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Your ideas for isk sinks.

Author
Zeomebuch Nova
Undrinkable Grog Inc.
#101 - 2011-11-21 19:22:25 UTC
i have not seen a single idea to sink the massive amount of isk from truly ISK flooded wallets.
Almost everyone is aiming to destroy the low/middle class wallets, yet none even said a word about the meaningful isk holders.

i wonder way... oh wait, actually i do not.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2011-11-21 19:27:58 UTC
less isk, more lp rewards ;)
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#103 - 2011-11-21 19:38:53 UTC
-Give probes and drones a max lifespan, similar to mining crystals (that does not effect performance).

-Charge gate-usage tax based on system sec status. It would be nice to have 1.0 space be the highest tax, though I'm not sure how it would allow for newbies to move about. However if that was in place properly, it would be another draw to lower sec systems. Base the tax on goods in the cargohold and encourage smuggling by providing a way for people to hide cargo from customs scans (I'd like to say scans in general, but that's a touchy subject, and isn't mandatory for the smuggling aspect).

-Include hefty fines for being caught smuggling

-Set all refineries to 30% and then offer 50% as a premium price based on volume refined

Profit favors the prepared

Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#104 - 2011-11-21 19:39:55 UTC
This belongs in F&I...

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976

Skex Relbore
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2011-11-21 20:06:24 UTC
Zeomebuch Nova wrote:
i have not seen a single idea to sink the massive amount of isk from truly ISK flooded wallets.
Almost everyone is aiming to destroy the low/middle class wallets, yet none even said a word about the meaningful isk holders.

i wonder way... oh wait, actually i do not.


If there was any actual inflation that problem would resolve itself. The very fact that people are hoarding isk is indicative of the lack of inflation.

The reason is that inflation is a devaluation of a currency, If there was isk inflation then the ISK squirreled away in thees peoples wallets would be losing value and you'd either reach the point where their wealth ceased to be wealth or they'd put their isk back to work.

This is a large part of the problem with the real world economy. Right now as my companies CEO said back at the beginning of the bust "cash is king" so you have all these companies sitting on large piles of cash rather than investing it, get some inflation going however and that would change, suddenly that cash would be losing value while sitting idle and that would act as an incentive to get it to work.

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#106 - 2011-11-21 20:54:01 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
This belongs in F&I...


Given the tone of what's been happening lately with CCPs change in direction, the threads in GD about the new features and where eve is going of late, and the fact that this is a pretty significant economic concern that's been a problem for a while, I think CCP will be giving a little more lateral on your point with regards to this thread.

I think this is one of the most significant concerns with regards to the longevity of EvE. We don't want New Eden to end up like Greece, do we?

Zing!

Just kidding Greece! We wish you the best...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#107 - 2011-11-21 21:50:37 UTC
I really don't understand how anyone can say that blowing up ships is not an ISK sink.
And more specifically, war is one of the biggest reducers of wealth in the game.

I will accept that when an insured ship gets blown up, at that precise moment, the loss of that ship is a net injector of ISK into the game.

But the people who are arguing that ship losses are an ISK faucet are looking at ISK with a flawed view.

What ISK truly represents is a perceived value of TIME, gametime to be precise.
When something is blown up, those minerals have to be remined. The modules that did not survive have to be reconstructed, and in most cases, the raw materials have to be harvested.

Whether it is a bot or a human harvesting the raw material, TIME must be burned up to replace that lost ship/module/POS.
That time has an opportunity cost attached to it. That is the loss of wealth in the game.

Look at it from a very simple model. Assume that the PvP'er replaces all his losses with his own industrial alt
The opportunity cost = what the indy alt could have accrued in wealth in the time spent gathering those resources/hauling those resources/refining those resources/building the replacement parts/hauling the replacement parts his PvP alt.

And to take it one step further, a massive war can truly reduce wealth creation in the game because instead of spending time grinding ISK in high sec/low sec/null sec, that person is sitting in a fleet earning nothing. When an alliance wide CTA is called and 800-1000 null sec players are not grinding sites or mining, that is one heluva reduction on the ISK faucets in the game.

PvP, especially wars, are indeed the greatest wealth sink in the game, which eventually translates into ISK.
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#108 - 2011-11-21 21:54:46 UTC
Destructible NEX store items




CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2011-11-21 21:57:01 UTC
The ability to put bounties on players, even if they have a positive security standing....
Have you ever been pissed that one guy always keeps underbidding your market orders by 0,01 ISK?
Put bounties on the heads of your bothersome competitors, just for the fun of it......

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#110 - 2011-11-21 22:57:12 UTC
Let people use ISK to buy Aurum.

(now ducking out to avoid the flames....)


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2011-11-21 23:10:36 UTC
As a few others have said:

Many of these proposed changes would harm the newest players and do relatively nothing to the old rich folk. Even if isk sinks get put in place that cause the rich industrialists and CEO's to throw away isk, there is risk that the change is too great and they begin to lose money for pushing goods into the market. The market then stagnates, prices shoot through the roof, and we get the same situation everyone is afraid of. On the flip side new taxes could be put in place that do nothing but slightly slow the increasing wallet size.

