These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Abrei-Kaii
Petrolinvest
#4581 - 2014-03-27 07:51:39 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It was outright predatory behavior designed and intended to cause harm to another person.

Was the person harmed? Do you have any evidence to suggest that Erotica's intention was to harm another player? I've known Erotica 1 for quite a while and I believe he has no intention of harming anyone. I've often been quite surprised by his compassion, showing sympathy in situations where I didn't.

If anything, Erotica 1 is more of a scapegoat for all of our antics. Erotica 1 is the figurehead and organizer of the operation, but everything that happens in that room aren't his own ideas. The 'mayo pic' episode, well people had their information wrong about that, so I thought people were referring to something else. It was actually peanut butter, not mayo and it wasn't even Erotica's idea. That was actually my idea, except I wanted him to use a marker pen (this was in retaliation to one of Erotica's rivals, who had one of his victims make a sign pic for him. We wanted to out-do him). The client didn't have a pen and ended up using peanut butter. I'm not sure how that happened, but I remember the client was enjoying himself. He was one of the happiest clients I've seen in the bonus room and he was just there for enjoyment. He knew he was likely to lose his assets and he didn't care. Great client all round.


You believe that this is appropriate behavior in which way again?

1B isk says your an Ero alt... any takers?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4582 - 2014-03-27 07:54:19 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dacus Minor wrote:
I do not think this should be about the victim's choice but the actions of the perpetuators and whether one considers them 'normal behavior' or not. The rest is gossip...

If you think this behavior is 'normal' then... I rest my case.

For you and all the rest that condone these actions, including Erotica1 and the gang, all I have to says is: what goes around comes around...

Most of us do not condone erotica 1's actions. I find them repulsive. But Erotica 1 broke no rules and has expressed every desire to stay within CCP's guidelines. If CCP calls for him to change or stop his behavior, he will. They have not done so.

You shouldn't be banned just because someone feels you should be banned. You get banned when you break the rules.


Don't you and I usually argue?

+1 spot on, btw.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4583 - 2014-03-27 07:54:30 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dacus Minor wrote:
I do not think this should be about the victim's choice but the actions of the perpetuators and whether one considers them 'normal behavior' or not. The rest is gossip...

If you think this behavior is 'normal' then... I rest my case.

For you and all the rest that condone these actions, including Erotica1 and the gang, all I have to says is: what goes around comes around...

Most of us do not condone erotica 1's actions. I find them repulsive. But Erotica 1 broke no rules and has expressed every desire to stay within CCP's guidelines. If CCP calls for him to change or stop his behavior, he will. They have not done so.

You shouldn't be banned just because someone feels you should be banned. You get banned when you break the rules.


I'm curious.

Were you you as understanding of Somer, who essentially said exactly the same things you are attributing to Erotica1?

Mr Epeen Cool
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4584 - 2014-03-27 07:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Abrei-Kaii wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It was outright predatory behavior designed and intended to cause harm to another person.

Was the person harmed? Do you have any evidence to suggest that Erotica's intention was to harm another player? I've known Erotica 1 for quite a while and I believe he has no intention of harming anyone. I've often been quite surprised by his compassion, showing sympathy in situations where I didn't.

If anything, Erotica 1 is more of a scapegoat for all of our antics. Erotica 1 is the figurehead and organizer of the operation, but everything that happens in that room aren't his own ideas. The 'mayo pic' episode, well people had their information wrong about that, so I thought people were referring to something else. It was actually peanut butter, not mayo and it wasn't even Erotica's idea. That was actually my idea, except I wanted him to use a marker pen (this was in retaliation to one of Erotica's rivals, who had one of his victims make a sign pic for him. We wanted to out-do him). The client didn't have a pen and ended up using peanut butter. I'm not sure how that happened, but I remember the client was enjoying himself. He was one of the happiest clients I've seen in the bonus room and he was just there for enjoyment. He knew he was likely to lose his assets and he didn't care. Great client all round.


You believe that this is appropriate behavior in which way again?

1B isk says your an Ero alt... any takers?


Yep. I'll take that bet.

Ero had a public API up today and everything.

You owe me 1B isk.

EDIT: I will happily forward 1 bil to Chribba for this bet immediately, if you do as well, pending evidence that Riot Girl and Ero 1 are two different people.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#4585 - 2014-03-27 07:55:16 UTC
This is just going round and round.
Angry shouty brigade says "bullying scumbag!"
sensible people say "its a game not reality"
Angry shouty brigade yell odd words like torture! cyber bullying! breachs of Eula! bad publicity!
sensible people patatiently explain why thats not true and in fact diminishs the meanings of those words and insults real victims of them.

then everyone goes to bed and the same stuff gets written by 2 new groups of people.

Will gank for food
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#4586 - 2014-03-27 07:55:31 UTC
Abrei-Kaii wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It was outright predatory behavior designed and intended to cause harm to another person.

Was the person harmed? Do you have any evidence to suggest that Erotica's intention was to harm another player? I've known Erotica 1 for quite a while and I believe he has no intention of harming anyone. I've often been quite surprised by his compassion, showing sympathy in situations where I didn't.

