EVE General Discussion

oh if there are new people on here come to haoula to learn how to play eve the right way but blowin $h!t up.

snitches out

For the contestant's sake I hope this doesn't make the news.

It might draw the attention of the law onto them for the RL threats made.

Ha. Funny as hell. My wife is a Newfie through and through. Was gonna reply to Mag's post, but didn't think anyone would know what a newfie was.

I'm sorry, whoever you are, if I inadvertently quoted whatever you had said. To be fair, it didn't stand out enough for it to register in my mind.

I was referencing one of the community's heavy hitters and that was Baltec1. His forum and in-game presence have meaning within the game and as such I wanted to call him out over an issue.

Please go back to whatever it was you were saying earlier, I will try and read it as soon as I finish reading what everyone has written first.

Sorry again.

I was personally surprised to the extent of this "scam". I use "scam" as I am at a loss for other words, cruelty, humiliation, exploitation, bullying, torture or just basic inhumanity.

I realise CCP pride themselves in creating the sandbox for us all to play in, but sometimes intervention is needed. CCP are the only people who can help protect against this cyber bullying in the universe which they created.

I only just learned about this bonus room thing, and it has honestly made me think twice about wanting to be associated with a game which allows and even takes pride in promoting this kind of behaviour.

Erotica1 is sourcing his victims from EVEs community for an out of game "Bonus Room" torture session.

There is no ISK in it. There is nothing related to the game, except the victim, at all in it.
The only outcome and purpose, is causing harm and suffering to the victim which is then recorded for the amusement of other sadists.

He finds his victims from the EVE player base by means of his (legitimate) ISK doubling activities ingame.

Once he has a hook in them, he then convinces them to hand over their assets (again, legitimately).

What is NOT legitimate, is telling those people that they have to join an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" to get it back.

That crosses the line. At that point you are illegitimately carrying an EVE Scam to the person themselves, in a context that extends outside the purview of the game.

This is explicitly forbidden and ruled against in the EULA and also by this declaration in the CSM constitution:

"FREEDOM FROM UNDUE EXTERNAL INFLUENCES
First, individuals have the right to be free of undue external influences in the virtual society. To enforce this
right, the EULA, TOS and other legal documents define the boundary which separates a player’s real life actions
from his or her virtual ones. As mentioned earlier, this is a non-negotiable social contract that is essential for
maintaining the cohesion of any virtual society. These rules establish a framework for real world personal
behavior and decision making that limits the amount of external influence that can be leveraged in the game
world"

At the point that Erotica1 makes it a condition of his scam that someones steps OUTSIDE of EVE in order to participate, he is extending the scam beyond the purview of EVE. Furthermore, if successful in luring a victim to his "Bonus Room" he is externally influencing that person, externally from the game, on the specific contract/scam that he offered to the player ingame.

If there are people who are sourcing their victims from within the CCP provided service, for OUT OF GAME criminal activity, CCP must protect its player base. We sign a EULA specifically in the unilateral understanding that we are to be protected from people trying to exploit or predate on us in an external capacity that extends beyond the purview of the game but originates from within it.

Don't need my help for that. The American public are doing a fine job of it all on their own.

Mr Epeen

Well with CNN/FOX you can bet that there would be considerable delay in any reporting because they would want to dig up some scholars and politicians who can use the "incident" to call for more laws. Never let a crises go to waste you know.


Infowars is more likely to pick up the story because they call out the frivolity of "srs business" of MMOs more consistently.

@Malcanis: The Nuremberg defense aka "I stayed within the laws" doesn't always work. And in this case "the laws" aka the EULA doesn't provide any protection anyways, CCP can ban any player whenever they want for whatever they want. So the premise "i stayed within the rules so CCP can't ban me", is flawed from the start.

The question therefore is not whether CCP can ban these dudes but whether they should, essentially it is a PR/Damage Control issue. However you probably have a point. It is probably better not to ban them for consistency. I think however CCP (and players for that matter) should clearly distance themselves from that kind behavior. At the same time it should be made clear, that what those people did, happened outside Eve.

The matter of the issue is, that to play a sociopath in character is fine, to be one in real life or to be associated with one in real life is not.

And to all those people justifying those actions because "it was his own fault": empathy also (and sometimes especially) applies to idiots as well.

can i just ask, WHY you did that? i mean you did psuh this innocent man over the edge for a bullshit gain