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embrel
BamBam Inc.
#2601 - 2014-03-26 12:25:06 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:

1. Ero engineers a game with complex rules that is designed to be hard but not impossible to win
2. Person qualifies for a bonus round (higher stakes, harder version of game) for any of a number of reasons including 100th client
3. Ero plays the game with the client in some cases for six hours after he has all their assets, thus debunking any possibility it is a scam
4. Ero is completely unsurprised when a majority can't complete the deliberately complex game, and uses their losses to pay out the small number of winners as well as making a profit, the majority of which is donated to the New Order
5. Blogger throws a losing client under his publicity bus to wage a hilariously melodramatic and over-reached vendetta against gameplay he personally considers distasteful, alongside the many other gameplay elements he considers distasteful.


The issue is not the scam. As you do not seem to see what other issues there could possibly be... well, if you really have not the slightest idea what people could find despiceable (hint: it's not the scam), then I'm worried.
Salvos Rhoska
#2602 - 2014-03-26 12:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You've expressed that seeing him harmed in real life would be a source of great pleasure for you.


False. I have expressed no such thing.

I would however enjoy the vindication of the abused over the abuser.
I do not wish any harm on Erotica1 in real life, nor would that be any source of great pleasure for me.

Unlike the great pleasure for Erotica1 in extracting suffering and anguish from the victims for several hours if necessary to psychologically "break" them in his "Bonus Room" of torture, as evidenced in the recording.

That is unequivocably proven by the recording, the repetition of this activity for an extended duration, and the fact that there is no profit to be derived from it except in the form of the gratification for sadists from the humiliation and degradation they place on another human being.

So you are deliberately misrepresenting my words, with intent to libel.
Cease and desist.

Returning to topic, Erotica1 has refused to answer a simple question put to her no less than 10 times.
This is extremely dishonest, and also considerably disrespectful towards the persons asking the question in a respectful manner.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2603 - 2014-03-26 12:25:32 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:


No, EN24 did not say it. It was a comment. A very convincing one too.


Maybe convincing for people with a predetermined bias. That would be called subjective validation. It sure didn't convince me.

Point remains.


You make me think of an awesome Monty Python skit. Also, you had a point?


Point was in a quoted post that I removed to reduce the size of the quote train that was going on. The point was, just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true.


Reversely, just because it's on EN24 does not make it untrue. Hard to believe, I know. Blink What makes me find it compelling is that it is put forward clearly and concisely and that it makes sense. We're allowed to interpret it differently and obviously do.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#2604 - 2014-03-26 12:25:53 UTC
Turelus wrote:
While I don't agree with what happens with the bonus rooms this really isn't anything new.

Pirates have been getting people to come on coms for years to answer ransoms or embarrass them, haven't we all watched this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU) in the past and had a good laugh? Or the many recordings of people singing to save their ships in ransoms.

Reading http://funkybacon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/eve-il-online-and-incredibly-silly-mr.html really reflected my opinion on the matter, the guy in this clip wasn't forced to do anything, he could have walked away at any time.

If you want CCP to start stepping in where does it end?


It's not about if it is allowed or why the victim parents were brother and sister.
It's about a sane person who uses Eve Online - > Space ships \ galaxy society \ economic simulator \ MMO > in order to find people he can humiliate in RL by recording them and then share it online for giggles.
I personally was never aware such thing happened I always assumed all scamming was done in game and if coms were involved it would have been in civilized manner as this is a GAME = > humiliating people when no further profit is to be made shows the only purpose of this is for humiliating sake and that's shows u something about the person doing that.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2605 - 2014-03-26 12:26:20 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Icylce wrote:

1.Erotica1 knows that there is high chance that he will get insulted by eveplayer if he does something considered "evil"(link to minerbumping + empyric experiece from various scams).
2. Erotica1 scams person, then puts him into bonus round.
3. Erotica1 puts the player in bonus round in helpless state (takes all assets) and aplies psychical pressure.
4. Erotica1 is surprised when said person breaks and insults him.
Conclusion:
I can't read.


1. Ero engineers a game with complex rules that is designed to be hard but not impossible to win
2. Person qualifies for a bonus round (higher stakes, harder version of game) for any of a number of reasons including 100th client
3. Ero plays the game with the client in some cases for six hours after he has all their assets, thus debunking any possibility it is a scam
4. Ero is completely unsurprised when a majority can't complete the deliberately complex game, and uses their losses to pay out the small number of winners as well as making a profit, the majority of which is donated to the New Order
5. Blogger throws a losing client under his publicity bus to wage a hilariously melodramatic and over-reached vendetta against gameplay he personally considers distasteful, alongside the many other gameplay elements he considers distasteful.

Ugh

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#2606 - 2014-03-26 12:26:47 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Can we have a 120 page threadnought about all the people who play the game the way I don't like i.e everyone who invades my designated personal constellation.


feel free to start one. Btw, the threadnaught is not about something that occurs in-game so it can hardly be called a thread about playstyle.
Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
#2607 - 2014-03-26 12:26:51 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Some people should start answering the questions, instead of avoiding them.


They were answered. They were ignored. As I suspected, no one's really interested in answers, just a witchhunt.


No they were not.

If you'd be so kind as to point out Erotica's answer to this question that has been ignored many times by him, i'd be ever so appreciative, instead you seem to be blindly defending an indefensible event.

I've quoted the simple question below for your convenience and look forward to the reply.

Big Lynx wrote:

Fourth attempt:

Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far?



If you were actually interested in an answer, and not just hating for hatred's sake, and hadn't already made up your mind on the matter, with extreme prejudice...

You'd go find it for yourself. You'd WANT to find it for yourself.


You truly believe all this is just hating for hating's sake? You honestly believe that?

I've wanted to find Erotica's answer to this question for many hours, but still find no reply to it from the first post after it was posted because it was simply ignored by him. That was his choice, it's not mandatory to answer difficult questions if you don't want to, but what it does achieve, is to reveal a lot about that person from something as simple as silence.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2608 - 2014-03-26 12:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Malcanis wrote:
Plenty of people are happy to call homosexuals "obvious piece(s) of filth".


Yes. You'll find most of those in your coalition.

Although there is an element of nastiness in all online communities, EVE really is in rancid league of it's own.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#2609 - 2014-03-26 12:27:47 UTC
I have been playing this game for many many years now, and have never really been comfortable with the whole scamming thing. I think it spoils the game and actually drives people away. Scamming as become so prevalent in Eve its over taken the good aspects of it. Look at jita every single post in chat is a scam.

I dont like the fact that goonswarm do this constantly to a point its part of their culture, and sometimes the way they do it is a little creepy and weird and wrong.

But this is a whole new level, and its just not about a scam, its cyber bullying, torture at is very worse. I am sure this is certainly not the first case of this and its happening to others by other eve players.

You can hear from the start where this was going, and Erotica1 sounds really creepy tbh. They carried on for 2 hours, even when they knew the guy was getting upset, this is when you stop. Actually it should of never started.

This is for me the real darkside of eve, and where scamming takes it past gameplay. I have never played or seen a game that allows this to happen, or even breeds that type of person. The very idea of scamming has created these people, and CCP certainly has to take brunt of the blame for this as they endorse this type of behavior, but its gone a a step too far. as stated I am sure there are many Erotica1s lurking about.

This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.

However being a veteran player of this game, even after the time an investment i have made, every moral fibre in me is twitching. I am now seriously thinking do i want to pay, play or be a part of this game, ccp and its community if this is something that is happening to people. I certainly do not want to be associated with an organisation or game that endorses such actions and game play anymore.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2610 - 2014-03-26 12:28:08 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I'm here simply to address the flood of burning hatred and mouth froth stinking up my forums. Also, because it's entertaining. Stupid people are fun.


You realize this makes most people just ignore you , don't you? Don't answer that, I'm not bothering with you no more.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2611 - 2014-03-26 12:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
False. I have expressed no such thing.

...
...

So you are deliberately misrepresenting my words, with intent to libel...

Actually you wrote more than once that you would laugh and applaud at seeing someone kick him in the head.

You also wrote that you would seize his assets and ban his accounts just to see him rage and cry (and that this would be hilarious).

You also offered to give Ramona what she deserved out of game if she wanted it. (Clearly that one is open to interpretation, but it's more likely than not that you weren't implying anything that Ramona would find pleasing).

There is no misinterpretation with any intent to libel.

It's an unfortunate way you wrote what you did, on more than one occasion.
MoonWalker Charlie
NorCorp Security
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2612 - 2014-03-26 12:28:30 UTC
I see a lot of people calling for bans, which i dont see necessary.. Why not rather Concord his ass, seize all his (Ip) assets except a ship and what it can carry, make him a permanent outlaw from empire space, and let him continue playing as a lowsec pirate for a year or two, which in effect stops his "business" of abuse.

Further more seize 10% of the combined assets of his accomplices, so they can for the forseable future remind E1 that a bad idea is bad.

Take the assets and donate them to an organisation for child abuse or simmilar. problem solved, ccp image restored, playerbase satisfied.

Now that would give me a god giggle..
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2613 - 2014-03-26 12:29:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Fyi , **** and torture comparisons are completely and utterly ridiculous and offensive.
Seriously get your **** together with this.
It's a game, I know a couple of victims, thies comparisons deminish the severity of both and loose the community respect by the letter.


but this didn't happen in game did it ................... or are you saying that TS coms and the proceedings that followed are part of the game ?

So which is it to be........

CCP do nothing because this was out of the game or CCP do something because it was a game, part of the game, part of EVE. you can't have it both ways.

If this was part of the game then CCP will have to either publicly support this as emergent game play and take what ever media bashing comes with that or CCP have to say it was not part of the game in which case the repercussions could be worse if a main stream media channel gets hold of this and makes a correlation between what they call "Sociopathic Behaviour" and EVE online.