If anything, Erotica 1 is more of a scapegoat for all of our antics. Erotica 1 is the figurehead and organizer of the operation, but everything that happens in that room aren't his own ideas. The 'mayo pic' episode, well people had their information wrong about that, so I thought people were referring to something else. It was actually peanut butter, not mayo and it wasn't even Erotica's idea. That was actually my idea, except I wanted him to use a marker pen (this was in retaliation to one of Erotica's rivals, who had one of his victims make a sign pic for him. We wanted to out-do him). The client didn't have a pen and ended up using peanut butter. I'm not sure how that happened, but I remember the client was enjoying himself. He was one of the happiest clients I've seen in the bonus room and he was just there for enjoyment. He knew he was likely to lose his assets and he didn't care. Great client all round.


You believe that this is appropriate behavior in which way again?

1B isk says your an Ero alt... any takers?

Yeah, I'll take that. Just send it to my wallet, thanks.

Oh god.
Josef Djugashvilis
#4587 - 2014-03-27 07:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Do any of the folk speaking up for Ero think that the making fun of a person's speech impediment was acceptable?

I would like to think that even the most ardent 'Eve Online laissez faire' folk find the part of that whole sorry episode unacceptable.

This is not a signature.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4588 - 2014-03-27 07:56:39 UTC
The issue at hand is this: should people (that make every effort to stay within the rules, deferring to CCP's every whim) be banned because someone doesn't like them, or their actions?

Should Infinity Ziona be banned because I might not like Ziona's posting? No.
Should E1 be banned because we don't like his bonus room? I humbly submit that the answer to this is also no.
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#4589 - 2014-03-27 07:57:22 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
This is just going round and round.
Angry shouty brigade says "bullying scumbag!"
sensible people say "its a game not reality"
Angry shouty brigade yell odd words like torture! cyber bullying! breachs of Eula! bad publicity!
sensible people patatiently explain why thats not true and in fact diminishs the meanings of those words and insults real victims of them.

then everyone goes to bed and the same stuff gets written by 2 new groups of people.

Good summary of the last 230+ pages
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4590 - 2014-03-27 07:57:38 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It was outright predatory behavior designed and intended to cause harm to another person.

Was the person harmed? Do you have any evidence to suggest that Erotica's intention was to harm another player? I've known Erotica 1 for quite a while and I believe he has no intention of harming anyone. I've often been quite surprised by his compassion, showing sympathy in situations where I didn't.

If anything, Erotica 1 is more of a scapegoat for all of our antics. Erotica 1 is the figurehead and organizer of the operation, but everything that happens in that room aren't his own ideas. The 'mayo pic' episode, well people had their information wrong about that, so I thought people were referring to something else. It was actually peanut butter, not mayo and it wasn't even Erotica's idea. That was actually my idea, except I wanted him to use a marker pen (this was in retaliation to one of Erotica's rivals, who had one of his victims make a sign pic for him. We wanted to out-do him). The client didn't have a pen and ended up using peanut butter. I'm not sure how that happened, but I remember the client was enjoying himself. He was one of the happiest clients I've seen in the bonus room and he was just there for enjoyment. He knew he was likely to lose his assets and he didn't care. Great client all round.

Yes he was obviously. It comes down to reasonable perceptions. Would you want a loved one to be subjected to similar abuse in a computer game? The majority of people certainly would answer in the negative.

One can surmise the intentions of Erotica quite easily by their actions. A normal person listening to the recording would reasonably be expected to conclude that the intention of the people in the recording was to humiliate, abuse, insult, tease and make fun of this person. A reasonable person when asked if that would constitute an intention to cause harm to that person would very likely respond in the affirmative.

Stop trying to justify your unjustifiable behavior by calling the victim a 'client', you don't fool me and you likely don't fool even yourself. Your behavior is extremely poor and this is probably a wake up call for you to reassess it.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#4591 - 2014-03-27 07:58:52 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Do any of the folk speaking up for Ero think that the making fun of a person's speech impediment was acceptable?

I would like to think that even the most ardent 'Eve Online laissez faire' folk find the part of that whole sorry episode unacceptable.

Do you think that the 'victim' using racist and homophobic language, or issuing RL death threats was acceptable?

Both are in the wrong. No one should be banned just because someone 'feels offended', which is actually how this silly threadnaught got started.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#4592 - 2014-03-27 07:59:23 UTC
230 pages... is this the biggest threadnaught ever?

Ive had my say but the only way you are going to stop this type of behavior is to stop scamming. Its the scamming part that causes people to act in the way they do. If scamming isn't banned then this will continue to happen to many other people, and in fact thinking about that makes me feel very uncomfortable.

I am surprised what lengths people will and have gone to for virtual money. Scary really..

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Dacus Minor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4593 - 2014-03-27 08:00:38 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dacus Minor wrote:
I do not think this should be about the victim's choice but the actions of the perpetuators and whether one considers them 'normal behavior' or not. The rest is gossip...

