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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Anslo
Scope Works
#661 - 2013-12-20 18:01:17 UTC
Fine. Your conviction (i.e. Opinion) is fine. But is that, an opinion. And I never said WiS was the solution to all Eve's problems. I am saying that there is little reason to deny step by step implementation of meaningful avatar content.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#662 - 2013-12-20 18:07:24 UTC
feeding christmas fedos in stations.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#663 - 2013-12-20 19:09:57 UTC
Muestereate wrote:
My Fedo is walking in stations

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Dr Vitoc
The Huskarl's
#664 - 2013-12-20 19:22:45 UTC
No real point about Wis unless they are going to have sub games in side like WOW dungeons oh yea and showing your epeen DUST trophies
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#665 - 2013-12-20 20:46:39 UTC
Dr Vitoc wrote:
No real point about Wis unless they are going to have sub games in side like WOW dungeons oh yea and showing your epeen DUST trophies



Epeen measuring will be a new source of PvP content.



Hmmm....

Let me amend that:

It will be a source of PvP content, as it's hardly new around here...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#666 - 2013-12-20 21:48:17 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Fellon... do you think I'm in the anti-WiS crowd?


That is not relevant to my point. I could care less what "crowd" you are in. You are allowed your opinion, but you don't get to tell others what they would or would not enjoy. You are no authority on the topic of WiS anymore than I am.

The difference is: I recognize that fact.


James Earl Jones voice:

And with one shot on the Bow, the wall of WiS solidarity began to crack. It would not be long before Angry Avatars weliding beer bottles and the used coat hangers of their Nex Store clothes would be charging at each other in what would be known as the Ambulation Civil War.

James Earl Jones voice.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#667 - 2013-12-20 23:16:27 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
No one said controlling spaceship in newtonian enviroment had to be easy without a Combat Computer. It was real, more real than EVE ever will be when we talk physics or scale. But there is one downside I will agree every time, it was single player only game.


Oh I entirely agree

Thats why I will give ELITE: Dangerous a try

But I feel she may ignore the parts that make EvE so good, even if she still retains the things that make Elite so good too.


But I want a Fer-De-Lance!

And an Asp


I want a python, and hope the market place is as dynamic as the eve one.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
#668 - 2013-12-21 01:18:47 UTC
Logical 101 wrote:
CCP seem fairly certain that it's not going to go down like a lead balloon and I am inclined to stick with the opinion of the experts for the most part.


Wow... I haven't read past this point yet so I hope no one else said the same thing already, but are you by chance talking about the same experts who thought all the other content they showed at Fanfest would be good, but we've yet to see? Or the same experts who thought micro transactions in a subscription based business model would be a good idea? The the experts that many of us here have memories of dropping more meaningful content for EVE than we've actually seen make it in game? Those ones? I hope not...

If I've misread something or am misunderstanding you, I apologize (I really do). Anyone here ever played Sony Online Entertainment's "Star Wars Galaxies" before the CU and NGE? Now those people know what it's like to lose faith in a company. CCP has seemingly promised so much to their players, but come through on so little, with only minor changes here and there and a couple new ships and modules given to appease us. When was the last time CCP brought something new and fresh into this game, something that opened doors to a new and incredible future for EVE Online? It's rhetorical by the way, I think you guys already know that answer, because that's what we're all here talking about.

I'll never understand why it seems like so many people are settling for the same old garbage. Even if it's newly wrapped garbage. How has EVE made it's success off of this? I'll never get it. Where's the innovation in game play or the realization of dreams that made EVE Online top dog in the first place? I mean I KNOW there are those at CCP who dream for this game, but I think they are held back. And the bitterness in me (I openly admit it) truly feels it's the players that have done so. I think those dreams came in the form of Dust, and another coming in the form of Valkyrie. I always thought (and still do) that they were meant to be part of a whole, and not separated as they are. Yes, I get the stupid marketing bull crap idea to branch out to consoles. But I feel like these different aspects of the EVE Universe could have been part of the same experience as a whole in the first place. Can you even imagine EVE Online as a sci-fi simulator that encompasses more than just flying a fancy chunk of metal through space? What that would be like to be part of a living breathing universe that you can actually be a part of in more ways than one? Well... I guess many will say "but this is a game about internet SPACESHIPS!" I can't argue with that, and I won't. But I can't be blamed for being sore in feeling that EVE Online, the glory of experiencing it's entire universe, is being held back (for whatever reasons those may be). I'm just... someone who wanted to see EVE Online become more than it's always been, to see it evolve.