This whole situation is a massive ****-sandwich for CCP. I would hazard a guess that gaming site journo's are all over this thread working out if they have got something juicy to shitpost on their columns much like the fanfest incident in 2012. This kind of brings all of us under the microscope and what happens here today could impact our chosen hobby of playing EVE online in a negative way if CCP don't bring this under control
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#2614 - 2014-03-26 12:30:05 UTC
MoonWalker Charlie wrote:
I see a lot of people calling for bans, which i dont see necessary.. Why not rather Concord his ass, seize all his (Ip) assets except a ship and what it can carry, make him a permanent outlaw from empire space, and let him continue playing as a lowsec pirate for a year or two, which in effect stops his "business" of abuse.

Further more seize 10% of the combined assets of his accomplices, so they can for the forseable future remind E1 that a bad idea is bad.

Take the assets and donate them to an organisation for child abuse or simmilar. problem solved, ccp image restored, playerbase satisfied.

Now that would give me a god giggle..


Emergent Gameplay. Lol
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#2615 - 2014-03-26 12:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
I love the risky nature of EvE but I think the bonus room does take things a little too far. Surprisingly in a game so cut-throat, there are a lot of gullible people that play. Why someone would give all their assets to someone is either greed, stupidity, or a mixture of both.

The guy was obviously losing it in RL, why the hell would you keep going? Humiliating people in real life for your entertainment is pretty pathetic. To be quite honest now that I've actually heard the recording, I am not even sure if I want to play this game anymore. Not that scammers affect my game play personally, I just don't see the point in playing a game that breeds and allows this kind of toxic behavior to exist.

EDIT: I am not calling for a ban but the whole attitude of "we not only allow scamming but even encourage it" has got to go away. I look forward to CCP's opinion on this.

Pras Phil.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2616 - 2014-03-26 12:30:53 UTC
MoonWalker Charlie wrote:
I see a lot of people calling for bans, which i dont see necessary.. Why not rather Concord his ass, seize all his (Ip) assets except a ship and what it can carry, make him a permanent outlaw from empire space, and let him continue playing as a lowsec pirate for a year or two, which in effect stops his "business" of abuse.

Further more seize 10% of the combined assets of his accomplices, so they can for the forseable future remind E1 that a bad idea is bad.

Take the assets and donate them to an organisation for child abuse or simmilar. problem solved, ccp image restored, playerbase satisfied.

Now that would give me a god giggle..



More mob mentality garbage. You're all far worse then what you think E1 is.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#2617 - 2014-03-26 12:32:55 UTC
Upde wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Fyi , **** and torture comparisons are completely and utterly ridiculous and offensive.
Seriously get your **** together with this.
It's a game, I know a couple of victims, thies comparisons deminish the severity of both and loose the community respect by the letter.


but this didn't happen in game did it ................... or are you saying that TS coms and the proceedings that followed are part of the game ?

So which is it to be........

CCP do nothing because this was out of the game or CCP do something because it was a game, part of the game, part of EVE. you can't have it both ways.

If this was part of the game then CCP will have to either publicly support this as emergent game play and take what ever media bashing comes with that or CCP have to say it was not part of the game in which case the repercussions could be worse if a main stream media channel gets hold of this and makes a correlation between what they call "Sociopathic Behaviour" and EVE online.

This whole situation is a massive ****-sandwich for CCP. I would hazard a guess that gaming site journo's are all over this thread working out if they have got something juicy to shitpost on their columns much like the fanfest incident in 2012. This kind of brings all of us under the microscope and what happens here today could impact our chosen hobby of playing EVE online in a negative way if CCP don't bring this under control



Sorry what!? Are you joking? Of course its part of the game. He was trying to scam a person that he met in game. The reason he is scamming is to get assets in game. The idea of scamming is from the game.

its completely and utterly linked with the game. Just because they used a out of game comms program is completely irrelevant.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2618 - 2014-03-26 12:33:40 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:


No, EN24 did not say it. It was a comment. A very convincing one too.


Maybe convincing for people with a predetermined bias. That would be called subjective validation. It sure didn't convince me.

Point remains.


You make me think of an awesome Monty Python skit. Also, you had a point?


Point was in a quoted post that I removed to reduce the size of the quote train that was going on. The point was, just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true.


Reversely, just because it's on EN24 does not make it untrue. Hard to believe, I know. Blink What makes me find it compelling is that it is put forward clearly and concisely and that it makes sense. We're allowed to interpret it differently and obviously do.


No, it died when it tried to make claims with false premises. One of these false premises was the Ero had no intention of honouring the reward if he passed the bonus round.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#2619 - 2014-03-26 12:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
This may spark a civil war.
It will eclipse B-R.
Erotica 1 will be the face that launched 10000 ships.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#2620 - 2014-03-26 12:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Demica Diaz
Victim could hang the phone and do something else. Am I right?

On the other hand is that how far this kind of scamming is allowed in game until CCP interferes. Most of us players move on and if scammed frown and continue existing but there is this 0.01% where guy might end his life over this and as absurd as it sounds it happened in other games before. Recently in LOL (even though victim didnt die). This would create tonns of troubles and none wants that. So line needs to be drawn and as much as I agree that it should be allowed to scam people in EVE, there has to be limit of how far can you take it. People who scam ISK and continue playing normally is fine, but those who go ahead and continue to manipulate victims for their personal amusement should be removed from game permanently.