If you think this behavior is 'normal' then... I rest my case.

For you and all the rest that condone these actions, including Erotica1 and the gang, all I have to says is: what goes around comes around...

Most of us do not condone erotica 1's actions. I find them repulsive. But Erotica 1 broke no rules and has expressed every desire to stay within CCP's guidelines. If CCP calls for him to change or stop his behavior, he will. They have not done so.

You shouldn't be banned just because someone feels you should be banned. You get banned when you break the rules.


While I do not like it, I can agree with the last sentence. As much as I dislike what Erotica1 did (and as much as I think he should get his fair share) as long as CCP thinks "Everything is fair game" (see the Rubicon logo) and they do not consider this a breach of EULA, all is "fair game"...

However, here I do not think we should talk about legality and whether CCP can or not be legally responsible... that is for lawyers to decide (if ever). I also don' think this is about bad or good business (in general or for CCP in particular)... that is for accountants to decide at the end of the month.

I do think this is a moral issue and about the old debate of good and evil, right or wrong and so on, and where each of us position ourselves. As I said, the rest is gossip...
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
#4594 - 2014-03-27 08:00:39 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
This is just going round and round.
Angry shouty brigade says "bullying scumbag!"
sensible people say "its a game not reality"
Angry shouty brigade yell odd words like torture! cyber bullying! breachs of Eula! bad publicity!
sensible people patatiently explain why thats not true and in fact diminishs the meanings of those words and insults real victims of them.

then everyone goes to bed and the same stuff gets written by 2 new groups of people.


I think those "sensible" people are nitpicking across the board to try and deflect from the question at hand. Do you think Erotica 1's behaviour and the bonus room is acceptable?
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#4595 - 2014-03-27 08:01:04 UTC
Quote:
Yes he was obviously. It comes down to reasonable perceptions. Would you want a loved one to be subjected to similar abuse in a computer game? The majority of people certainly would answer in the negative.


there you go, talking again like he's being forced.

Quote:
Harassment is harassment. Harming CCP's reputation and the reputation of EvE is harming CCP's reputation and the reputation of EvE.


then blame Ripard Teg.

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk
Iq Cadaen
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4596 - 2014-03-27 08:01:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Yep. I'll take that bet.

Ero had a public API up today and everything.

You owe me 1B isk.

EDIT: I will happily forward 1 bil to Chribba for this bet immediately, if you do as well, pending evidence that Riot Girl and Ero 1 are two different people.

Right, because I totally don't have 3-4 accounts like a great number of EVE players.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4597 - 2014-03-27 08:01:51 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
230 pages... is this the biggest threadnaught ever?

Ive had my say but the only way you are going to stop this type of behavior is to stop scamming. Its the scamming part that causes people to act in the way they do. If scamming isn't banned then this will continue to happen to many other people, and in fact thinking about that makes me feel very uncomfortable.

I am surprised what lengths people will and have gone to for virtual money. Scary really..



What kind of behaviour? Let's pretend for a moment that Ero did in fact engage in bad behaviour.

Welcome to the internet. Welcome to online gaming. Welcome to THE HUMAN RACE.

Ban scamming - solve nothing.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4598 - 2014-03-27 08:02:02 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Do any of the folk speaking up for Ero think that the making fun of a person's speech impediment was acceptable?

I would like to think that even the most ardent 'Eve Online laissez faire' folk find the part of the whole sorry episode unacceptable.

Absolutely disgusting. But it didn't break the rules any more then when a woman speaks on comms and you get a torrent of "Holy ****, Girls play Eve" from the degenerates in your alliance.

No one is disputing that erotica 1 is a douche.
The question is whether erotica 1 deserves a ban because we don't like this particular douche.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4599 - 2014-03-27 08:02:34 UTC
Silvara Nocturn wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
This is just going round and round.
Angry shouty brigade says "bullying scumbag!"
sensible people say "its a game not reality"
Angry shouty brigade yell odd words like torture! cyber bullying! breachs of Eula! bad publicity!
sensible people patatiently explain why thats not true and in fact diminishs the meanings of those words and insults real victims of them.

then everyone goes to bed and the same stuff gets written by 2 new groups of people.


I think those "sensible" people are nitpicking across the board to try and deflect from the question at hand. Do you think Erotica 1's behaviour and the bonus room is acceptable?


Do think banning someone who broke no rules is acceptable, just because you don't like them?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4600 - 2014-03-27 08:02:35 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Do any of the folk speaking up for Ero think that the making fun of a person's speech impediment was acceptable?

I would like to think that even the most ardent 'Eve Online laissez faire' folk find the part of that whole sorry episode unacceptable.

Do you think that the 'victim' using racist and homophobic language, or issuing RL death threats was acceptable?

Both are in the wrong. No one should be banned just because someone 'feels offended', which is actually how this silly threadnaught got started.


Correct.

But someone should be banned for using CCP's game to fish for people to then take out of game and abuse to their sick little heart's content.

Mr Epeen Cool