And it may yet, time will tell. *shrugs*

Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#669 - 2013-12-21 02:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical 101
Thellorms Nor'Fein wrote:
Can you even imagine EVE Online as a sci-fi simulator that encompasses more than just flying a fancy chunk of metal through space? What that would be like to be part of a living breathing universe that you can actually be a part of in more ways than one?

See, we're about to go into some deep, scary, mostly uncharted waters here.

This is not going to be easy to frame correctly, but I will try, without prejudice, to explain why I have become a bit cynical and conservative when it comes to my opinions and expectations for games like EVE.

The "living, breathing universe" that is EVE has nothing to do with the actual game itself. The game is a platform for human interaction. Interaction remarkably different than what is happening in this thread. Different than what is happening in any thread on any forums. It begins with the login. Then the fascination. Then the moderate addiction. And while this happening, you are become more and more social in this environment. You start talking on comms. You make friends there. You become invested in whatever plan your corp or alliance or whatever is cooking up, as well as in the people who make up those groups.

And now you're knee-deep in EVE's comparatively unique brand of "living and breathing". Because here, both the good and the bad just hangs out. There is fame. There is infamy. There is an actual, tangible connection to the community that extends far beyond what conventional mmos offer. Star Wars Galaxies, as you mentioned, had a touch of this. The canvas of that game was painted with depth of mind and a love of freedom. Here, too, we have it. Only it's bigger. And we laugh louder. And we rage harder. And we get all up in each other's faces and each other's businesses. And we compete.

This environment has been constructed around the core concepts of mass coordination, group participation, the risk of significant loss, and the grandeur of deep space. So far, CCP has maintained and even built constructively upon the platform we log into when we fire EVE up. However, in terms of where we (as players) want the company to go, opinions have always been as firm and competitive as the rest of the game. In this instance, my opinion is that further developing avatar content (and ultimately maintaining and improving it) leads the game away from the aforementioned core features.

As it has been said, it is basically two different games. Not only does this threaten the established framework and daily processes of EVE's player base, the backlash from a failure to engineer and deploy it effectively has the potential to diminish the game's overall appeal. So I understand the WiS supporter perspective that EVE could benefit from that sort of content. I just don't feel that way myself. A divergent, competitive opinion.
Beta Maoye
#670 - 2013-12-21 02:52:46 UTC
I hope they can consider to reopen the Walk in Station project. No doubt flying internet space ship is fun, but avatars of giant space machines just do not give the feeling of human interaction, the feeling of understanding and sharing another pilot’s experience and emotion. The project can be started small. A small meeting room or a small pub, at which people can gather together, can make a big difference. Then they can gradually add, one at a time, other contents such as ship hangar, medical centre, fashion shop, beauty shop, corporation premises or even mini games inside the station.

I think those new contents will also be appeal to new players who accustomed to use humanoid avatars in other online games.
Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
#671 - 2013-12-21 05:37:23 UTC
Logical 101 wrote:
Thellorms Nor'Fein wrote:
Can you even imagine EVE Online as a sci-fi simulator that encompasses more than just flying a fancy chunk of metal through space? What that would be like to be part of a living breathing universe that you can actually be a part of in more ways than one?

See, we're about to go into some deep, scary, mostly uncharted waters here.

This is not going to be easy to frame correctly, but I will try, without prejudice, to explain why I have become a bit cynical and conservative when it comes to my opinions and expectations for games like EVE.

The "living, breathing universe" that is EVE has nothing to do with the actual game itself. The game is a platform for human interaction. Interaction remarkably different than what is happening in this thread. Different than what is happening in any thread on any forums. It begins with the login. Then the fascination. Then the moderate addiction. And while this happening, you are become more and more social in this environment. You start talking on comms. You make friends there. You become invested in whatever plan your corp or alliance or whatever is cooking up, as well as in the people who make up those groups.

And now you're knee-deep in EVE's comparatively unique brand of "living and breathing". Because here, both the good and the bad just hangs out. There is fame. There is infamy. There is an actual, tangible connection to the community that extends far beyond what conventional mmos offer. Star Wars Galaxies, as you mentioned, had a touch of this. The canvas of that game was painted with depth of mind and a love of freedom. Here, too, we have it. Only it's bigger. And we laugh louder. And we rage harder. And we get all up in each other's faces and each other's businesses. And we compete.

