general space violence in my blog.

For the ISK and the yarr!
Salvos Rhoska
#5377 - 2014-03-27 15:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

Such typing, many long post, much wasted time, wow.


As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.

It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above, and as demonstrated in my reasoning here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400021#post4400021

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5378 - 2014-03-27 15:18:55 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
Physically yes. But mentally?
Should anyone not mentally able to walk away if/when they feel 'bullied' be playing EVE in the first place?

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5379 - 2014-03-27 15:19:34 UTC
Others bring up a valid point.

EVE Online is rated TEEN - violence.

CCP simply cant afford to allow a gang of online predators to operate their pseudo-**** ring in this game, as they would be liable when a recording of a mental **** and abuse of a 12-year old kid will come out. Not a matter of if, but when.

Bottom line:

BAN THEM ALL.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5380 - 2014-03-27 15:19:53 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.

It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above.
Torture is not a part of marriage. Entering the bonus room is part of entering the bonus room.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment