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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#561 - 2014-03-25 18:11:26 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.



What benefit would Ero get by doing that?

I mean, is there anything E1 could say, that would prevent you from wanting to hang him/her from the yardarm RL?


Well god forbid it won't benefit him. What was I thinking? Forget I ever asked.

It's not like I expect him to go 'oh yeah, maybe I've gone a little too far sometimes. I'll tone it down in the future'. But basically any serious response (either positive or negative) would be better than "I do it for the lulz, your tears are delicious".

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#562 - 2014-03-25 18:12:57 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Everywhere you look you see a kind of societal collapse taking place.



??????
Sorry wat

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#563 - 2014-03-25 18:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
Malcanis wrote:
I'm not defending what erotica1 does


I'm afraid you are.

What you meant? Maybe not. But it's the logical consequence of what you said

see what I did there?

Malcanis wrote:
I'm defending his right to fair treatment and due process according to the rules.

You're the kind of guy who'd argue for a rapist to go free on a technicality then. Right? Because observation of arbitrary rules should trump justice?

Let's really get the heat off Erotica1. Let's talk about the CSM who defends harassment, mental abuse and torture because it's "not against the rules".

Malcanis wrote:
I sincerely hope that you never have the occasion to experience it in reality.

Great representative of the community. If my constituents hurt, it's ok as long as it doesn't happen to me.

Well played friend.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Gajin Sensei
Poliisin Vanha Tuttu
#564 - 2014-03-25 18:13:23 UTC
Regardless of both parties contributing to the issue in that recording and if this merits a ban or not, that **** is ****** up .
Salvos Rhoska
#565 - 2014-03-25 18:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Erotica1s ingame activities are fine.

It is his out of game activities which are in my view absolutely illegal.

Play that recording to any judge or jury, and explain the context to them, and they will imo certainly find in favor of the plaintiff.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#566 - 2014-03-25 18:13:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Just ban Erotica1. The community does not need poisonous twats like that - and I for one am happy for the sandbox and 'emergent gameplay' to take second seat to cleaning the community of such filth.


People talk about gays in very similar terms to the ones you have used in your post.

Come to that, so have insane monogonadal austrian dictators.



Sure, and for many years that was considered an acceptable way to treat/speak about homosexuals. That is thankfully changing.

But dont try and compare this to homophobia, or german dictators for god's sake! Discriminating and vilifying minority groups is not the same as disliking and calling for action against a bullying sociopath...


Can you give me a reliable method of distinguishing them that doesn't boil down to "stuff that you personally dislike"?

I find brussels sprouts disgusting; just the thought of them makes me heave a little. Can I petition to get someone banned because they post recipes for them in local?

If not, then you're saying that only the things you find disgusting are a problem. Things I find disgusting and things evengelical christians find disgusting are just fine, however. Am I right?

Far simpler for CCP to not try and be 400,000 people's mom and stay the hell out of our out of game activities, don't you think?


Well Malcanis.

Our country is controlled by people who fall over themselves to take offence where none was meant, who have a hard on for banning activities and opinions they don't like. They're called Guardian readers, and they are the esablishment.

Having said that Eve has a well deserved reputation as a haven for cyberbulling and general nastiness. I wonder why?

I think the sort of malice exhibited by this Erotica1 persons actions needs to be stamped on hard. Of course, I don't expect the seven-stone forum tough guys to understand at all.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#567 - 2014-03-25 18:14:49 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

You're the kind of guy who'd argue for a rapist to go free on a technicality then. Right? Because observation of arbitrary rules should trump justice?


No he's saying that everyone no matter how "obvious" a criminal they are should get their time in court in front of 12 and true.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Niec Mogul
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#568 - 2014-03-25 18:15:12 UTC
My curiosity got the better of me and I went and listened to the recording. Admittedly, I skipped forward often, but it wasn't hard to get the gist of it.

Holy cow what a cringe-fest. It's like watching a bunch of older kids play "keep-away" on some Kindergartner.

Seriously; just rip the guy off, send him an EVEmail letting him know he's a sucker, and move on. Dragging this **** on for 2+ hours is just ridiculous.

Sure, the guy blew up at the end and made all kinds of rude comments. He's a big 'ole jerkface for that. But that doesn't mean the people needling him and giggling for the 120 preceding minutes are any less of a pack of jerkfaces for what they've done.

I challenge Erotica1 et. al. to listen to this crap in 5 years and not just wince at the sound of their own jackassery.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#569 - 2014-03-25 18:15:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Did you or did you not advocate whipping up a damaging media shitstorm?

Damaging to whom? If the content is as benign as you would have us believe, then there will be no shitstorm.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
I Riven I
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#570 - 2014-03-25 18:15:53 UTC
Guys can you all please calm down here??

ITS JUST MONEY!!

IF ITS $100 OR $1000 .. IT STILL JUST POCKET MONEY AND NOT A BANK ROBBERY OF MILLIONS.


So much drama out of a couple hundreds..
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#571 - 2014-03-25 18:16:00 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

As I said before, it's not when the popular handsome hero is on trial that our dedication to justice is tested. It's when the unpopular, ugly, awful unpleasant defendant needs a fair hearing.

That's when we really see who cares about doing what's right.


That's a good point. The guy who got griefed is obviously not popular in-game, no one has heard of him. He has a speech impediment and is from the sound of things gullible. All things that make him ripe for ridicule, apparently.