This environment has been constructed around the core concepts of mass coordination, group participation, the risk of significant loss, and the grandeur of deep space. So far, CCP has maintained and even built constructively upon the platform we log into when we fire EVE up. However, in terms of where we (as players) want the company to go, opinions have always been as firm and competitive as the rest of the game. In this instance, my opinion is that further developing avatar content (and ultimately maintaining and improving it) leads the game away from the aforementioned core features.

As it has been said, it is basically two different games. Not only does this threaten the established framework and daily processes of EVE's player base, the backlash from a failure to engineer and deploy it effectively has the potential to diminish the game's overall appeal. So I understand the WiS supporter perspective that EVE could benefit from that sort of content. I just don't feel that way myself. A divergent, competitive opinion.


I certainly don't agree 100%, but well said none the less. I honestly don't think I'm looking into this as deeply as you are. I am a player of EVE Online, who's invested years and many good and bad times. I know I'm not the only one out there who's made EVE Online a real part of their life. A combination of this history, and the desire to dream bigger, is why I am here in this thread, and why I want nothing less than to see EVE Online grow. In growing, I mean to further it's success, but also to see it's capabilities increase, as well as what it offers every player out there. My desire to see a 'more fleshed out' EVE Online may be selfish, but as evident in this forum (and others seperate from this site as well), I am not the only one that desires something akin to a 'second life experience' in EVE Online. I'm not the only player who feels closer to the my character and to the game by being able to visually step into the shoes of my character via the avatar, and as a natural side effect comes a desire to be able to do more in this aspect.

I'm just one man, with my own opinion, but I take solace in knowing I'm not alone in what I desire here. It gives me hope that as long as CCP cares about their player base (this is an assumption as of late), they will do something beyond a new ship, module, or rebalance for players like me. Wether that makes any sense to you or anyone else, or wether you feel it is right or wrong or justified, is irrelevant and I am just a part of a greater whole, and not a soul here can speak for everyone (nor should they, though it seems some are still trying). In short, these are MY hopes and MY dreams, and I'm here because I want CCP to do something about it, and because I want to know that I am in fact not alone.

Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#672 - 2013-12-21 09:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Logical 101 wrote:

See, we're about to go into some deep, scary, mostly uncharted waters here.

This is not going to be easy to frame correctly, but I will try, without prejudice, to explain why I have become a bit cynical and conservative when it comes to my opinions and expectations for games like EVE.

The "living, breathing universe" that is EVE has nothing to do with the actual game itself. The game is a platform for human interaction. Interaction remarkably different than what is happening in this thread. Different than what is happening in any thread on any forums. It begins with the login. Then the fascination. Then the moderate addiction. And while this happening, you are become more and more social in this environment. You start talking on comms. You make friends there. You become invested in whatever plan your corp or alliance or whatever is cooking up, as well as in the people who make up those groups.

And now you're knee-deep in EVE's comparatively unique brand of "living and breathing". Because here, both the good and the bad just hangs out. There is fame. There is infamy. There is an actual, tangible connection to the community that extends far beyond what conventional mmos offer. Star Wars Galaxies, as you mentioned, had a touch of this. The canvas of that game was painted with depth of mind and a love of freedom. Here, too, we have it. Only it's bigger. And we laugh louder. And we rage harder. And we get all up in each other's faces and each other's businesses. And we compete.

This environment has been constructed around the core concepts of mass coordination, group participation, the risk of significant loss, and the grandeur of deep space. So far, CCP has maintained and even built constructively upon the platform we log into when we fire EVE up. However, in terms of where we (as players) want the company to go, opinions have always been as firm and competitive as the rest of the game. In this instance, my opinion is that further developing avatar content (and ultimately maintaining and improving it) leads the game away from the aforementioned core features.



This is a great post. And I understand exactly what you mean until you get to the bolded underlined section. The difference between you and I is that I want an Avatar experience "that has been constructed around the core concepts of mass coordination, group participation, the risk of significant loss, and the grandeur of deep space" , and I am confident that CCP can achieve that.

At heart your objection seems to comes down to the fact that you don't think CCP can do it. But if you knew they could, would you support it?

