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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Miss President
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
#1181 - 2011-11-20 02:38:57 UTC
what happened to removing Tech II missile penalties?
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#1182 - 2011-11-20 04:38:38 UTC
One question to ccp. Haw gallente was able to won a war with calldari ??
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#1183 - 2011-11-20 10:10:21 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
One question to ccp. Haw gallente was able to won a war with calldari ??


Even then the drones kicked the Caldari back home not the hybrid guns, just saying.

It was the master plan to trick the Caldari into using the inferior hybrid weapon systems, unfortunately we failed to develop a better one and got stuck with it too.

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !
Hungry Ghost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1184 - 2011-11-20 13:14:33 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
One question to ccp. Haw gallente was able to won a war with calldari ??

One side got wyvern and leviathan and the other nyx and erebus. What do you expect?
Explosivesonhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1185 - 2011-11-21 08:27:29 UTC
As much as I agree with the fact that these hybrid weapon bonuses are too little, too late; the biggest problem remains the ships they are fitted on. Many Gallente ships in particular. For specializing in close range fighting, Gallente ships are terribly slow. Not so much with their base speed as with their acceleration. Being armor based, most of these ships end up being less agile than all of their class counterparts save for Amarr ships. Gallete ships simply aren't fast enough. Instead of toying with base speed and a paltry 5% agility buff, go for an all agility increase on Gallente hybrid boats (all of them). Something that really lets them get up to max speed and get in someones face.

This makes perfect sense for a robust, technologically advanced ship that is still weighted with armor. Lower max speed but still good acceleration. 5% agility bonus simply isn't enough.
Petra Sparkle
Dark Eternity.
#1186 - 2011-11-21 20:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Sparkle
Gallente still suck in PVP, still too slow and not agile enough. I hate having to fly my none racial ships, I die to anything other than sh*t fit ships. and I'm tired of being laughed at in small gangs if i bring one.

tried out on SISI and it's still the same if you fit them as they are suposed to be fitted ( ie using stuff a Gallente is suposed to be fitted with)
Rails still suck , low damage and low range compared to other guns, Blasters still broken I've never managed to use them in solo pvp ships either kite or run away every time.

The ships are still far too slow/not agile enough for the roles they are suposed to play.

The Catalyst is the only thing that might work I can see it taking over from the thrasher in small wolfpacks after Crucible

Thorax, Brutix and Domi all need a far bigger boost to bring them into line with other races. The Nemisis needs a big boost of some kind to stop it being the worst SB by far.

If you can give SB's a bit of love after the pilots complained about their I WIN button surely you can throw us lesser beings a bit more of a bone
Malus Rimor
Perkone
Caldari State
#1187 - 2011-11-22 00:40:57 UTC
Petra Sparkle wrote:

The ships are still far too slow/not agile enough for the roles they are suposed to play.


Agreed.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#1188 - 2011-11-22 00:56:01 UTC
Malus Rimor wrote:
Petra Sparkle wrote:

The ships are still far too slow/not agile enough for the roles they are suposed to play.


Agreed.


Agree.

I am maxx skilled on Caldari, Winmatar, and Amarr. I am a few days away from being max skilled on Gallente. I still see no reason to fly Gallente ships. I will probably buy a few hulls for spinning, and switch back to Winmatar for PvP.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#1189 - 2011-11-22 04:25:43 UTC
Do something with that ccp cant you see that ppl are really pissed ?? Yoo Soundwave think a little bit more about whole game not minis Or maybe you should switch your character to gallente to show gallente players some respect coz they was waiting too long huh ?? Nice idea ??? Ccp changed Or not ??
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#1190 - 2011-11-22 07:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Do something with that ccp cant you see that ppl are really pissed ?? Yoo Soundwave think a little bit more about whole game not minis Or maybe you should switch your character to gallente to show gallente players some respect coz they was waiting too long huh ?? Nice idea ??? Ccp changed Or not ??



Well me personly think it's Impossable to Realy fix Hybirds with out stepping on the toe's of Projectiles and Lazers.

Not to say that this changes dont help most importantly the tracking/dmg and reduced ammo reload times and also some of the fitting problems as well.

But the Tech 2 changes boosted all equaly as it should have too.

Now it's time to fix BS Missiles and there BS platforms and Rework some of the Gallente fleet over into drone boats and to raise drone dps to that of there Projectile and Lazer counter parts on Drone boats only.

That way Caldari and Gallente BS can start geting in on major fleet fights again.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#1191 - 2011-11-22 07:31:53 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
One question to ccp. Haw gallente was able to won a war with calldari ??


How is babby formed? How girl get pregnent?
Senlia Hucel-Ge
NoobsUnited
#1192 - 2011-11-22 07:41:06 UTC
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1193 - 2011-11-22 19:08:58 UTC
Lack of any feed back from CCP is rather depressing.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1194 - 2011-11-22 19:30:35 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
How girl get pregnent?


Send me your sister I'll show you Lol

Ho we're talking about fake hybrids? -talos still sucks, and hard.

Naga is a really awesome sniper platform but dps is...meh

Sniper naga
Target Tornado: 140km - you need a few Nagas to one shot that one

Sniper talos
Target Tornado: 140km you really need a lot of those (terrible dps compared with naga rails)

Sniper Oracle
Target Tornado: 140km, outch ! -almost one shot

Sniper Tornado
Target Tornado: 140km - one shot

Sniper Machariel
Target Talos: one shot (most of)
Target Naga: one shot (most of)
Target: Tornado: 2 shot (some one shot)
Target Oracle: almost 3 shot (none one shot but several 2 shots)

Tornado wins -cheap throw away sniper platform
Machariel wins - expensive but really awesome.
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1195 - 2011-11-22 19:52:25 UTC
I guess the changes are final, In 6 months at the next expansion after people still don't use hybrids much in PvP I hope CCP dont take too much offence when most of the player base say we told you so.
My only fear is that even after this period when it is obvious that Hybrids are still the weakest weapon platform in the game it will take another 3 years for them to be looked at agan.

I still love how Projectiles have the best tracking in most classes of short range weapons so even if a Galle ship manages to charge to point blank range the Mini will still be hitting better.

We cant get out of their range because they are faster and we cant get under their guns because they still in most cases have better tracking.(Unless on specific Galle boats with tracking bonuses). Guess all that's left is to not play Galle.

Out of curiosity, what is the character break down of the CCP staff. you dont by any chance mostly use Mini or Amarr do you. Was this a chicken or egg situation. Are you mostly Mini/Amarr because you know these races are the more powerful OR are these races more powerful because you mostly use Mini/Amarr and subconciously(hopefully) made these races the best.
Malefaktor
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
#1196 - 2011-11-22 20:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Malefaktor
First, I'd like to thank CCP for attempting to rebalance hybrid weapons and (to some extent) Gallente ships. That said, I agree with many have said here: The main problem with blasters is that the hulls that bonus them (Gallente boats primarily) are *too slow* to actually bring those weapons to bear.

The main issue is how Gallente ships stack up against Minmatar ships, the primary small gang PVP choice today. A Minmatar ship is fast enough that it easily kite a blaster boat outside of web range and then rain down unanswered firepower with it's 20km range AC's. If things go badly, the Minmi ship simply flies away.

Gallente ships lack an antidote to that situation, and I expect these changes will do little to fix do that.


Idea IMO what Gallente ships really need is a *modest* +20% web range bonus (and maybe web strength bonus also). With a web range of 12km, this would make make it more RISKY for a Miinmatar ship to kite a Gally boat, but not impossible. It would also mean that Gallente ships could overheat their webs to 14.4km which would be even more scary for a Minmatar ship, but still not impossible to escape.

Idea A web bonus would also fit neatly with the traditional tackling role for which Gallente ships were once famous. Just a thought...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1197 - 2011-11-23 01:34:40 UTC
Malefaktor wrote:
First, I'd like to thank CCP for attempting to rebalance hybrid weapons and (to some extent) Gallente ships. That said, I agree with many have said here: The main problem with blasters is that the hulls that bonus them (Gallente boats primarily) are *too slow* to actually bring those weapons to bear.

The main issue is how Gallente ships stack up against Minmatar ships, the primary small gang PVP choice today. A Minmatar ship is fast enough that it easily kite a blaster boat outside of web range and then rain down unanswered firepower with it's 20km range AC's. If things go badly, the Minmi ship simply flies away.

Gallente ships lack an antidote to that situation, and I expect these changes will do little to fix do that.


Idea IMO what Gallente ships really need is a *modest* +20% web range bonus (and maybe web strength bonus also). With a web range of 12km, this would make make it more RISKY for a Miinmatar ship to kite a Gally boat, but not impossible. It would also mean that Gallente ships could overheat their webs to 14.4km which would be even more scary for a Minmatar ship, but still not impossible to escape.

Idea A web bonus would also fit neatly with the traditional tackling role for which Gallente ships were once famous. Just a thought...



Has long has you can keep your target over/at max disruptor range and you can apply decent dmg while your target scratches you from time to time, the kitting ship will always win unless you make big piloting mistakes.
Kitting games are the easier, you don't need to have the biggest dps, just takes some time but you'll always kill your target if you don't let it come or he doesn't have any tool over you to get in closer.



Nice stuff.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1198 - 2011-11-23 02:41:47 UTC
As long winmatar stays winmatar I approve any lollente boost you make.
It is good to be OP :)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1199 - 2011-11-23 11:48:32 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
As long winmatar stays winmatar I approve any lollente boost you make.
It is good to be OP :)


Then maybe nerf all other 3 races if you're leaving Gallente the same, problem solved and will cause lots of tears from non Gallenteans also ;)
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Malefaktor
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
#1200 - 2011-11-23 11:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Malefaktor
Tanya Powers wrote:

Has long has you can keep your target over/at max disruptor range and you can apply decent dmg while your target scratches you from time to time, the kitting ship will always win unless you make big piloting mistakes.
Kitting games are the easier, you don't need to have the biggest dps, just takes some time but you'll always kill your target if you don't let it come or he doesn't have any tool over you to get in closer.



Nice stuff.



Couple things there: First of all you're right. If the kiting pilot makes no mistakes then they will win eventually.

BUT a longer web range for the gallente would:

1) force the kiting ship farther out, which means less DPS with autocannons and more TTK on the gallente ship. That means more time to crawl to a gate, more time to redock, more time to wait for the cavalry to arrive, etc.

2) it would also give the kiting pilot much less room for mistakes if the gallente pilot tries anything fancy.


On that last point: the classic way to shake a kiting pilot is to fly away from them full speed and then suddenly whip back towards them while overheating your MWD. If the slower ship has a 12km range on its web (14.4km with heat) instead of just 10km, there's a lot less room for mistakes on the part of the kiting pilot.


Finally, a web bonus would actually give Gallente ships a military doctrine that sort of works. Use fast frigates to web targets from 11-12km and then move in with heavier blaster boats (Thorax, Brutix, Hyperion, etc.) to finish them off.