Meanwhile, Erotica1 has many friends on the forums who don't want to see him punished, they are out in droves trying to justify that recording. They don't want their "fun" or their popular guy threatened.

So Malcanis, you "white knght" Erotica1 because he is "somebody" in the community and the other guy is a "nobody"

So you are backing the "in crowd" over the "outcast". That's justice for you...


Look at the hoops people go through to twist things around. I think it's childish.

It's not about popularity, it's about what is expected of adults. The 'victim' went willingly into a bad situation and got owned and blew up about it (while at the very same time exposing himself as a potentially violent racist).

Malcanis is supporting reason and due process over emotion and mob justice and mysticism and and giant persian elephants....Damn, i should never post while watching '300' reruns.


Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#572 - 2014-03-25 18:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

Our country is controlled by people who fall over themselves to take offence where none was meant, who have a hard on for banning activities and opinions they don't like. They're called Guardian readers, and they are the esablishment.



Actually, they are called Daily Mail readers and they are reactionary fools who voted in a mix of impotent pretend centralists and the Tories

and they control jack all because they arent Managing Directors and the CEOs of the banks

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#573 - 2014-03-25 18:18:16 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#574 - 2014-03-25 18:18:42 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Let's get more theoretical then....


Suppose pedos were using Eve Online as a means of contacting underage people for their sick plans. Would that make it OK because it's OUTSIDE OF THE GAME ?


I'm not really sure of what you're trying to get at with your hypothetical. Pedophilia is a real world crime and is punished by authorities, at least in the US, regardless of the medium. If you are suggesting that scamming, stealing, and all sorts of other crime in Eve should be punished by the authorities because they are real world crimes, then I think you are in the vast minority of players of Eve. But I somehow don't think you are saying that.

Scamming, stealing, blackmailing, and other "crimes" are all legal and can be legal inside of the game because the assets aren't actually ours or owned by us. CCP owns them and can decide what players in their game can do with them. So in reality, these aren't real world crimes, but valid game play.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#575 - 2014-03-25 18:18:55 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
No he's saying that everyone no matter how "obvious" a criminal they are should get their time in court in front of 12 and true.


so Malcanis is advocating for out of game legal action now? That's news to me.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#576 - 2014-03-25 18:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadl
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Actually it's very different, extortion and blackmail in real life involves real currency and assets, generally owned by or the responsibility of the victim. The real life currencies and assets are generally not recoverable by their legitimate owner after the crime has been committed.

In Eve every single asset and item of currency belongs to CCP, not the individual being blackmailed, as such if those assets and currency stay within the game they remain the property of CCP. Nothing is stolen from the legitimate owners of the property, which is CCP. All assets and currency held by players are on loan from the owners of said items, CCP.

Nothing of any value is lost to ingame blackmail, scamming or ransom. It all remains the property of CCP who can take it back at any time, for any reason they see fit.


Erotica1 was clearly looking for services, actions to be performed by Sohkar (and others). Those actions were to be performed outside of the game on a Teamspeak server. Erotica1 may have used coercion to obtain those services. Thus a crime of extortion may have been committed.

If the activities were outside the game then Erotica1 was clearly offering in game items (or to make in game actions) in return for out of game services (or actions). It may be that Erotica1 had no intention of providing those in game items (or in making certain in game actions).
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#577 - 2014-03-25 18:20:10 UTC
I Riven I wrote:
Guys can you all please calm down here??

ITS JUST MONEY!!

IF ITS $100 OR $1000 .. IT STILL JUST POCKET MONEY AND NOT A BANK ROBBERY OF MILLIONS.


So much drama out of a couple hundreds..


This stopped being about the money like 26 pages ago...

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#578 - 2014-03-25 18:20:21 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
No he's saying that everyone no matter how "obvious" a criminal they are should get their time in court in front of 12 and true.


so Malcanis is advocating for out of game legal action now? That's news to me.


What does due process mean to you then?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#579 - 2014-03-25 18:21:35 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Meanwhile, Erotica1 has many friends on the forums who don't want to see him punished, they are out in droves trying to justify that recording. They don't want their "fun" or their popular guy threatened.

So Malcanis, you "white knght" Erotica1 because he is "somebody" in the community and the other guy is a "nobody"


You're saying that the Eve playerbase is incapable of altruism and uninterested in justice, both of which are demonstrably false. There are plenty of people who are not friends with Erotica1, or gankers, or scammers, or the mittani, or whoever else, that are willing to defend their actions as being legitimate gameplay. Sadisticly taunting a moron isn't justified by that person being a moron, but neither is it true that any morally reprehensible action should automatically merit a ban regardless of aggravating or mitigating circumstances.

ShipSpin wrote:
Harassment is a real world crime regardless of where it happens.


True, but unless erotica1 et al dox the guy and start calling him, emailing him, contacting his friends & family, or otherwise defame him, its still not harassment. Getting **** on via a consensual phone call that you've consented to have recorded is not harassment.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#580 - 2014-03-25 18:21:36 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Actually, they are called Daily Mail readers and they are reactionary fools who voted in a mix of impotent pretend centralists and the Tories
TBH 99% of the UKs politicians are out of touch trust fund morons, regardless of their political affiliations. The Daily Mail itself is pretty much Fox News printed on paper.

We're pretty screwed when Boris is the only politician who is worth giving a damn about.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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