Whilst the exploration prototype was being developed there was a lot of talk from CCP about creating Avatar content that was 'in theme' with Eve, that added content to space through it's existence and who's content was added to by space. Something that interacted with everything that Eve is in the same way that everything else in Eve does. And that's what I (and I like to think many others) want.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#673 - 2013-12-21 10:05:36 UTC
CCP should do it. And do it well enough that they don't have to revisit it for a year or so.
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#674 - 2013-12-21 11:25:58 UTC
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#675 - 2013-12-21 13:59:18 UTC
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.



Well said and lets hope, for those of us who want to see the game expand and attract more players and fresh complimentary content with the current, that CCP delivers!!

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#676 - 2013-12-21 14:56:24 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.



Well said and lets hope, for those of us who want to see the game expand and attract more players and fresh complimentary content with the current, that CCP delivers!!

They have this poster on the wall, to remind them about it (CCP delivers!!).

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
#677 - 2013-12-21 19:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Thellorms Nor'Fein
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe. An understandable concern, sure, but that's not really what people are asking for. They're asking CCP for content. Content that impacts Eve, that is fun, replayable, profitable, risky, variable and deap.

I think CCP can achieve that, and CCP seem to think so too. They are, after all, developing an Avatar game with those aims as we speak.


Yep, this... I haven't seen any good arguments as to why avatar content would really be the 'doom and gloom' of EVE Online. All anyone ever falls back to is what happened already and it's like you said (albeit different words) that it just wasn't done right. It's like a bad breakup or something. But using that same bad breakup as an example, anyone who's been through one and continued on in life knows it's something you pick yourself up from and just keep on going. It's never a good enough reason to throw in the towel and quit on it forever. If you do, you miss out on all the great opportunities life has to offer (I'm happily married, I KNOW this). Without a doubt, you'll make mistakes again, but you JUST... KEEP... GOING... and this is essentially where I feel CCP has fallen short. Incarna (rightfully) left a bad taste in their mouths, they made some serious mistakes. But now they are that broken hearted bitter individual when it comes to anything WiS, and as a result we're left with the Captains Quarters for years on end with no real updates to the content. Despite this, they've said that it's not completely over yet, so I hope this means that CCP is going to pick themselves up, brush off the experience (but LEARN from it!), and just keep going.

Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#678 - 2013-12-21 21:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhes
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe.

No, we're afraid that real Eve content will get ignored for another two years and the result will be even worse than the CQ. Based on the current status of DUST and WoD there is every reason to be fearful.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#679 - 2013-12-21 21:58:34 UTC
Thellorms Nor'Fein wrote:
Yep, this... I haven't seen any good arguments as to why avatar content would really be the 'doom and gloom' of EVE Online.



Yes, because there isn't any good argument against it; a proper developed WiS is an obvious "I win" option for EVE (both as gameplay extension as well as as market option). Was so 5 years ago and is still now. Trolls aside, we all know this and I think CCP knows this too.

So the real question is: "is actually CCP able to deliver a proper developed WiS?" This is an understandable and legitimate concern.

Someone think CCP is today too dumbass to deliver anything relevant, and if they try to do anything, beside minor tweaks for already solid part of the game then they will mess things and cause more damage than benefits.
This is an understandable point too.

Personally I prefer to think today they're unable to deliver not only only WiS but nothing relevant for EVE because they're focused on other titles, and for the future their money, and their resources, are more on new titles than on EVE.

So I think they could success in deliver a proper WiS if they bring resources allocated in the last years on Dust, Valkyrie, WoD and only God know what else, back on EVE.

And these resources and focus would benefit not only WiS part of EVE, but also other faild areas of the game still in need of massive iterations.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#680 - 2013-12-21 23:35:57 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
I think a great deal of people who think Avatar content is a bad idea think that on the basis that they believe anything CCP deliver in future will be like the CQ, pointless and devoid of content with no impact on the rest of the Eve universe.

No, we're afraid that real Eve content will get ignored for another two years and the result will be even worse than the CQ. Based on the current status of DUST and WoD there is every reason to be fearful.


This again Rhes? You realise this has been covered over and over. It's just bull **** plain and simple. Incarna wasn't the reason Eve was neglected for 18 months. If you've got any references or evidence I will be happy to concede, but you don't, and there is lots of evidence to the contrary. This is a terrible troll at best, and ignorance or stupidity at worst.