What everyone has to consider is that Eve doesn't behave like real life in terms of inflation. In real life we have a finite money supply, and inflation kicks in when we print more money to reflect the devaluation of the currency. By contrast in Eve, we have an infinite money supply with no foreign currency to measure ours against. The only measure of the value of isk is the time invested in acquiring that isk. Inflation becomes a non issue because the 99% control the value of almost every market good by determining how much time they're willing to invest to acquire that good. Industrialists want their goods to sell and so they quickly find the equilibrium between cost in time and quantity purchased, assuming a minimal amount of competition to drive prices to a reasonable level. In this way increasing isk does not create inflation as long as the methods of attaining said isk continue to remain stable. The only controlling factor in EVE inflation is the efficiency of common isk printing techniques.
Jahso Kuhl
United Space Corp with Honorable Intersts
#112 - 2011-11-22 14:32:25 UTC
I really wonder: what is the matter with you?

where in hell is that inflation you are babbling about?


@Dinsdale Pirannha
Quote:
What ISK truly represents is a perceived value of TIME, gametime to be precise.


i do not agree with that completely, but since we measure some aktivities with the [ISK per h] unit it may be some truth in that view.
what is 1h play(eve-work) time worth?
a newbie will gladly work for 10 M ISK / h.
an oldie will rather idle somewhere than work for less than 100 M ISK / h.

so in fact there is no inflation at all, old players just perceive the inflation of percieved value of TIME.
But the market prices do not reflect that.
how long does it take to mine Tritanium worth 100 M ISK and ship it to a tradehub?


i think the big reason for all the complaining is the loss in value of ISK in relation to real money.
and that is inevitable, since eve-money is growing at a different rate as the real world request for ISK does.
Carceret Rinah
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2011-11-22 15:04:48 UTC
Massive ISK sinks will just cause massive deflation, making the ISK-hoarders' money go even farther - and with no planned end to the deflationary action, this may encourage more ISK generation and hoarding.

Reducing ISK in the economy is more easily addressed by reducing the ISK faucets like rat bounties and mission rewards. The question to ask first is what game performance objective is met by reducing the supply of ISK? As long as most players see their incomes rise along with the cost of goods and services, and they continue to have fun and desire to earn ISK, what is the problem exactly?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#114 - 2011-11-22 20:00:21 UTC
Generally when people are talking about inflation in eve, they are talking about the PLEX and high end faction, deadspace, or officer items.

Things that could be changed to lower the faucets and increase sinks:

If someone with a GCC destroys a ship, the insurance payout for the destroyed ship does not come from the game but the player who fires the final blow. (No ISK? CONCORD takes it from you pilot's license time, 15 million per day).

Incursion isk can be reduced by changing the victory conditions to "all ships must be destroyed".

Rat bounties could be a mix of isk and LP. Along with a beefing up of the LP stores, this would reduce a faucet and boost a sink as the LP store is a major sink.

POS anchoring rights can be bought by corps with low standings.

Those with low security status can choose to accept lower bounties and higher sec status gains.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#115 - 2011-11-22 20:00:33 UTC
Generally when people are talking about inflation in eve, they are talking about the PLEX and high end faction, deadspace, or officer items.

Things that could be changed to lower the faucets and increase sinks:

If someone with a GCC destroys a ship, the insurance payout for the destroyed ship does not come from the game but the player who fires the final blow. (No ISK? CONCORD takes it from you pilot's license time, 15 million per day).

Incursion isk can be reduced by changing the victory conditions to "all ships must be destroyed".

Rat bounties could be a mix of isk and LP. Along with a beefing up of the LP stores, this would reduce a faucet and boost a sink as the LP store is a major sink.

POS anchoring rights can be bought by corps with low standings.

Those with low security status can choose to accept lower bounties and higher sec status gains.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#116 - 2011-11-22 20:13:14 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
This belongs in F&I...


F&I, where threads go to die.
XY Zed
#117 - 2011-11-22 20:14:02 UTC
Everytime you make a bad forum post you lose ISK... lol
Feilamya
#118 - 2011-11-22 20:18:28 UTC
Give all your ISK to me. I promise to solve all of your inflation problems.

ISK is a raw material, stupid!
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#119 - 2011-11-22 20:20:00 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I really don't understand how anyone can say that blowing up ships is not an ISK sink.
And more specifically, war is one of the biggest reducers of wealth in the game.


Because unless you buy your ship from an NPC corporation, getting blown up is not an isk sink at all. In fact since you get an insurance payout, getting blown up is an isk faucet. But that's ok, if economic concepts and numbers make your head hurt, keep hitting F1, F2, F3 and tell everyone what a 'leet piwate you are.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2011-11-22 20:38:23 UTC
random self destruction of any ship at random time without insurance pay-out.